BF2S Forums Gun politics, firearms ownership, and US 2nd amendment discussion

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Entertaining in a sad way? A bunch of hicks from Tennessee using weapons to change a local election in their favor isn't funny. If they didn't agree with the results than they should move. Not start shooting at election officials.

Where's your dark sense of humor?

Frederick Bastiat wrote:

No society can exist unless the laws are respected to a certain degree. The safest way to make laws respected is to make them respectable. When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law. These two evils are of equal consequence, and it would be difficult for a person to choose between them. The nature of law is to maintain justice. This is so much the case that, in the minds of the people, law and justice are one and the same thing. There is in all of us a strong disposition to believe that anything lawful is also legitimate. This belief is so widespread that many persons have erroneously held that things are "just" because law makes them so.

Bastiat, Frederick (2008-06-01). The Law (pp. 8-9). Misbach Enterprises. Kindle Edition.

Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Thus the beneficiaries are spared the shame, danger, and scruple which their acts would otherwise involve. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons, and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal.

Bastiat, Frederick (2008-06-01). The Law (p. 14). Misbach Enterprises. Kindle Edition.

Last edited by Jay (2012-10-21 15:14:00)

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

its weird to me that it's legally ok for you to kill someone trying to rob you but then if said burglar is convicted and caught he isn't shot on sight.

http://news.yahoo.com/minn-man-says-fir … 41818.html

Minn. man says he 'fired more shots than I needed'
By AMY FORLITI | Associated Press – 16 hrs ago



LITTLE FALLS, Minn. (AP) — A Minnesota homeowner who shot two unarmed teenagers in the midst of an apparent Thanksgiving Day break-in told authorities he feared they had a weapon, but acknowledged firing "more shots than I needed to" and appeared to take pride in "a good clean finishing shot" for one teen, according to investigators.

Byron David Smith, 64, was charged Monday with two counts of second-degree murder in a criminal complaint that was chilling for the clinical way investigators said he described the shootings.

Smith told investigators he shot 18-year-old Haile Kifer several times as she descended a stairway into his basement, and his Mini 14 rifle jammed as he tried to shoot her again after she had tumbled down the steps.

Though Kifer was "already hurting," she let out a short laugh, Smith told investigators. He then pulled out his .22-caliber revolver and shot her several times in the chest, according to the complaint.

"If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again," Smith told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday.

Smith was also charged in the death of Kifer's cousin, 17-year-old Nicholas Brady.

Minnesota law allows a homeowner to use deadly force on an intruder if a reasonable person would fear they're in danger of harm, and Smith told investigators he was afraid the intruders might have a weapon. However, Smith's actions weren't justified, Morrison County Sheriff Michel Wetzel said.

"The law doesn't permit you to execute somebody once a threat is gone," he said.

Smith told investigators he was fearful after several break-ins at his remote home in Little Falls, a central Minnesota town of 8,000 people. The sheriff's office had only one report of a break-in, on Oct. 27. Smith reported losing thousands of dollars in cash, gold coins, two guns, photo equipment and jewelry.

Wetzel said that while the shootings happened on Thursday, Smith waited until Friday to report the deaths, explaining that "he didn't want to trouble us on a holiday."

In the complaint, Smith said he was in his basement when he heard a window breaking upstairs, followed by footsteps that eventually approached the basement stairwell. Smith said he fired when Brady came into view from the waist down.

After the teen fell down the stairs, Smith said he shot him in the face as he lay on the floor.

"I want him dead," the complaint quoted Smith telling an investigator.

Smith said he dragged Brady's body into his basement workshop, then sat down on his chair. After a few minutes, Kifer began coming down the stairs and he shot her as soon as her hips appeared, he said.

After shooting her with both the Mini 14 and the .22-caliber revolver, he dragged her next to Brady. With her still gasping for air, he fired a shot under her chin "up into the cranium," the complaint says.

"Smith described it as 'a good clean finishing shot,'" according to the complaint.

The next day he asked a neighbor to recommend a good lawyer, according to the complaint. He later asked his neighbor to call the police.

A prosecutor called Smith's reaction "appalling."

"Mr. Smith intentionally killed two teenagers in his home in a manner that goes well beyond self-defense," Morrison County Attorney Brian Middendorf said after Smith appeared in court Monday morning. Bail was set at $2 million.

Defense attorney Gregory Larson declined comment.

John Lange, who described himself as Smith's best friend, said Smith shouldn't be in jail.

"You have a right to defend your home," Lange said. "He's been through hell."

But Liberty Nunn, a Little Falls resident who said she knew Nicholas Brady's older sister, said Smith could have simply shouted at them to stop. She said she hopes Smith goes to prison "for a very, very long time."

"Those are two young lives that were taken," she said. "It's just not right."

Minnesota sentencing guidelines call for a range of roughly 21 to 30 years in prison for a person convicted of a single second-degree murder count.

Smith's brother, Bruce Smith, told the Minneapolis Star Tribune his brother had retired after a career as a security officer with the U.S. State Department.

Bruce Smith declined to talk to an Associated Press reporter Monday outside his brother's home. A makeshift barricade blocked the driveway and a board leaning against it bore the spray-painted words "Keep Out."

Brady's sister, Crystal Schaeffel, told the Star Tribune that Kifer had stolen prescription drugs from her home before. Little Falls police records show Crystal Schaeffel reported a theft Aug. 28, but the department said the report was not public because that investigation was continuing and because it named juveniles.

Schools in Little Falls, about 100 miles northwest of Minneapolis, made counselors available, though classes weren't in session Monday. In nearby Pillager, where classes were in session, a few students sought help from school counselors and local clergy members available at the school Monday morning, said Superintendent Chuck Arns.

west-phoenix-az wrote:

his Mini 14 rifle jammed as he tried to shoot her again

Extra Medium wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

its weird to me that it's legally ok for you to kill someone trying to rob you but then if said burglar is convicted and caught he isn't shot on sight.

That would be weird to someone like yourself wouldn't it?

So when some weirdo breaks into my house at 3 in the morning while my wife a two toddlers are sleeping, you seriously can't find logical sense in your brain as to why a court doesn't have a problem that I'm going to shoot the son of a bitch?

I hope you break into my house some day.

Macbeth wrote:

A lot of gun owners want someone to break into their homes in order to legally shoot them.