SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690

Dilbert_X wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Was thinking how cool it would be if we had bullet trains in the U.S.
Hard luck, only socialist countries have useful things which take forward planning for the common benefit like that.
It is truly a miracle that we ever built an interstate highway system here. Could have saved so much money for job creators.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5329|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Was thinking how cool it would be if we had bullet trains in the U.S.
Hard luck, only socialist countries have useful things which take forward planning for the common benefit like that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690
Elon Musk needs to prevent Tesla from going bankrupt before he can tackle public transportation.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Was thinking how cool it would be if we had bullet trains in the U.S.
Hard luck, only socialist countries have useful things which take forward planning for the common benefit like that.
It is truly a miracle that we ever built an interstate highway system here. Could have saved so much money for job creators.
That was copied from Nazi Germany and a spillover from WW2 socialist central planning.

Jay wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop
A short hop single-point to single-point line is totally comparable with a mational network.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5329|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:


Hard luck, only socialist countries have useful things which take forward planning for the common benefit like that.
It is truly a miracle that we ever built an interstate highway system here. Could have saved so much money for job creators.
That was copied from Nazi Germany and a spillover from WW2 socialist central planning.

Jay wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop
A short hop single-point to single-point line is totally comparable with a mational network.
The plan is to connect Los Angeles to Chicago and New York
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+682|6261|Washington St.

Dilbert_X wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:


Hard luck, only socialist countries have useful things which take forward planning for the common benefit like that.
It is truly a miracle that we ever built an interstate highway system here. Could have saved so much money for job creators.
That was copied from Nazi Germany and a spillover from WW2 socialist central planning.
That fucking fascist copied US! He knew we had a good thing going and couldn't come up with anything new for himself.
Except that whole kill-all-jews thing.
_j5689_
Dreads & Bergers
+364|6687|Riva, MD

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Elon Musk needs to prevent Tesla from going bankrupt before he can tackle public transportation.
Is it in danger now?  Those preorders look pretty healthy: http://www.teslamodel3fan.com/pre-order/
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690
Tesla has been losing money for the last 3 years. The value of its stock keeps dropping. They keep missing deadlines for their vehicles and those pre-orders are just down payments for cars that aren't going to be produced until the end of 2017.

The reason I am so skeptical of Tesla is that they need to do a lot of expanding to keep afloat before another company comes out with an electric vehicle that catches on with the public at a nice price. Tesla produced 125,000 cars in the last 8 years. 60 million cars were produced in 2011 and the number is rising every year. They don't have the productive capability to beat a big brand like BMW or Toyota if those groups decided to go big with electric vehicles. Toyota made 9 million cars last year alone. Chevy sold 100,000 plug in hybrid volts in a shorter time frame.

And there is more to being a brand than just making and selling the cars. They need to have places that service, and maintain their cars on top of just selling them. That means they need to buy buildings, equipment, and train people to know how to work on their cars. That takes a tremendous amount of money and time.

I don't see how they can do this with their stock dropping and them losing money every year.





do not recommend
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Pocshy2.0
Member
+23|3341

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Tesla has been losing money for the last 3 years. The value of its stock keeps dropping. They keep missing deadlines for their vehicles and those pre-orders are just down payments for cars that aren't going to be produced until the end of 2017.

The reason I am so skeptical of Tesla is that they need to do a lot of expanding to keep afloat before another company comes out with an electric vehicle that catches on with the public at a nice price. Tesla produced 125,000 cars in the last 8 years. 60 million cars were produced in 2011 and the number is rising every year. They don't have the productive capability to beat a big brand like BMW or Toyota if those groups decided to go big with electric vehicles. Toyota made 9 million cars last year alone. Chevy sold 100,000 plug in hybrid volts in a shorter time frame.

And there is more to being a brand than just making and selling the cars. They need to have places that service, and maintain their cars on top of just selling them. That means they need to buy buildings, equipment, and train people to know how to work on their cars. That takes a tremendous amount of money and time.

I don't see how they can do this with their stock dropping and them losing money every year.





do not recommend
I mean, I agree with most of this, but I think the thing that Tesla will always have on its side is having been first-to-market (or perceived to be). I doubt they're ever going to be more than a rather niche luxury brand that sells more than 100,000 cars a year. You're right in saying that GM, Ford, Toyota, or one of the other big manufacturers is going to dwarf their scale and importance.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

I thought the year end stock prices for Tesla have been increasing all this time. I've read things like the WSJ whine article about crowded charging stations that referenced super-busy locations like ones exploited by cab companies, but everyone I've talked to said they're really not that bad in general.

Why would crowded charging stations even be a bad sign? I'd be more worried for Tesla if nobody was using them. I'm a cheapskate when it comes to buying vehicles though, so I won't be going for a $35,000 Model 3 "priced for the masses" any time soon.
What about the Gigafactory?
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I thought the year end stock prices for Tesla have been increasing all this time. I've read things like the WSJ whine article about crowded charging stations that referenced super-busy locations like ones exploited by cab companies, but everyone I've talked to said they're really not that bad in general.

Why would crowded charging stations even be a bad sign? I'd be more worried for Tesla if nobody was using them. I'm a cheapskate when it comes to buying vehicles though, so I won't be going for a $35,000 Model 3 "priced for the masses" any time soon.
The stock is at $214 compared to it's peak of $280 last July. It cratered to $151 in February.

The crowded charging station may be a sign of there being a lack of stations rather than there being too many cars. They have 10 stations in NJ. They are all single connector stations that belong to restaurants and hotels.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6687

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Tesla has been losing money for the last 3 years. The value of its stock keeps dropping. They keep missing deadlines for their vehicles and those pre-orders are just down payments for cars that aren't going to be produced until the end of 2017.

The reason I am so skeptical of Tesla is that they need to do a lot of expanding to keep afloat before another company comes out with an electric vehicle that catches on with the public at a nice price. Tesla produced 125,000 cars in the last 8 years. 60 million cars were produced in 2011 and the number is rising every year. They don't have the productive capability to beat a big brand like BMW or Toyota if those groups decided to go big with electric vehicles. Toyota made 9 million cars last year alone. Chevy sold 100,000 plug in hybrid volts in a shorter time frame.

And there is more to being a brand than just making and selling the cars. They need to have places that service, and maintain their cars on top of just selling them. That means they need to buy buildings, equipment, and train people to know how to work on their cars. That takes a tremendous amount of money and time.

I don't see how they can do this with their stock dropping and them losing money every year.





do not recommend
Their share is on the 'inflated' scale when you compare to other car companies.

Their stocks dipped in feb but now it's back up due to the tesla 3 announcement.

No other new car company has come out hitting heavy like Tesla. They played the smart game by selling high priced luxury vehicles first and THEN go cheap. Toyota fucked up on the hybrid with the prius when it was essentially sold at a lost.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690

Cybargs wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Tesla has been losing money for the last 3 years. The value of its stock keeps dropping. They keep missing deadlines for their vehicles and those pre-orders are just down payments for cars that aren't going to be produced until the end of 2017.

The reason I am so skeptical of Tesla is that they need to do a lot of expanding to keep afloat before another company comes out with an electric vehicle that catches on with the public at a nice price. Tesla produced 125,000 cars in the last 8 years. 60 million cars were produced in 2011 and the number is rising every year. They don't have the productive capability to beat a big brand like BMW or Toyota if those groups decided to go big with electric vehicles. Toyota made 9 million cars last year alone. Chevy sold 100,000 plug in hybrid volts in a shorter time frame.

And there is more to being a brand than just making and selling the cars. They need to have places that service, and maintain their cars on top of just selling them. That means they need to buy buildings, equipment, and train people to know how to work on their cars. That takes a tremendous amount of money and time.

I don't see how they can do this with their stock dropping and them losing money every year.





do not recommend
Their share is on the 'inflated' scale when you compare to other car companies.

Their stocks dipped in feb but now it's back up due to the tesla 3 announcement.

No other new car company has come out hitting heavy like Tesla. They played the smart game by selling high priced luxury vehicles first and THEN go cheap. Toyota fucked up on the hybrid with the prius when it was essentially sold at a lost.
Their value and amount of attention they get is the thing on the inflated scale. They aren't even in the top 30 car makers in the world. A Russian brand put out 5 times as many cars last year than Tesla has ever made in total.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotiv … nufacturer

They played the smart game by selling high priced luxury vehicles first and THEN go cheap.
They haven't produced any Tesla 3. THEY HAVE NOT MADE ANY TESLA 3s. They plan to start making them at the end of the 2017.

Tesla is just blowing through capital with little to show for it.

Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2016-05-08 16:28:53)

https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6687
lol wah? I was merely speaking about corporate strategy.

I know they haven't produced any tesla 3s, but it was their entire plan to hit the upper market and then hit the lower market.

sheer volume isn't everything. Are you going to say some random russian car manufacturer is better than a rolls royce because they sell more models?

Large manufacturing requires huge amount of capital before you even sell much. Why do you think it takes airlines to sell over 1000 units to just break even? the economy of scale is HUGE for automotive.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690
My point is that they have to put in a lot of investment and make a lot of growth off the back of a product that any car maker can make. They are banking on selling a lot of Tesla 3s which they aren't even going to make until 2017 at the earliest. Toyota with their decades of infrastructure and massive global size is one good electric car away from completely eclipsing Tesla. Not only in popularity and attention but by massive production quantity. And there is a dozen car makers who could do the same.

I'm not even going to go into all the issues regarding Tesla 3. Lower market? lol
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6381|'Murka

They have the branding--Cybargs nailed that one. What they lack is infrastructure--both production and sustainment. It's actually pretty smart for them to continue at lower volume while the network of chargers is still growing. If volume were to outstrip network, they would have an image problem. If network outstripped volume, they would have excess capacity/idle capital.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

SuperJail Warden wrote:

The crowded charging station may be a sign of there being a lack of stations rather than there being too many cars. They have 10 stations in NJ. They are all single connector stations that belong to restaurants and hotels.
Are you trying to push the same point WSJ laughably was? Take the barest handful of extreme examples and bloat it into sensational doom & gloom?

So, did Tesla want a "Gigafactory" just so they could build a few hundred cars, or what?
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6687

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

The crowded charging station may be a sign of there being a lack of stations rather than there being too many cars. They have 10 stations in NJ. They are all single connector stations that belong to restaurants and hotels.
Are you trying to push the same point WSJ laughably was? Take the barest handful of extreme examples and bloat it into sensational doom & gloom?

So, did Tesla want a "Gigafactory" just so they could build a few hundred cars, or what?
Do people kinda forget Tesla sells the charger thingos you can install in your house. For most day to day driving you really don't need to ever use a charging station.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690

Cybargs wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

The crowded charging station may be a sign of there being a lack of stations rather than there being too many cars. They have 10 stations in NJ. They are all single connector stations that belong to restaurants and hotels.
Are you trying to push the same point WSJ laughably was? Take the barest handful of extreme examples and bloat it into sensational doom & gloom?

So, did Tesla want a "Gigafactory" just so they could build a few hundred cars, or what?
Do people kinda forget Tesla sells the charger thingos you can install in your house. For most day to day driving you really don't need to ever use a charging station.
That is one of the reasons I think your comment about Tesla targeting the lower market is funny. The Tesla 3 is already limited to people who own their homes or live in apartments with a garage. $35,000 isn't cheap either. You can get a lot of fun cars with that amount.

I like plug in hybrids a lot. Those are very practical.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

Cybargs wrote:

Do people kinda forget Tesla sells the charger thingos you can install in your house. For most day to day driving you really don't need to ever use a charging station.
I think not so much as people used to short range vehicles being easily spooked into thinking they'll get stranded with either nowhere to charge or a long line for it.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Being first to market is often painful.

Tesla have the advantage of being ahead of the competition in technology, and probably capacity in battery manufacture.
That and the cool factor, for about a decade people will want a Tesla just as they want an iPhone or BMW when there are better alternatives.

Who do I want to buy a car from, a guy who makes space rockets or some pinhead from Detroit?
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690

Dilbert_X wrote:

Being first to market is often painful.

Tesla have the advantage of being ahead of the competition in technology, and probably capacity in battery manufacture.
That and the cool factor, for about a decade people will want a Tesla just as they want an iPhone or BMW when there are better alternatives.

Who do I want to buy a car from, a guy who makes space rockets or some pinhead from Detroit?
You know Nissan sold 200,000 Leafs in a shorter amount of time than Tesla. 75,000 more than Tesla has even been able to produce. There are 1.2 million electric vehicles in the world most of them utility. Tesla isn't the only one investing.

Japanese make robots. Checkmate
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6687

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:


Are you trying to push the same point WSJ laughably was? Take the barest handful of extreme examples and bloat it into sensational doom & gloom?

So, did Tesla want a "Gigafactory" just so they could build a few hundred cars, or what?
Do people kinda forget Tesla sells the charger thingos you can install in your house. For most day to day driving you really don't need to ever use a charging station.
That is one of the reasons I think your comment about Tesla targeting the lower market is funny. The Tesla 3 is already limited to people who own their homes or live in apartments with a garage. $35,000 isn't cheap either. You can get a lot of fun cars with that amount.

I like plug in hybrids a lot. Those are very practical.
I said lower end of the market, not the plebian market. 100k for a car and 35k for a car is a completely different price bracket. Tesla essentially wants to be squeezed into the market space of the german 3.

As I said, total volume doesn't mean anything. You have to look at the price bracket that tesla is competing in, which is mainly against 7 Series, A8 and S class. People don't just buy a car to get from point A to B, if that's enough than a cheapo second hand camry is more than enough.

S class sold around 16k vehicles last year

http://left-lane.com/european-car-sales … z-s-class/

Tesla sold about 50k vehicles last year

http://bgr.com/2016/01/03/tesla-model-s-sales-2015/

That is quite successful considering that tesla have to build a charging infrastructure on top as well.

Nissan isn't exactly trying to enter the luxury market now is it.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690
Tesla is losing money on every car it makes already. Selling a lot of cars at a loss isn't building the infrastructure needed that I talked about.

The pricing on the Tesla 3 isn't competitive either. The Nissan Leaf which has sold more than all Tesla's starts at $29,000. Toyota Prius is $24,000. Chevy Volt is $33,000. BMW is $42,000. Those are cars already on the market and are made by major brands. I don't see how they can out compete, out sell, and out produce any of those brands especially BMW which has plans on the same luxury market. The Tesla 3 isn't going to start being made until the end of 2017.

It is all advertising hype and I can link you to a great CNBC article that talked about how the finances of Tesla is kinda screwed up. I am worried that people are buying his stock on hype and are going to lose a ton of money when it turns out Tesla can't do what it says it can. All the while Elon Musk goes around like he is saving humanity with expensive cars.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6652|Disaster Free Zone

Cybargs wrote:

Nissan isn't exactly trying to enter the luxury market now is it.
Infiniti??

BMW, merc don't rely on the luxury market. They advertise those products to give the brand prestige then profit off the sale of their 3series/c class.

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