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FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|5495|'Murka

My point being that Down Syndrome (or any other number of genetic abnormalities) is not really that different, in the grand scheme. And I clearly wasn't referring to hair color when I made that statement. Thanks for your own strawman, AR.

I wrote:

...the attitude you guys are taking toward something like Down Syndrome.
That's pretty clearly not related to hair or eye color. I guess grasping that concept requires reading a post before you respond, as well.

I find it hard to believe that even the people who are on this forum would be so base as to abort a child that didn't have the right hair color...hence why it wasn't even considered as part of my point.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,760|5237|what

Oh, see when I read what you wrote "Kid's not perfect. Totally OK to abort it." I must have incorrectly assumed you meant, "Kids not perfect. Totally OK to abort it."
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|4263|Sydney

FEOS wrote:

It's not in my mind...it's based on posts in this thread. Hence the quotation marks.

It's not a strawman. Again, it's based on posts in this thread.
To be fair, from what I've seen it was really only Shahter who said these comments. I too read those posts and thought it was denigrating and ignorant.

Last edited by Jaekus (2012-08-26 03:45:09)

Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|5083|...

FEOS wrote:

It's not a strawman. Again, it's based on posts in this thread.

I already stated why they shouldn't be denigrating...but that would require you to read a post before you respond. Since you clearly didn't read any previous posts with "freak" and "drooling on the floor" in them, as well as people using genetic abnormalities as justification for abortion, I suppose it was too much to expect you to have read my post, as well.

gg
I did. Downs is a pretty serious condition though. In extreme cases the child/person will have to be monitored 24/7 and will never be able to function in and contribute to society. As I stated before, that requires a lot of personal sacrifice on the part of the parents, literally for the entire length of their lives (and beyond for others, be it brothers, sisters etc). You undoubtedly know this much, much better than I do.

I wouldn't be up to the task. In regards to abortion, in the end it of course depends entirely on what the lady wants because, as burnzz's wife stated, she'll make up her mind and there's nothing you, as a man, can do about that - I have no problem justifying it though.
inane little opines
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|5495|'Murka

As I said, there is a spectrum of disability associated with Down Syndrome. Just as there is a spectrum for "normal people." Some "normal people" can't contribute to society any more than the person with Down Syndrome that you mention. The only difference is that "normal person"--who is contributing as much (or less) than many with Down Syndrome--wasn't judged in utero to be unfit to be given the chance to show his ability (or lack thereof).

If my wife were to get pregnant, we would certainly do genetic testing to make sure the child didn't have the same thing my oldest son does. If it did, we have agreed we would abort. Not because we feel the child wouldn't contribute to or be a burden on society, but because we would be saving our child from a lifetime of struggle and pain. And we would have to deal with the consequences of that decision. I don't give two shits about society--I care about the child.

I'll gladly trade my eternal soul (if it were to come to that) to prevent suffering for my child. I would trade my life right now to make the lives of any of my children better. Lord knows I've asked for that enough times...particularly when my oldest is having his worst days.

But I wouldn't trade him or the joy he's brought to our lives and so many others for anything. Even if some of you would call him a drooling freak who should've been aborted.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|5495|'Murka

AussieReaper wrote:

Oh, see when I read what you wrote "Kid's not perfect. Totally OK to abort it." I must have incorrectly assumed you meant, "Kids not perfect. Totally OK to abort it."
Yeah. If you read something, totally isolated from the context of the rest of the post, then portray it as the entirety of the post, I can see how you would make that flawed assumption.

Hence the comment about reading posts--as opposed to just part of them.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|5083|...

FEOS wrote:

As I said, there is a spectrum of disability associated with Down Syndrome. Just as there is a spectrum for "normal people." Some "normal people" can't contribute to society any more than the person with Down Syndrome that you mention. The only difference is that "normal person"--who is contributing as much (or less) than many with Down Syndrome--wasn't judged in utero to be unfit to be given the chance to show his ability (or lack thereof).

If my wife were to get pregnant, we would certainly do genetic testing to make sure the child didn't have the same thing my oldest son does. If it did, we have agreed we would abort. Not because we feel the child wouldn't contribute to or be a burden on society, but because we would be saving our child from a lifetime of struggle and pain. And we would have to deal with the consequences of that decision. I don't give two shits about society--I care about the child.

I'll gladly trade my eternal soul (if it were to come to that) to prevent suffering for my child. I would trade my life right now to make the lives of any of my children better. Lord knows I've asked for that enough times...particularly when my oldest is having his worst days.

But I wouldn't trade him or the joy he's brought to our lives and so many others for anything. Even if some of you would call him a drooling freak who should've been aborted.
I don't condone the drooling freak comments and I realise that as with anything there is a spectrum to consider, hence I said 'in extreme cases', I have met people with downs who, to my surprise, spoke completely fluently and could otherwise be considered 'normal'. I'm also not trying to tell you that abortion is the right course of action to take if a foetus is diagnosed with down's syndrome. Not at all, don't push me in that corner. I believe people have their own choices to make when it comes to this matter. What I am doing is explaining what would probably be my choice were I ever confronted with this reality.

The purpose of my comment about functioning in and contributing to society isn't one of putting society above the welfare of the child but about what you outline yourself: a lifetime of struggle for the child. The other part of the reason is undeniably egoism. Yes, you are preventing a foetus from having a chance at life because you are personally not prepared to take care of the baby. Abortion is definitely not an altruistic operation. In a sense you are choosing yourself above the foetus were you to opt for abortion. Though however much people insist others look at the 'big picture', as in a foetus being a life with potential I don't see how that should prevent me from looking at this life at the stage it is in. It has no ego or consciousness to speak of, it can't contemplate anything. Any 'hurt' caused to the foetus is simply people projecting things unto one that didn't exist, potential or not. Ending a life in this stage doesn't strike me as a crime.
inane little opines
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|5859|Moscow, Russia
thanks, shock. exactly my thoughts in the post above. it always struck my... strange, to say the least, how so called pro-lifers always seem to have no problem calling everybody who even considers abortion "murderers", but when the other side calls downs and the likes "freaks" that's somehow terribly wrong.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|5083|...
uh, I did say I don't condone the freak comment.

And yes, I do feel the 'murderer' comment is a little ridiculous (though I don't think feos stated this either).

Last edited by Shocking (2012-08-27 04:55:25)

inane little opines
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,753|5190|eXtreme to the maX
Maybe men shouldn't have any say in what women do with their bodies.

And I've never understood how people can say they support the death penaltly for intellectually sub-normal teenagers who commit a crime but oppose abortion of two or more cells in a cluster.
#FreeBritney
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|5859|Moscow, Russia

Shocking wrote:

uh, I did say I don't condone the freak comment.
i don't too. i used that particular agrument as a way of giving certain, you know, believers some of their own medicine to try.

And yes, I do feel the 'murderer' comment is a little ridiculous (though I don't think feos stated this either).
"a little"? more like totally if you ask me. these pro-lifers destroy more "life" every time they clash their teeth in anger than gets "ended" during most abortion procedures, but it doesn't seem to bother them one bit, you know.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
HITNRUNXX
Member
+220|5794|Oklahoma City
LOL. I say I don't believe (as in one person's personal set of opinions and feelings on a subject) in killing humans and define what I consider to be human, and you all freak out and start attacking... But "believers" are the ones clashing their teeth? LOL...

I do appreciate the people who made nice valid arguments and stated their beliefs on the subject. I respect that very much.

The number of you in attack mode are ridiculous though. I am sure you like to tell everyone how tolerant you are of popular things, but are the first to show your intolerance on any unpopular subject.

Thank you for the insights to those that participated in the "Debate and Serious Talk."
Fawking hell
New law in Arizona states 'pregnancy begins two weeks before conception'
http://www.examiner.com/article/new-law … conception
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|5581

https://i.imgur.com/PYeIa.jpg
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|5495|'Murka

Kimmmmmmmmmmmm wrote:

Fawking hell
New law in Arizona states 'pregnancy begins two weeks before conception'
http://www.examiner.com/article/new-law … conception
Sorry...but that's just a bucket of dumbass.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|5817|Cambridge, England
My ex had an abortion when we were together. It was a really enjoyable experience and the kid would totally have been better off being born into domestic violence.

Woo.

You also have the issues of girls putting pins through condoms, keeping the baby and claiming maintenance etc.

Woo again.

Last edited by Cheeky_Ninja06 (2012-08-27 12:18:07)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4442|London, England
If she is putting pin holes in a condom to get pregnant you think she eill turn around and get an abortion? Lol.

Don't fuck poor skanks. Problem solved.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
rdx-fx
...
+955|5676

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

You also have the issues of girls putting pins through condoms, keeping the baby and claiming maintenance etc.
Take your condom off in the bathroom, spike it with Tabasco before throwing it away.

Or, don't stick your dick in crazy.

Fuck's sake, man.. Am I the only person that was awake in the 6th grade boys health sciences class when they specifically covered "Don't stick your dick in crazy"?

I'm pretty sure it was just before the "sperm swimming towards the egg" video.
Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|5817|Cambridge, England
It wasn't my finest moment. Dont think somebody else should be forced to suffer it for the rest of their life tho.

P.s. condom split in this instance, sometimes shit happens.

Last edited by Cheeky_Ninja06 (2012-08-27 14:16:48)

Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|5529|The Land of Scott Walker

13urnzz wrote:

burnzz's wife wrote:

"why are you even giving those fools the time of day? let me guess, you're argueing abortion with guys? really? ask them what woman, oh nevermind. no woman is going to argue abortion. her mind is made up, even if she tells men that she is wrestling with it in her own mind."
uh, i got served when jsnipy closed the thread. turns out, that my being a man, am no authority on abortion. save your precious keystrokes Stingray for your fellow men that will debate you on the subject, and show them the mater-debator that you are!
Well, I asked my wife her thoughts on abortion and turns out she's against it.  Surprise!  Even asked a couple ladies who are facebook friends and they said the same thing.  Should I ask some post-menopausal ladies, too?
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|4263|Sydney
You pretty much proved Burnzz' point there...
Reciprocity
Member
+721|5665|the dank(super) side of Oregon

rdx-fx wrote:

Fuck's sake, man.. Am I the only person that was awake in the 6th grade boys health sciences class when they specifically covered "Don't stick your dick in crazy"?
indeed, that's the first thing boys hear.  Just like the first thing girls hear is, "With great pussy comes great responsibility.....but really, you can do whatever you want.  Have fun."

Last edited by Reciprocity (2012-08-28 00:15:29)

Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|5751

Like we ever listened to that advice.  In crazy, I mean.



Fond memories.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,753|5190|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

Don't fuck poor skanks. Problem solved.
You were a poor skank once.
#FreeBritney
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4442|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

Don't fuck poor skanks. Problem solved.
You were a poor skank once.
Never a skank
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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