Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5825

On Monday morning, 350,000 kids in Chicago found themselves without a classroom to bustle about as the city's teachers went on their first strike in 25 years. The sticking point? A new teacher evaluation system.

The city's 25,000 public school teachers are on strike for the first time in a quarter-century, after the latest contract talks broke down Sunday with no deal to avert a walkout.

Chicago Teachers Union President Karen Lewis said late Sunday night there had been some progress in contract talks, but "we have failed to reach an agreement that will prevent a labor strike."

The city's public school teachers make an average of $71,000 a year. Both sides said they were close to an agreement on wages. What apparently remains are issues involving teacher performance and accountability, which the union saw as a threat to job security.
Before anyone says "I wish I was making $71,000 a year!'', Chicago is one of the most expensive cities in the country so don't think the teachers are living large. The city offered a 16% pay raise and the union wasn't interested. So the union isn't "being greedy" and hoping for a huge payout. The teacher union doesn't want new accountability measures that the think is unfair to them.
Union supporters argue that evaluating teachers using tests can be tricky, and that this "value-added" measurement can be volatile and inaccurate. Additionally, [h]teachers who have a high proportion of poor students may have a harder time lifting their kids' scores than teachers who work in affluent districts. (About 80 percent of Chicago students qualify for free or reduced federal lunches.) As many as 6,000 teachers would wrongly lose their jobs under the system, says Chicago Teachers Union (CTU) President Karen Lewis. "Evaluate us on what we do, not the lives of our children we do not control," she said while announcing the strike, according to Reuters. But reformers counter that teachers should be responsible for helping their students score better on tests, and that current evaluation systems provide no way for ineffective teachers to be identified or removed from classrooms.
I have to side with the teacher's union here. States are now attempting to balance their budgets on the backs of teachers. Lazy stupid parents are of course going along with this because they have a rose tinted view of the past and thinks that our schools are getting worse. Because most parents think 'it is the school's job' to teach their kids and don't take any responsibility at home, teachers end up getting all the blame for their stupid children.

One of you guys is going to try to be cute and say "Schools are getting worse, Macbeth! It is a proven fact!!" No they haven't.
Loveless is one of the nation's leading experts on PISA and TIMSS. He has been part of the cohorts of specialists who advise those programs. In his report he says the first international test comparable to those two was the First International Math Study (FIMS) in 1964. It assessed 13-year-olds in 12 countries. The United States placed next to last, just ahead of Sweden.

We were beaten by Israel, Japan, Belgium, Finland, Germany, England, Scotland, the Netherlands, France and Australia, in that order. Other age groups were tested with similarly disappointing results for the United States.

In the latest PISA and TIMSS tests, the United States did better, scoring in the middle of the pack. On PISA, the United States was up 5 points in reading, 13 points in math and 13 points in science. If we maintain that pace, Loveless says, we will boost the U.S. gross domestic product by at least $41 trillion in the next 20 years, according to an analysis of PISA results by Stanford University economist Eric A. Hanushek.
"But Macbeth, why are we scoring so low?! Something is wrong!!" Yes, something is wrong. It's called childhood poverty.
Why are our international rankings low? Our test scores are dragged down by poverty. On the latest international test, called PISA, our schools with low poverty had scores higher than those of Japan, Finland, and other high-scoring nations. American schools in which as many as 25% of the students are poor had scores equivalent to the top-scoring nations.  As the poverty level in the school rises, the scores fall.

Rhee ignores the one statistic where the United States is number one. We have the highest child poverty rate of any advanced nation in the world. Nearly 25% of our children live in poverty.
So, since the problems with our schools aren't on the teachers end but in fact a problem with the country's inequality issues, how would making teachers jobs more difficult be a good thing?!

Last edited by Macbeth (2012-09-10 16:29:07)

A2TG2
Hazbeen
+67|4764|at your six
Our country is fuel on demonization.

For me, it's not the pay, it is the pensions and they way they stacked them to cash in.


Mac,
" Lazy stupid parents are of course going along with this because they have a rose tinted view of the past and thinks that are schools are getting worse. "
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6932
Teachers should be free to design lesson plans that best fit their student body. Forcing them to teach kids how to pass standardized exams removes this freedom from the sensei.
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6910|UK
too much yellow.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England
A 16% raise is absurd based on the work they do and the economy they're in. They work 3 months less than everyone else, not including vacations, make $71,000 per year and have full pension and ironclad benefits. They make far more money than a comparable worker in the private sector and have the gall to complain? It wouldn't matter if they were making $1M a year each, they would still complain that they are overworked and underpaid. Fuck teachers unions.

I hope they all get fired air-traffic controller style.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493
When people use a highlighter or highlight formatting that much, I always think they must presume that their readers are stupid.
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6736

Jay wrote:

I hope they all get fired air-traffic controller style.
then vote for Reagan.

oh wait, today*s GOP would throw him out . . .
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6736

aynrandroolz wrote:

When people use a highlighter or highlight formatting that much, I always think they must presume that their readers are stupid .
racialist
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|6953|Purplicious Wisconsin

13urnzz wrote:

Jay wrote:

I hope they all get fired air-traffic controller style.
then vote for Reagan.

oh wait, today*s GOP would throw him out . . .
Ah, no. We wouldn't
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6736

War Man wrote:

13urnzz wrote:

Jay wrote:

I hope they all get fired air-traffic controller style.
then vote for Reagan.

oh wait, today*s GOP would throw him out . . .
Ah, no. We wouldn't
ah, yes, you would. you teabagger fucks have already thrown some solid republicans over the high side - if you like paul ryan, you already like the taste of sperm. you would vote against your mother if it meant a vote for America.

fuck off.
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|6953|Purplicious Wisconsin

13urnzz wrote:

War Man wrote:

13urnzz wrote:

then vote for Reagan.

oh wait, today*s GOP would throw him out . . .
Ah, no. We wouldn't
ah, yes, you would. you teabagger fucks have already thrown some solid republicans over the high side - if you like paul ryan, you already like the taste of sperm. you would vote against your mother if it meant a vote for America.

fuck off.
You know burnzz, you need to lighten the fuck up and stop being an ass.

Edit: By the way, who you planning to vote for out of curiosity?

Last edited by War Man (2012-09-10 18:13:16)

The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6736

War Man wrote:

Edit: By the way, who you planning to vote for out of curiosity?
the party of Reagan and sane politics. for me that means anyone but rmoney.
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|6953|Purplicious Wisconsin

13urnzz wrote:

War Man wrote:

Edit: By the way, who you planning to vote for out of curiosity?
the party of Reagan and sane politics. for me that means anyone but rmoney.
And you complain of me being ignorant..............
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6736

War Man wrote:

13urnzz wrote:

War Man wrote:

Edit: By the way, who you planning to vote for out of curiosity?
the party of Reagan and sane politics. for me that means anyone but rmoney.
And you complain of me being ignorant..............
yes, because your generation is defaulting to a leadership role in politics. Thank God and Father Time that i won't be around to the clusterfuck that that means . . .
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|6953|Purplicious Wisconsin

13urnzz wrote:

War Man wrote:

13urnzz wrote:


the party of Reagan and sane politics. for me that means anyone but rmoney.
And you complain of me being ignorant..............
yes, because your generation is defaulting to a leadership role in politics. Thank God and Father Time that i won't be around to the clusterfuck that that means . . .
I look forward when I don't have to deal with people like yourself as well.
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6736

War Man wrote:

13urnzz wrote:

War Man wrote:


And you complain of me being ignorant..............
yes, because your generation is defaulting to a leadership role in politics. Thank God and Father Time that i won't be around to the clusterfuck that that means . . .
I look forward when I don't have to deal with people like yourself as well.
the way republicants are imposing a poll tax and voting restrictions, that day will come sooner rather than later.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6871|949

War Man wrote:

13urnzz wrote:

War Man wrote:

Edit: By the way, who you planning to vote for out of curiosity?
the party of Reagan and sane politics. for me that means anyone but rmoney.
And you complain of me being ignorant..............
why is he being ignorant?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England

13urnzz wrote:

War Man wrote:

13urnzz wrote:


yes, because your generation is defaulting to a leadership role in politics. Thank God and Father Time that i won't be around to the clusterfuck that that means . . .
I look forward when I don't have to deal with people like yourself as well.
the way republicants are imposing a poll tax and voting restrictions, that day will come sooner rather than later.
What poll tax?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6736

Jay wrote:

13urnzz wrote:

War Man wrote:


I look forward when I don't have to deal with people like yourself as well.
the way republicants are imposing a poll tax and voting restrictions, that day will come sooner rather than later.
What poll tax?
by showing a government approved ID the average voter will have to pay to have their picture taken to prove they have the right to participate in our democracy, regardless if they have voted in the past.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6871|949

Jay wrote:

A 16% raise is absurd based on the work they do and the economy they're in. They work 3 months less than everyone else, not including vacations, make $71,000 per year and have full pension and ironclad benefits. They make far more money than a comparable worker in the private sector and have the gall to complain? It wouldn't matter if they were making $1M a year each, they would still complain that they are overworked and underpaid. Fuck teachers unions.

I hope they all get fired air-traffic controller style.
The 16% pay raise was spread over the course of the next 4 years.  That's not even 4% per year when adjusting for inflation.  This isn't a point of contention right now.  $74K is the average.  That means a lot of people make less.

A2TG2 wrote:

Mac,
" Lazy stupid parents are of course going along with this because they have a rose tinted view of the past and thinks that are schools are getting worse. "
yeah either schools were shitty back when you went or you didn't get a lot out of it

aynrandroolz wrote:

When people use a highlighter or highlight formatting that much, I always think they must presume that their readers are stupid.
I don't disagree and it's a fair assessment on this site.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England

13urnzz wrote:

Jay wrote:

13urnzz wrote:


the way republicants are imposing a poll tax and voting restrictions, that day will come sooner rather than later.
What poll tax?
by showing a government approved ID the average voter will have to pay to have their picture taken to prove they have the right to participate in our democracy, regardless if they have voted in the past.
You need an id to drive anyway, or open a bank account, or like 75,000,000 other things these days. I think my driver's license was like 25 bucks.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6736

Jay wrote:

You need an id to drive anyway, or open a bank account, or like 75,000,000 other things these days. I think my driver's license was like 25 bucks.
my father, has diabetes and luekemia. he does not drive, and my mother (may she rest in peace) set up a trust to pay taxes and utilities. the Utah fucking legislature passed a law that only valid government forms of ID will be accepted in the upcoming election, haha take that Rmoney the most republicant state in the onion wont let my FUCKING CRIPPLED DAD VOTE FOR YOU haha
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5825

Re: State ID's

I think it was Texas that said NRA IDs were valid to vote but state university IDs weren't. Really silly.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England
He's not the target though... The obsession with illegals voting is what drives that. If dems weren't knowingly stuffing ballot boxes with illegal votes (like they've done for 170 years) it wouldn't even be an issue
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6736

Jay wrote:

He's not the target though... The obsession with illegals voting is what drives that. If dems weren't knowingly stuffing ballot boxes with illegal votes (like they've done for 170 years) it wouldn't even be an issue
back your shit up or GTFO

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