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2012-08-14 15:29:44
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England

FEOS wrote:

Jay wrote:

Bonds are paid back with tax dollars.
That would contradict other posts you have made, referring to bonds as investments held by private citizens, fund managers, etc.

The money put up for the bonds is private equity, not tax dollars. Thus, the money used to build the stadium is not from taxes. If the municipality chooses to pay back the bonds via collected taxes, within existing budgets--a budget-neutral enterprise, which most bond projects are, otherwise they wouldn't use bonds to raise the funds--then it's no difference whatsoever to the tax payers. Those are sunk monies, regardless.
No, it doesn't contradict anything. Most bonds are issued by companies, but municipal bonds, like the ones that would've been issued by the town to fund the stadium, are government backed and paid for with tax dollars. How do you think cities, towns, and the feds borrow money? They issue bonds, they don't go to a bank and ask for a loan.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-08-14 15:31:48
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6650|'Murka

I fully realize this. But unless they raise taxes substantially to pay for them (these are usually a penny or fraction thereof added to an existing tax for a finite period of time), it's a non-issue. Plus, the municipality normally gets income from the facility, as well.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2012-08-14 15:32:39
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England

FEOS wrote:

I fully realize this. But unless they raise taxes substantially to pay for them (these are usually a penny or fraction thereof added to an existing tax for a finite period of time), it's a non-issue. Plus, the municipality normally gets income from the facility, as well.
I don't really care how it's paid for, I was just correcting you when you said it was paid for with bonds, not tax dollars.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-08-14 15:39:44
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6650|'Murka

Fair enough.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2012-08-14 15:51:23
HITNRUNXX
Member
+220|6949|Oklahoma City
Yes, Jay is right, but I think the point is this is a voted on tax that was decided by the people, not a city government throwing money around without the people's approval.
2012-08-14 15:59:04
HITNRUNXX
Member
+220|6949|Oklahoma City

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

pro teams are usually representing cities with hundreds of thousands of people, usually more like million +.  College teams can represent regions and many alumni who take an active interest in the school through alumni groups, boosters, fraternities, etc. Generally speaking, college and pro sports are played by athletes who are in the top 1% of their chosen activity.  Even if this high school football team is ranked #1 in the nation, it's not the same thing.  I don't think following a team full of 16 year-olds is the same as following college or pro sports by any measure.

I don't think saying that Texans have a hard-on for high school football is negative.  It's just bizarre.  Like California and its penchant for weed and prisons
84K people in this city. Millions in the surrounding area.

This team represents a region and many alumni take an active interest in the school through alumni groups, boosters, etc.

Generally speaking, people debate everyday one which is better to watch, pro versus college with the argument of one is the top x% and the other is a purer version of the sport played by people who aren't whiny babies about how they only made XX Million last year, when they think they should have made YY Million, so they are going to strike/change teams/bad mouth their coach and team on twitter, etc...

If anything, in a town like this, this high school is a BETTER representation of the community than a college would be. Colleges are usually made up of people from all over the nation. A small percentage of a college team is usually from the town where the college is. All these players are from there. They are the kids the people might see sacking groceries at the grocery store, in church, or at their kid's birthday party...

I still don't see how this is bizarre.

And the funny thing is, I started writing my post earlier against the stadium based on pre-existing prejudices... And after just a few minutes of research, I think it is a positive thing.
2012-08-14 16:39:49
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6871|949

Its bizarre because in most of the US-
High schools don't build $60M sports complex
High school sports don't draw 18K spectators
2012-08-14 16:47:55
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England
I think it's bizarre that Southern Californians are so hung up on body image but I don't write posts about it. ijs...
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-08-14 17:00:34
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6871|949

I don't write posts about how bizarre sports complexes are either. I respond and participate in discussions where certain things come up that I wouldn't otherwise give a passing thought to.
2012-08-14 17:03:02
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I don't write posts about how bizarre sports complexes are either. I respond and participate in discussions where certain things come up that I wouldn't otherwise give a passing thought to.
But yes, Texas is weird when it comes to sports. So is the whole south though. I don't understand the obsession with college sports.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-08-14 17:16:53
Adams_BJ
Russian warship, go fuck yourself
+2,054|6861|Little Bentcock
I got to watch the town high school sports competitions for free B)
2012-08-14 17:30:15
HITNRUNXX
Member
+220|6949|Oklahoma City

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Its bizarre because in most of the US-
High schools don't build $60M sports complex
High school sports don't draw 18K spectators
That is "bizarre" I agree... If by bizarre you just mean out of the ordinary...

However, the part of the conversation you were talking about is why anyone would bother going to a high school game. That is common nationwide, if not the 18K people. But then, 5K+ students at a high school isn't a normal size either...
2012-08-14 18:04:31
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6871|949

not questioning why anyone would bother, questioning why 18K would.  Thought I did a good job conveying that, but I guess not.  My high school had 3k students, but I have no idea what a normal sized school would be.

bizarre (not to be confused with bazaar) means out of the ordinary, so yes, that's what i meant when i said it.
2012-08-14 18:15:48
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England
My high school had around 350 students
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-08-14 22:57:59
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6920|Disaster Free Zone
My high school sports games had an average of about zero spectators. Was completely free yet no one turned up, and I wouldn't have expected them to.
My club sports games had maybe 50-100 spectators and almost all of those were the parents of the players or players of teams who played before or after our game. Also completely free. In both situations games where played on council ovals with little to no seating and nothing even close to a stadium.

Didn't even bother with uni sport, never saw a game so have no idea what spectators were like but I imagine not many. TBH don't even know where (or what for that matter) they played (we had no stadiums/grounds on the premises).

The fact any people turn up to non professional sports games especially in high school, who are not directly involved is completely foreign to me, the fact they pay is mind Boggling.
2012-08-15 11:51:47
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6650|'Murka

My high school of about 400 (110 or so in my senior class) regularly had attendance levels of 3500-ish for sporting events. Out of a town population of about 4500.

High attendance levels are not at all unusual for high school sports in certain parts of the country.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

 

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