A repost from 4chan. Wonderful.
Umm, why would you think so? He's just speaking the truth. Whatever broke inside those kids broke while they were here. Blaming Chechnya would be like blaming Sweden if I went off my rocker and turned suicide bomber.Spearhead wrote:
Hopefully this will bring Russia and the US closer together when dealing with radical islamists. Misery loves company I guess.
Ya I know what they did to Chechnya and Grozny in the 90's. That sucks. But it seems the entire western world is dealing with the same problems. Afghanistan, and now this...Again, this asshole is asking for a cruise missileApparently, the [US] special forces needed a result at any price to calm society. Any attempt to make a link between Chechnya and the Tsarnaevs, if they are guilty, is in vain. They grew up in the US, their views and beliefs were formed there.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
hahahaha. yeah your 250 year old swedish roots are the same as the ongoing chechnyan conflictJay wrote:
Umm, why would you think so? He's just speaking the truth. Whatever broke inside those kids broke while they were here. Blaming Chechnya would be like blaming Sweden if I went off my rocker and turned suicide bomber.Spearhead wrote:
Hopefully this will bring Russia and the US closer together when dealing with radical islamists. Misery loves company I guess.
Ya I know what they did to Chechnya and Grozny in the 90's. That sucks. But it seems the entire western world is dealing with the same problems. Afghanistan, and now this...Again, this asshole is asking for a cruise missileApparently, the [US] special forces needed a result at any price to calm society. Any attempt to make a link between Chechnya and the Tsarnaevs, if they are guilty, is in vain. They grew up in the US, their views and beliefs were formed there.
i love how 5 pages ago, jay was jumping to conclusions and assuming they were "arabs", out of his bias. i was defending arabs and castigating him for jumping to conclusions. now we know they were islamists, jay wants to field the 'ultra-liberal' opinion, and is suddenly very sensitive about attributing the attacks to anything... and now i'm pointing out that chechnya is a very anti-western place.
Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-04-21 04:47:48)
but why would you want to bomb a foreign state for this? you are an idiot. extremists are just that, as the name implies: extremists. but yeah, topple another government and incur misery on millions more people, because a few of your own innocents died! what's the kill:death ratio for america post 9/11 again? fuck yeah!Spearhead wrote:
Hopefully this will bring Russia and the US closer together when dealing with radical islamists. Misery loves company I guess.
Ya I know what they did to Chechnya and Grozny in the 90's. That sucks. But it seems the entire western world is dealing with the same problems. Afghanistan, and now this...Again, this asshole is asking for a cruise missileApparently, the [US] special forces needed a result at any price to calm society. Any attempt to make a link between Chechnya and the Tsarnaevs, if they are guilty, is in vain. They grew up in the US, their views and beliefs were formed there.
stop being such a redneck.
do chechen separatists really have an axe to grind with the US? nothing i've ever heard suggests they do. honestly that comment smacks of "go away and leave us alone" more than anything else
and right on cue
and right on cue
MOSCOW—A jihadist website linked to an Islamist movement founded by a leading Chechen militant posted a statement Sunday that said the group bears no responsibility for the Boston Marathon bombing.
"The Caucasian Mujahadeen are not fighting with the United States of America. We are at war with Russia which is not only responsible for the occupation of the Caucasus, but also for heinous crimes against Muslims," read a statement on VDagestan.com that was signed by the Command of the Mujahadeen of the Vilayat in Dagestan.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
you'd have to be dense to not see how a person inculcated in extremist islamic ideology could turn those views to anti-americanism. yes, chechen separatists are concerned with... the separation of chechnya from russia. not surprising. however it has taken on more religious tones and has become a 'jihadi' operation in the last few decades, as opposed to one of just straight political rebellion. if a person of chechen origin, living in america, with the chechen brand of extremist islamism... turns those views to american culture, it's not hard to connect the dots. radical islam is quite universalist in what it decries. it's probably fair to say that the radical islam part of chechen rebellion gives it wider application than merely the original political struggle.
fwiw, the hamburg cell were originally trained and deployed in the chechnyan conflict. they are just two 'theaters' of jihad: much like iraq and afghan for the west's ideological 'freedom and democracy' theater.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_cell
fwiw, the hamburg cell were originally trained and deployed in the chechnyan conflict. they are just two 'theaters' of jihad: much like iraq and afghan for the west's ideological 'freedom and democracy' theater.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_cell
oh and no shit the chechen islamists are going to say they have nothing to do with it. we don't know that the boston bombers were 'affiliated' or operating under the aegis of an chechen terrorist group. and of course the chechens don't want the american government/people training their sights on their (valid) cause. they just COME FROM a place that, historically, as a CONTEXT, has been infiltrated by radical islamic tendencies. why are people finding this so difficult to entertain the possibility of?As late as 1999, the four core members of the group had intended to wage jihad in Chechnya, where Islamic jihadists were then and are now rebelling against the parent country of Russia. The 9/11 Commission Report notes in Chapter 5 that "according to bin al-Shibh [who is now in U.S. custody], a chance meeting on a train in Germany caused the group to travel to Afghanistan instead. An individual named Khalid al Masri (or Khalid al-Masri) approached bin al-Shibh and Shehhi (because they were Arabs with beards, bin al-Shibh thinks) and struck up a conversation about jihad in Chechnya. When they later called Masri and expressed interest in going to Chechnya, he told them to contact Abu Musab in Duisburg, Germany. Abu Musab turned out to be Mohamedou Ould Slahi, a significant al-Qaeda operative who, even then, was well known to U.S. and German intelligence, though neither government apparently knew he was operating in Germany in late 1999."
Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-04-21 05:25:23)
I'm not actually saying that we should invade/bomb them. Its just an amazingly insensitive and politically amateurish thing to do, to imply that they were framed and then to go on and deny any involvement when the investigation is still ongoing. The president should have said "we are sorry for your loss and will assist with the investigation", like Putin did, and move the fuck on. Even if they don't mean it, it's what responsible leaders do in these situations. But no, they have to fulfill the developing world politician stereotype and act like a fucking 3rd grader. Perpetuate a conspiracy theory and act like "oh, those chechnyans were framed. But even if they did do it, its not our fault" Talking out of his ass like a child. Makes me pissed.
Last edited by Spearhead (2013-04-21 07:05:17)
calm down. you're talking like a child, not him. if you understood a thing about the history of his country, you'd understand the perspective and context of his comments. frankly, putin immediately phoning up to 'sympathize' with the US is FAR more cynical and politically underhand than the chechen leader denying any of his nation's involvement. you should be angry at putin for his meddling opportunism, rather than the chechen's for stating - as they are quite entitled to do - that they have no 'official' involvement in the incident.
you are just not thinking straight.
you are just not thinking straight.
Isn't that rather the point? There's a considerable distance in the seriousness with which people will treat what is effectively a politically motivated crime, with perhaps some radicalisation influences from alQaeda-like groups and an actual attack with the full backing and weight of an organised international jihadist group. The reaction to the latter would be quite loud, I'd imagine.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
you'd have to be dense to not see how a person inculcated in extremist islamic ideology could turn those views to anti-americanism. yes, chechen separatists are concerned with... the separation of chechnya from russia. not surprising. however it has taken on more religious tones and has become a 'jihadi' operation in the last few decades, as opposed to one of just straight political rebellion. if a person of chechen origin, living in america, with the chechen brand of extremist islamism... turns those views to american culture, it's not hard to connect the dots. radical islam is quite universalist in what it decries. it's probably fair to say that the radical islam part of chechen rebellion gives it wider application than merely the original political struggle.
fwiw, the hamburg cell were originally trained and deployed in the chechnyan conflict. they are just two 'theaters' of jihad: much like iraq and afghan for the west's ideological 'freedom and democracy' theater.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_celloh and no shit the chechen islamists are going to say they have nothing to do with it. we don't know that the boston bombers were 'affiliated' or operating under the aegis of an chechen terrorist group. and of course the chechens don't want the american government/people training their sights on their (valid) cause. they just COME FROM a place that, historically, as a CONTEXT, has been infiltrated by radical islamic tendencies. why are people finding this so difficult to entertain the possibility of?As late as 1999, the four core members of the group had intended to wage jihad in Chechnya, where Islamic jihadists were then and are now rebelling against the parent country of Russia. The 9/11 Commission Report notes in Chapter 5 that "according to bin al-Shibh [who is now in U.S. custody], a chance meeting on a train in Germany caused the group to travel to Afghanistan instead. An individual named Khalid al Masri (or Khalid al-Masri) approached bin al-Shibh and Shehhi (because they were Arabs with beards, bin al-Shibh thinks) and struck up a conversation about jihad in Chechnya. When they later called Masri and expressed interest in going to Chechnya, he told them to contact Abu Musab in Duisburg, Germany. Abu Musab turned out to be Mohamedou Ould Slahi, a significant al-Qaeda operative who, even then, was well known to U.S. and German intelligence, though neither government apparently knew he was operating in Germany in late 1999."
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
well the answer is no, chechen separatists don't have an axe to grind with the US. however many chechen people, as a result of their socio-historical circumstance, happen to be radicalized islamists. and chechnya is a state that is frequently the destination for the world's jihadis.
Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-04-21 07:40:13)
Lots of Chechen fighters in Afghanistan (reportedly one of the largest groups), but whether they're so much about separating Chechnya from Russia is another matter.Spark wrote:
do chechen separatists really have an axe to grind with the US? nothing i've ever heard suggests they do. honestly that comment smacks of "go away and leave us alone" more than anything else
and right on cueMOSCOW—A jihadist website linked to an Islamist movement founded by a leading Chechen militant posted a statement Sunday that said the group bears no responsibility for the Boston Marathon bombing.
"The Caucasian Mujahadeen are not fighting with the United States of America. We are at war with Russia which is not only responsible for the occupation of the Caucasus, but also for heinous crimes against Muslims," read a statement on VDagestan.com that was signed by the Command of the Mujahadeen of the Vilayat in Dagestan.
The US hate would be a more of solidarity thing between the wack job muslims brothers.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Spearhead wrote:
I'm not actually saying that we should invade/bomb them. Its just an amazingly insensitive and politically amateurish thing to do, to imply that they were framed and then to go on and deny any involvement when the investigation is still ongoing. The president should have said "we are sorry for your loss and will assist with the investigation", like Putin did, and move the fuck on. Even if they don't mean it, it's what responsible leaders do in these situations. But no, they have to fulfill the developing world politician stereotype and act like a fucking 3rd grader. Perpetuate a conspiracy theory and act like "oh, those chechnyans were framed. But even if they did do it, its not our fault" Talking out of his ass like a child. Makes me pissed.
there you are, feel stupid now.The terrorist action which as carried out during a sport event in Boston, killed three people, including a child, and caused serious injuries to dozens of people. On behalf of the Chechen people and the Government of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria in exile and myself, I want to express my deepest condolences to the families of the victims and wish a speedy recovery to the wounded.
To our great sadness, according to coming news reports, in carrying out this criminal action are suspected ethnic Chechens who have lived in the United States. Meanwhile, the Chechen people never had and can not have any hostile feelings toward the United States and its citizens. A benefit of this crime can extract only the Russian elite and those Russian puppets in occupied Chechnya, who are the agents of Moscow's policies, violating the legitimate interests of the Chechen people.
We can not exclude that some information sources declaring themselves as supporters of the Caucasian independence and being themselves ideological employees of Russian special services, will try to take the responsibility for this criminal action, as has happened before.
We also do not exclude any official statements from the Kremlin, which will be another attempt to present the struggle of the Chechen people for national independence as "international terrorism." Anticipating these provocative statements, we emphatically declare that we do not accept terrorism as a method of struggle and as the means of achieving political goals. We also unequivocally condemn acts of terrorism, no matter from where they come from. However, we reject attempts to pass on the principle of collective responsibility of the blame for the crimes of individuals Chechens on the entire Chechen people.
Akmed Zakayev,
Chairman of the Cabinet of Ministers of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria
So it was the Russians?
What you see happening in a lot of muslim separatist groups fall under 2 catagories: they either fight for their own autonomy/independence ala Moro Islamic Liberation Front in the phillipines or a lot of them get pulled into global jihadist groups. A lot of muslim seperatist insurgencies get money and training from AQ and other global jihadist groups like abu sayeff since they're essentially "fighting the same people" on the local level.M.O.A.B wrote:
Lots of Chechen fighters in Afghanistan (reportedly one of the largest groups), but whether they're so much about separating Chechnya from Russia is another matter.Spark wrote:
do chechen separatists really have an axe to grind with the US? nothing i've ever heard suggests they do. honestly that comment smacks of "go away and leave us alone" more than anything else
and right on cueMOSCOW—A jihadist website linked to an Islamist movement founded by a leading Chechen militant posted a statement Sunday that said the group bears no responsibility for the Boston Marathon bombing.
"The Caucasian Mujahadeen are not fighting with the United States of America. We are at war with Russia which is not only responsible for the occupation of the Caucasus, but also for heinous crimes against Muslims," read a statement on VDagestan.com that was signed by the Command of the Mujahadeen of the Vilayat in Dagestan.
AussieReaper wrote:
So it was the Russians?
AussieReaper wrote:
So it was the Russians?
lol even CNN are blaming reddit and co for being retards
you know you are being stupid when CNN is calling you out. go go gadget roc.
you know you are being stupid when CNN is calling you out. go go gadget roc.
I learnt most of my European geo from total war
chechnya isn't really europe. maybe the european continent, at a stretch.
Oh, I was just saying. I knew nothing of the majority of europe until then.
i probably couldn't tell you where on a north-east-south-west compass all the major cities of australia are.
but then again you've never had any compelling video-games based on your continent.
or anything interesting
ever
but then again you've never had any compelling video-games based on your continent.
or anything interesting
ever
I dunno, Steve Irwin was pretty cool.