Ex-Patriot Act?

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Ex-Patriot Act?

2012-05-17 16:34:02

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5825

I know it won't get passed but I find it interesting

Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., has a status update for Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin: Stop attempting to dodge your taxes by renouncing your U.S. citizenship or never come to back to the U.S. again.

In September 2011, Saverin relinquished his U.S. citizenship before the company announced its planned initial public offering of stock, which will debut this week. The move was likely a financial one, as he owns an estimated 4 percent of Facebook and stands to make $4 billion when the company goes public. Saverin would reap the benefit of tax savings by becoming a permanent resident of Singapore, which levies no capital gains taxes.

At a news conference this morning, Sens. Schumer and Bob Casey, D-Pa., will unveil the “Ex-PATRIOT” – “Expatriation Prevention by Abolishing Tax-Related Incentives for Offshore Tenancy” – Act to respond directly to Saverin’s move, which they dub a “scheme” that would “help him duck up to $67 million in taxes.”

The senators will call Saverin’s move an “outrage” and will outline their plan to re-impose taxes on expatriates like Saverin even after they flee the United States and take up residence in a foreign country. Their proposal would also impose a mandatory 30 percent tax on the capital gains of anybody who renounces their U.S. citizenship.

The plan would bar individuals like Saverin from ever reentering the United States again.

“Eduardo recently found it more practical to become a resident of Singapore since he plans to live there for an indefinite period of time,” Tom Goodman, Saverin’s spokesman, told Bloomberg News in an email.

Almost every message board I have read thinks this is wrong. I don't. I have a sort of ancient Greek like idea of citizenship as a somewhat sacred responsibility that confers a huge amount of privilege. I think citizenship actually means something. It's why I am okay with warrantless drone strikes anywhere as long as American citizens aren't hurt. Someone giving up their citizenship to avoid having to contribute to the state that guarantees their rights and protection is not cool. It's even worse that he would still be financially benefiting from the U.S. It's kinda treasonous imo.

I could be wrong. Maybe he doesn't owe the country anything and I'm just a hippy liberal douche.

2012-05-17 17:04:34

NeXuS: Shock it till ya know it; +375|6581|Atlanta, Georgia

I think as a human being you should be able to go anywhere and do as you please. No government should be able to tell you where you can and cannot go. That just sounds ridiculous in my mind.

2012-05-17 17:16:55

Doctor Strangelove: Real Battlefield Veterinarian.; +1,758|6707

NeXuS wrote:
I think as a human being you should be able to go anywhere and do as you please. No government should be able to tell you where you can and cannot go. That just sounds ridiculous in my mind.

So you think that illegal immigration should be legal?

2012-05-17 17:21:32

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|7011|PNW

It's an outrage that he didn't give that money directly to said senators.

2012-05-17 17:27:51

Adams_BJ: Russian warship, go fuck yourself; +2,054|6862|Little Bentcock

I'm mixed, I had a similar outlook to you at the start of your post, but by the end of you post I was asking myself "Why should he be forced to pay taxes to a country he no longer lives in, is no longer a citizen of, and to which taxes would no longer affect him?"

As to stopping him from returning to the US, why? Can't you just issue him a holiday visa when he wishes to return? What is the current legislation in regards to foreigners owning property in the US? It's not like he broke the law, so there's no reason to bar him from returning.

but you know, there's lots I don't know about both sides.

2012-05-17 17:32:28

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|7011|PNW

Capitalist society. Perhaps there should be an incentive for him to stay and pay taxes.

2012-05-17 17:33:47

Adams_BJ: Russian warship, go fuck yourself; +2,054|6862|Little Bentcock

I would fully understand if he planned to stay in the US but have be a Singapore citizen, but he actually living in Singapore, isn't he?

2012-05-17 18:23:38

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6955

Renouncing US citizenship is actually REALLY REALLY hard and you have to prove that due to your current living conditions, if you don't renounced you have "undue hardship" Unless Saverine gets Singaporean Citizenship, I highly doubt he would be able to renounce since being stateless is just fucking retarded.

US government is fucking retarded when it comes to taxing individuals despite them living overseas, oh lol double taxation here we go.

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2012-05-17 18:24:16

RAIMIUS: You with the face!; +244|6954|US

Stupid idea, IMO.

2012-05-17 18:25:24

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6955

Adams_BJ wrote:
I'm mixed, I had a similar outlook to you at the start of your post, but by the end of you post I was asking myself "Why should he be forced to pay taxes to a country he no longer lives in, is no longer a citizen of, and to which taxes would no longer affect him?"

As to stopping him from returning to the US, why? Can't you just issue him a holiday visa when he wishes to return? What is the current legislation in regards to foreigners owning property in the US? It's not like he broke the law, so there's no reason to bar him from returning.

but you know, there's lots I don't know about both sides.

Foreigners can get a green card/ Permanent residency by investing in a US business for over 500,000+ and employ 11 Americans or some shit like that. But for housing property the US is not as strict as Australia, where you HAVE TO use the property for residential purposes and not investment purposes (if you're a non-citizen/ PR).

2012-05-17 18:47:36

Superior Mind: (not macbeth); +1,755|6932

unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Capitalist society. Perhaps there should be an incentive for him to stay and pay taxes.

For someone who is a billionaire or going to become a billionaire, perhaps the rights that we cherish as ordinary citizens do not appeal to him as his wealth affords him the ability to seek first rate service of any kind in many other places.

Last edited by Superior Mind (2012-05-17 18:51:58)

2012-05-17 22:25:58

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|7011|PNW

We could always nationalize individual millionaires and billionaires.

2012-05-18 00:15:12

Spearhead: Gulf coast redneck hippy; +731|6929|Tampa Bay Florida

Doing this for tax purposes is beyond sleazy. Especially since his primary source of income/business is located here. Fuck loopholes and fuck him, he should never come back and we should look the other way when China will eventually rule all of Asia. I hope they send this guy to a sweatshop and piss on him while he's making my next iphone.

2012-05-18 00:30:12

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6955

Spearhead wrote:
Doing this for tax purposes is beyond sleazy. Especially since his primary source of income/business is located here. Fuck loopholes and fuck him, he should never come back and we should look the other way when China will eventually rule all of Asia. I hope they send this guy to a sweatshop and piss on him while he's making my next iphone.

Why should he pay tax in the US if he's living overseas? Americans are the only people in the world who still have to file tax returns wherever you live. I highly doubt he's going to obtain Singaporean citizenship, as 1. Singapore does not allow dual nationality and 2. His bitch ass will be in the Singaporean Army for 2 years.

Giving up US citizenship because of not wanting to pay taxes is pretty stupid imo... The benefits of American citizenship is far better.

Adams: If you're a former citizen, you can get former citizen residency visa's or get a normal visa and treated like any other foreign nationals.

This would become interesting if the US passes a social media law which restricts foreign ownership similar to traditional media.

2012-05-18 19:15:30

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX

NeXuS wrote:
I think as a human being you should be able to go anywhere and do as you please. No government should be able to tell you where you can and cannot go. That just sounds ridiculous in my mind.

I think if you conduct business and/or own assets in a country you should be taxed proportionally.

Or feel free not to do so and enjoy living in your tax-free haven.

The middle ground, where people are rich enough to manipulate governments in multiple countries but pay no tax in them, eg Murdoch, Halliburton etc, is unacceptable.

Fuck Israel

2012-05-18 22:10:52

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6955

Dilbert_X wrote:
NeXuS wrote:
I think as a human being you should be able to go anywhere and do as you please. No government should be able to tell you where you can and cannot go. That just sounds ridiculous in my mind.
I think if you conduct business and/or own assets in a country you should be taxed proportionally.

Or feel free not to do so and enjoy living in your tax-free haven.

The middle ground, where people are rich enough to manipulate governments in multiple countries but pay no tax in them, eg Murdoch, Halliburton etc, is unacceptable.

I'm pretty sure any money earned on the stock market is tax regardless of citizenship status.

2012-05-18 22:35:10

Hurricane2k9: Pendulous Sweaty Balls; +1,538|5941|College Park, MD

i'll take his citizenship

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg

2012-05-19 06:08:36

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX

Macbeth wrote:
It's why I am okay with warrantless drone strikes anywhere as long as American citizens aren't hurt.

Nice.

I'm OK with black people being killed.

Fuck Israel

2012-05-20 23:51:56

Spearhead: Gulf coast redneck hippy; +731|6929|Tampa Bay Florida

I'll be honest. The fact that he's an immigrant makes this whole thing much worse. It's bad enough to be born here, make some money, and leave. But to come here, swear an oath to our country, take advantage of our education system, and then leave.... is just outright disgraceful.

Oh, and here's a rich-worshipping libertarian being contrarian for contrarians sake. http://www.libertarianism.org/blog/what … do-saverin We've got it all wrong, didn't you know? WE owe HIM!!!

..... /shotguntotheface

2012-05-21 01:53:27

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6955

Spearhead wrote:
I'll be honest. The fact that he's an immigrant makes this whole thing much worse. It's bad enough to be born here, make some money, and leave. But to come here, swear an oath to our country, take advantage of our education system, and then leave.... is just outright disgraceful.

Oh, and here's a rich-worshipping libertarian being contrarian for contrarians sake. http://www.libertarianism.org/blog/what … do-saverin We've got it all wrong, didn't you know? WE owe HIM!!!

..... /shotguntotheface

I doubt he would be able to successfully renounce US citizenship, they're already tightening renunciation in the US and its a long ass fucking process.

oh and lol

Under 8 U.S.C. 1182, “any alien who is a former citizen of the United States who officially renounces United States citizenship and who is determined by the Attorney General to have renounced United States citizenship for the purpose of avoiding taxation” is inadmissible to the United States, that is ineligible for entry to the United States.

http://canberra.usembassy.gov/renunciation.html

Last edited by Cybargs (2012-05-21 01:58:15)

2012-05-21 09:39:47

jord: Member; +2,382|6917|The North, beyond the wall.

Spearhead wrote:
I'll be honest. The fact that he's an immigrant makes this whole thing much worse. It's bad enough to be born here, make some money, and leave. But to come here, swear an oath to our country, take advantage of our education system, and then leave.... is just outright disgraceful.

Oh, and here's a rich-worshipping libertarian being contrarian for contrarians sake. http://www.libertarianism.org/blog/what … do-saverin We've got it all wrong, didn't you know? WE owe HIM!!!

..... /shotguntotheface

So once you go to school in the US you can never leave? Or do you think once you've made an income in the US you shouldn't be able to leave?

Land of the free (but you can't leave).

Last edited by jord (2012-05-21 09:40:03)

2012-05-21 10:16:34

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6955

jord wrote:
Spearhead wrote:
I'll be honest. The fact that he's an immigrant makes this whole thing much worse. It's bad enough to be born here, make some money, and leave. But to come here, swear an oath to our country, take advantage of our education system, and then leave.... is just outright disgraceful.

Oh, and here's a rich-worshipping libertarian being contrarian for contrarians sake. http://www.libertarianism.org/blog/what … do-saverin We've got it all wrong, didn't you know? WE owe HIM!!!

..... /shotguntotheface
So once you go to school in the US you can never leave? Or do you think once you've made an income in the US you shouldn't be able to leave?

Land of the free (but you can't leave).

He became a naturalized citizen and swore an oath, and yes that verbal oath is legally binding. But if he renounces his citizenship because of taxation purposes, legally he won't be able to enter the US ever again.

I feel its kinda like lots of dual citizens of Australia that come over, get their uni fees on HECS (gov student loan/thingy) and never pay it back and they fuck off from Australia. bit of a dick move imo.

2012-05-21 10:34:11

jord: Member; +2,382|6917|The North, beyond the wall.

Cybargs wrote:
jord wrote:
Spearhead wrote:
I'll be honest. The fact that he's an immigrant makes this whole thing much worse. It's bad enough to be born here, make some money, and leave. But to come here, swear an oath to our country, take advantage of our education system, and then leave.... is just outright disgraceful.

Oh, and here's a rich-worshipping libertarian being contrarian for contrarians sake. http://www.libertarianism.org/blog/what … do-saverin We've got it all wrong, didn't you know? WE owe HIM!!!

..... /shotguntotheface
So once you go to school in the US you can never leave? Or do you think once you've made an income in the US you shouldn't be able to leave?

Land of the free (but you can't leave).
He became a naturalized citizen and swore an oath, and yes that verbal oath is legally binding. But if he renounces his citizenship because of taxation purposes, legally he won't be able to enter the US ever again.

I feel its kinda like lots of dual citizens of Australia that come over, get their uni fees on HECS (gov student loan/thingy) and never pay it back and they fuck off from Australia. bit of a dick move imo.

I wasn't asking a sincere question, i was putting the adsurdity of what spearhead was saying to him.

2012-05-21 11:27:32

HITNRUNXX: Member; +220|6949|Oklahoma City

Just a thought...

From what I understand, a lot of our military re-ups while overseas, so that they get their re-up bonus tax free. Since they were not in the United States when they made that income, they don't have to pay income tax on it...

So why is it that a citizen that lives out of country, and makes his income while he is out of country should be forced to decide between paying an income on that money (potentially to two different countries) or renounce his citizenship?

So here is the thing:
In this particular case, this guy was born in Brazil.
In 1993 he moved to the U.S.
He graduated college in 2006.
In 2009 he moved to Singapore...

This isn't like he just moved over there to avoid the IPO taxes. He has been living there for a while... So according to some of the logic here, any income he now makes, he should have to pay income taxes to Brazil, The U.S., and Singapore.

So why SHOULD he have to pay taxes on his income to the U.S.? He isn't using any of our services. He isn't living here.

I don't say "That is a dick move, Eduardo."

I say "That is a dick move, America."

2012-05-21 13:32:33

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6955

HITNRUNXX wrote:
Just a thought...

From what I understand, a lot of our military re-ups while overseas, so that they get their re-up bonus tax free. Since they were not in the United States when they made that income, they don't have to pay income tax on it...

You don't pay income tax from overseas earnings unless its over 100k per annum. I'm pretty sure Mr. Eduardo makes more than that.

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NeXuS wrote:

Adams_BJ wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

NeXuS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

NeXuS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

jord wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

jord wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

HITNRUNXX wrote:

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