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M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|5311|Escea

I watched this on another site, and it seems like it only shifts during the day, so my guess is the vibrations of all the people walking past are having some effect on it.

That or magic.
globefish23
sophisticated slacker
+334|5412|Graz, Austria
Magnets.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4674

I believe that ethics is holding back scientific innovation and progress.

Since the days of repressed knowledge due to the power-corrupt Church during the medievil ages where scientists were put to death for challenging god.

To the modern day where stem cell research, nanotechnology (just two areas off the top of my head) are having their progress slowed largely down by old views of ethics.

If we want to go on the extreme side, certain scientific research has been withheld or frowned upon due to it being "gross" or "inhuman". For example research which may harm some people for the benefit of others. Another example, and a stark one, is the abhorrence of the idea of cloning a human. I mean why can't we just do it? I would like to play devil's advocate and say something like were we to be slightly more callous and unemotional and use human test subjects, would not science progress faster?

EDIT: I understand that this is a sensitive issue, lets try and refrain from getting overly heated though. We can all agree that atrocities in the name of science are abhorrent, horrible.

Are there any examples of areas where you believe people are being unreasonable under the guise of ethics? (Something like stem cells)

ENOUGH RHETORICAL QUESTIONS I'm more than happy to hear a CASE for the horrible consequences that would arise from prioritizing of science over ethics.
I really hate this way of thinking that has arisen most among middle class tech savvy people. I'm an ardent cornucopian optimist but views like this are just retarded. People who have this view cry when they get compared to Nazis but that is logical conclusion of this line of thinking.

On a tangent, older folks like to complain that our generation is selfish and narcissistic. The response back to them is usually along the lines of "your generation was not much better". Usually I agree with that but 90% of the people holding the view that "science=progress=help me" are under 25. It makes you wonder if there is some truth that our generation is slightly messed up when it comes to empathy.
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|3342
the problem with this generation is that the internet has given this pro-science (and its pro-atheism corollary) something of a cultish, ideological, bandwagon-y feel. it's now becoming, possibly for the first time, 'cool' to be a science-geek (and militant atheist). so you definitely get a lot of 15 year olds on reddit that have read a few dawkins books and sat in front of a sagan interview or two. it's irritating and i don't really think they understand the full import and significance of science, nor its limitations and the importance of other aspects of life.

wanting to overthrow ethics is just laugh-worthy. so much for the last 40 years of philosophical work by the likes of levinas. i doubt these kids have ever heard of something that high-brow, though. you don't need to say that science-without-ethics ends up "logically" with the nazis; it ended up ACTUALLY with the holocaust, for real, no logical inference or hypotheticals. one of the best books i have ever read is the 'dialectic of enlightenment' by adorno/horkheimer. if everyone coming up on this pro-science bandwagon muscled their way through that, i think they'd have a much more historically informed view.

prioritizing science (completely) over ethics is essentially rationalizing and abstracting the human part out of life. and from machine-like computation and positivistic principles to auschwitz's ovens is a short leap.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+765|5773|United States of America
Where'd you pull that quote from, Mac, reddit? I'd wager the writer is still at high school or lower, though, because you don't sit through a semester of bioethics lectures and still not understand those sorts of concerns.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4674

I did pull it from reddit. But I have heard similar views elsewhere. On this completely horrible season of big brother a house guest was talking up all the great innovations the Nazis gave us.
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|3342

Macbeth wrote:

I did pull it from reddit. But I have heard similar views elsewhere. On this completely horrible season of big brother a house guest was talking up all the great innovations the Nazis gave us.
well, nazi funding did technically invent many things.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4674

He didn't say it reflectively.
Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|5827|Toronto | Canada

its again one of those nonsensical things people who think they know lots about science from reading a dan brown book. to complete just about any science major i know of you need to take at least 2 or 3 ethics courses (one of which a high level 4th year one).

personally, im totally okay with stem cells though human cloning (and testing on clones especially) is iffy to me.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4446|London, England

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

the problem with this generation is that the internet has given this pro-science (and its pro-atheism corollary) something of a cultish, ideological, bandwagon-y feel. it's now becoming, possibly for the first time, 'cool' to be a science-geek (and militant atheist). so you definitely get a lot of 15 year olds on reddit that have read a few dawkins books and sat in front of a sagan interview or two. it's irritating and i don't really think they understand the full import and significance of science, nor its limitations and the importance of other aspects of life.

wanting to overthrow ethics is just laugh-worthy. so much for the last 40 years of philosophical work by the likes of levinas. i doubt these kids have ever heard of something that high-brow, though. you don't need to say that science-without-ethics ends up "logically" with the nazis; it ended up ACTUALLY with the holocaust, for real, no logical inference or hypotheticals. one of the best books i have ever read is the 'dialectic of enlightenment' by adorno/horkheimer. if everyone coming up on this pro-science bandwagon muscled their way through that, i think they'd have a much more historically informed view.

prioritizing science (completely) over ethics is essentially rationalizing and abstracting the human part out of life. and from machine-like computation and positivistic principles to auschwitz's ovens is a short leap.
People like that piss me off because they seem to get most of their 'science knowledge' from television shows that boil difficult concepts down to the point that they become laughably wrong. I'm sorry, but people on television are actors. Yes, some might have a background other than acting or journalism or whatever, but they're few and far between. Yes, I know that people like Morgan Freeman have writers and they're just reading a script, but it all still turns to shit. It's why I used to rag on Superior Mind so much; he loved to talk about science and philosophy but his knowledge was so superficial that he just said stupid stuff constantly. It might impress his liberal arts hipster Brooklynite friends, but I for one was not impressed.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|3342
we felt the same way about hegel, though.

but yes, i agree. though tv broadcasters here are normally professors. it's just dilute and ideological.
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|5781
LoL
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,753|5194|eXtreme to the maX
You really don't need 'high-brow' ethics to deal with science and progress.
#FreeBritney
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|3342

Dilbert_X wrote:

You really don't need 'high-brow' ethics to deal with science and progress.
why do ethics have to be 'high-brow'? i just said it was unlikely most reddit-age mega-scientists/militant-atheists had ever actually read a single book or piece of ethics in their lives. it's not as cool or accessible as dawkins or hitchens. actually ethics as taught in a science classroom isn't 'high-brow' though. nor is levinas, really. just i could tell straightaway from the quotation what sort of demographic it was coming from.

Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-07-15 04:35:31)

Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|5763|Canberra, AUS
have any of these anti-ethics blokes ever done any actual science in their lives? genuinely curious, it seems a fairly bizarre proposition to me.

unless they thought some of the fucked-up experiments of fifty years ago or so were great ideas...

Last edited by Spark (2013-07-15 05:47:54)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Extra Medium
THE UZI SLAYER
+79|3283|Oklahoma
Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4674

The Federation of German Consumer Organizations confirmed plans to take digital distribution platform Steam to court by the end of this year following the game distributor's refusal to change its terms of service regarding the right of users to re-sell digital software purchases.

The federation, known also as VZVB, announced its intentions earlier in February after last year's ruling from the European Court of Justice stating European consumers should have the right to re-sell digital titles.

"Unfortunately a date of the trial is not fixed - we hope it will take place this year," representative Eva Hoffschulte said, as reported by Gaming Blend. "Until then, it is not realistic that Valve will change their policy. But our chance to win the process is very good and that will be really an improvement for consumers: then they can sell their games to others.

"We have not checked the current directives, because first we have to finish our lawsuit against valve. Over and above that we are not able to take action against Valve, because of our financial and personnel situation."

The VZVB sent Valve a cease-and-desist order in September of last year regarding the issue shortly after Valve made changes to its end user license agreement prohibiting users from filing class-action lawsuits against the company. Following the initial lawsuit claim, Valve's vice president of marketing Doug Lombardi said the company was aware of the press release from the VZBV announcing the lawsuit, but hadn't yet to see the actual complaint.

We've reached out to Valve for comment and will update when further information is made available.
>_< Apple's price fixing case was legit. This is just ignorant.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4446|London, England
Would open the flood gates for legal distribution of digitally pirated everything.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4674

Uh not so sure about that. Do you know how steam works?
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|5311|Escea

Macbeth wrote:

Uh not so sure about that. Do you know how steam works?
Extremely slowly.
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,719|5825|Oxferd Ohire
science?
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4674

Technology?
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,719|5825|Oxferd Ohire
would anyone be interested in this? just a thread to post/talk about scientific discoveries developments etc. or about science in general


all other games or tech section?
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4674

Sorry.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4446|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

Uh not so sure about that. Do you know how steam works?
Precedent.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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