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Larssen
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+4|232
All of Northern Europe has protestant roots. Maybe it's not the religion.

@Dilbert, replace the word 'the jews' with 'the blacks' or 'the whites' and ask yourself, "do I sound like a racist?".

Last edited by Larssen (2019-09-16 06:19:26)

SuperJail Warden
Member
+196|2064
European Protestant churches are tied to the states correct? Major difference from "anyone can open a church" American Protestantism.
uziq
Member
+168|1797
no, they're not tied to the state. the only time a protestant church ever directly aligned itself with the power of the state was the church of england. there are dozens of denominations in places like scandinavia and the netherlands that have nothing to do with the 'official' state apparatus.

where do you think the multitude of protestant denominations and faiths came from in the first place? i guess all those dutch and german immigrants got their church-founding fervour from the new world. there's an old joke in the netherlands: get two people together and they'll soon form a sect; introduce a third, and they'll have a schism.

protestantism formed in opposition to centralised, state-aligned, worldly powers, remember?

Last edited by uziq (2019-09-16 06:28:37)

Larssen
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+4|232

SuperJail Warden wrote:

European Protestant churches are tied to the states correct? Major difference from "anyone can open a church" American Protestantism.
The fuck? Did you buy  that degree in a supermarket? There's no way you were taught history and skipped the reformation.
uziq
Member
+168|1797
the reformation was quite literally a movement across all of northern europe in which 'anyone could open a church' or, better yet, opt for forms of congregation in which there was direct access to god without need of an episcopal structure or prelate. lol hot take macbeth.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,966|3702|London, England
Macbeth playing the role of conservative catholic on this board is priceless. Next he's going to start railing against Vatican II.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Member
+196|2064
Norway, Denmark, and England all have official state churches. That's already over half of northern Europe.
uziq
Member
+168|1797
what? denmark and norway are two of the least populated countries in northern europe, and are very far on the peripheries of political, economic, and cultural power. to claim that northern europe is characterised by state-aligned protestant churches is ignorant in the extreme. there are 6 million people in denmark, 62.9% of whom identify as protestant. there are about 5 million people in norway, 70% of whom identify as lutheran. how are you gonna say that swings 'half of northern europe' into state-aligned protestant religion? VERY fucking hot take, macbeth. belgium alone has about as many catholics as those countries have protestants.

you'd think when discussing northern europe and protestantism that you'd pay most attention to germany, you know, the birth-place of the reformation and the main power in northern europe by an order of magnitude. a country of 83 million people, not 6 million protestants in denmark and norway.

as i said in my original post, the only really explicitly political protestant church in europe was the church of england, aka anglicanism, which is now one of the mildest and least worshipful/observant religions in the world. most fucking british people are classed as 'church of england' on their birth certificate and only ever trouble a church for baptisms, weddings and funerals. it is basically secular christianity and not at all comparable to american protestant churches with active congregations.

Last edited by uziq (2019-09-16 08:06:13)

SuperJail Warden
Member
+196|2064

Larssen wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

European Protestant churches are tied to the states correct? Major difference from "anyone can open a church" American Protestantism.
The fuck? Did you buy  that degree in a supermarket? There's no way you were taught history and skipped the reformation.
Aren't you European?

The Protestant countries very often set up official state churches and chose their denomination of Christianity as the official state religion. Only in the last 50ish years have state churches gotten their Independence. I learned this during the history degree I got at a super market.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Sweden
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Scotland
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangel … of_Finland

That is on top of the churches of England, Denmark, and Norway still being a part of the state.

Yes, you are right about the church of England. It's only on birth certificates, an important family event when you are born, an important family event when you die, an important family event when you chose a life partner, part of your government, and you pay taxes to it. It hardly exist otherwise

Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2019-09-16 08:23:14)

SuperJail Warden
Member
+196|2064
People like Larssen who say "have you read a book" or "is your degree fake" when displaying on base level knowledge of something is annoying. I bet if we went back to 2007 he would be one of the posters unironically saying "Islam is a religion of Peace".
uziq
Member
+168|1797

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Yes, you are right about the church of England. It's only on birth certificates, an important family event when you are born, an important family event when you die, an important family event when you chose a life partner, part of your government, and you pay taxes to it. It hardly exist otherwise
i don't know if you're being really sarcastic here, but the last time i checked, religion was about faith and a moral code, not family occasions and signing pieces of paper according to tradition. to claim that the protestant church is an important part of public life in england just because people still get married and have funerals is ignorance bordering on farce. the country with the 'most powerful political church' in europe is also its most secular and atheistic. nobody pays taxes to the church here.

Last edited by uziq (2019-09-16 08:32:07)

Larssen
Post limited. Contact Admin to Be Promoted.
+4|232

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Larssen wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

European Protestant churches are tied to the states correct? Major difference from "anyone can open a church" American Protestantism.
The fuck? Did you buy  that degree in a supermarket? There's no way you were taught history and skipped the reformation.
Aren't you European?

The Protestant countries very often set up official state churches and chose their denomination of Christianity as the official state religion. Only in the last 50ish years have state churches gotten their Independence. I learned this during the history degree I got at a super market.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Sweden
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Scotland
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangel … of_Finland

That is on top of the churches of England, Denmark, and Norway still being a part of the state.

Yes, you are right about the church of England. It's only on birth certificates, an important family event when you are born, an important family event when you die, an important family event when you chose a life partner, part of your government, and you pay taxes to it. It hardly exist otherwise
And I'll respond again with 'read a book' because you seem completely oblivious as to what the reformation and protestantism were all about. The separation of church and state was invented in the writings of martin luther and codified into law in almost all (if not all) predominantly protestant countries. Where there is a 'national church' you will see that the powers and authority of the clergy and the monarchy or whatever authority there was are separated, sometimes very strictly. Much of the conflict at the time was over the notion that religious and political figures should not cross over into eachother's domain, as in catholic Europe you'd see bishops and cardinals hold formal political power alongside their religious duties and vice versa. Moreover, while there is a formalised church and christianity remained the state religion in some nations, the very concept of protestantism demanded a significant reduction in power over religious matters on the part of the clergy as well. All latin texts were translated into local language, people were encourged to learn to read and to study the bible themselves rather than simply sit and listen to the sermons of the priests.

Oh, and the fighting over all of this started and ended some of the worst wars Europe has seen (esp. the 30 years war) all culminating in the peace of westphalia, producing some of the most important legal texts in history that remain relevant today.

I'll let you in on a little secret: I actually know these things because I hold an undergraduate in history and a postgrad in the history of international relations. So yah, read a book. Going by everything you've written I'll say that whatever degree you may hold it sure as shit isn't in history.

Last edited by Larssen (2019-09-16 09:43:09)

SuperJail Warden
Member
+196|2064

Larssen wrote:

mmmf mmmf mmmf
Anyway, Uzique, those cultural events are important. If they weren't important then Jewish groups wouldn't sue to make us stop saying Christmas. We can't even put Christmas trees up without people complaining and we have to use the phrase "winter break" and "spring break" instead of "Christmas break" and "Easter break".
uziq
Member
+168|1797
where is the widespread demand for the word christmas to be banned? this is literally tabloid cant and indignation, not reality. get fucking real. just because some fringe campaigning organisation makes a plea for something, doesn't mean there's an international conspiracy to strip western civilisation of christmas. most muslims and jews living in the west could not give a toss. you are being dishonest.

and i'm sure the majority of campaigning and school regulation rewriting in that vein comes from over-zealous and 'on message' white christian liberals.

Last edited by uziq (2019-09-16 10:15:54)

SuperJail Warden
Member
+196|2064
Nope, I have seen it first-hand. We had to take down a Christmas tree at my old school because someone complained. All public schools says Winter break because they can't give time off to celebrate the majority religion's event without having to also provide a Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Ramadan, Chinese New year, and whatever else day.

The CEO of Starbucks, Howard Schultz, is Jewish.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,966|3702|London, England
Y'all getting trolled hard
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Member
+196|2064
Is it any surprise that the CEO of the company that refuses to put a Christmas tree on a cup of Jewish?

Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2019-09-16 12:01:27)

Larssen
Post limited. Contact Admin to Be Promoted.
+4|232
you're pathetic
SuperJail Warden
Member
+196|2064
I am going to be pretty upset if Justin T loses the election in Canada because he played dress up back in 2001. At least he was dressed as a man.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,748|5116|USA

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Is it any surprise that the CEO of the company that refuses to put a Christmas tree on a cup of Jewish?
https://www.shautolease.nl/2019-starbuc … -cups.html

Nobody in their right mind would have a hard time identifying Christmas-sy designs on these cups. This far-reaching Christmas tree controversy is just another fake complaint in the fake war on Christmas championed by trolls and the unfortunates who take them seriously. Christmas infests so many months commercially it's not even funny. I'm already seeing displays and it's not even October yet. Can't you just tell that Christmas is losing?

I thought the plain red cups with the company logo were far less tacky than something that looked like wrapping paper. Seems a weird thing for people to focus on when the coffee itself is average at best.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,792|4976|949

i remember one time when i was really young i made Christmas cards on some computer program and I couldn't fit the word "Christmas" so I put "X-Mas" and my dad yelled at me for "taking Christ out of Christmas". OK, dad.

I still send him lumps of coal for that.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+196|2064
Oh man I remember those Windows 98 programs where you can design cards and stuff.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,748|5116|USA

All about those clip-art collections you could buy at Costco and hardly ever use.

@ken That could be bundled with most safe, bland cards you can find: "Happy Winter Holiday," and "Season's Greetings!" Or maybe a postcard with the Space Needle on it.

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