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Collateralis
Beep bep.
+85|5454|Stealth on Grand Bazaar
Many of you will hate tankers, its understandable as those who are any good ruin any chance of an even game. But post-patch you'll notice RPGs do more damage, jets now rape tanks into the ground with rocket pods and Javelins are now essentially a 1 hit kill (75% dmg), even if you run Reactive Armour. There are some interesting if not ludicrous facts too- Tanks and Humvee's now take the same number of TOW/Kornet missiles to be destroyed from the side. APC's still take 3.

To completely nerf one of the biggest playmakers in the game - a tank - is idiocy. Tanks creep with infantry, they lead the assault on flags, they can even cap. Yet DICE have decided to remove the ability to harness them by making them fragile as paper. Jets and Choppers now rape so badly it's unlikely you will make any impact on the game in armour. What are tankers and others findings post-patch?

And no trolling/realism crap. I'm interested in a debate.

Last edited by nighthawk843 (2012-04-19 12:26:31)

AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,760|5237|what

1 hit kill =/= 75%
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"
Camm
Feeding the Cats.
+761|4052|Dundee, Scotland.
I'm in your camp. I was rolling round caspian in a tank today, then WHAM WHAM WHAM WHAM WHAM dead. Railed by half a volley of rockets from a plane. Wtf.

Pre-patch I would have taken an entire volley of pods from a jet, jumped out, repaired and moved away from the open.

Now you get fucked straight in to the ground by jets and helis. and infantry. and a light breeze. It's ridiculous, they've pretty much taken tanks out of the game.

And even if you manage to survive a strafe from a jet/chopper, when you get out to repair, it's like using a fucking toothbrush to repair your tank now.

Fucking cunts.
for a fatty you're a serious intellectual lightweight.
steelie34
pub hero!
+603|5465|the land of bourbon

Camm wrote:

Pre-patch I would have taken an entire volley of pods from a jet, jumped out, repaired and moved away from the open.
pre-patch was not realistic at all.  a jet/heli should be able to rape a tank with one strafing run.  it was a fucking joke before that i had to hit an entire volley of rockets AND a tv missle to kill a tank.  thats ridiculous.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/36e1d9e36ae924048a933db90fb05bb247fe315e.png
Collateralis
Beep bep.
+85|5454|Stealth on Grand Bazaar

steelie34 wrote:

pre-patch was not realistic at all.  a jet/heli should be able to rape a tank with one strafing run.  it was a fucking joke before that i had to hit an entire volley of rockets AND a tv missle to kill a tank.  thats ridiculous.
You used the word realistic. Forgive me but there is no realism in throwing a med pack down to heal you, thats a fucking joke if we are talking in realistic terms. It's not about realism, it's about an appropriate balance. People seem to confuse the two. I have no issue with a 1 hit kill on TV missile, if we are talking appropriate balance I think the removal of 3D map spotting would help the problem. Jet's can hit tanks from so far away because of the orange sign above them saying "Oh this is realism, you can see me with a triangle above my head". Without this spotting function pilots would have to be much closer to the target to see it, and would have to be more skilled in placing those deadly rounds. Battlefield 2 had it down with 2 bomb/1 TV missile for a kill - noone moaned about vehicle balance there. The issue is 3D spotting with this reduction of armour protection makes it impossible to avoid being detected by random spotting, which unlike BF2, does not remain HUD/Minimap based.

Last edited by nighthawk843 (2012-03-30 07:08:36)

Camm
Feeding the Cats.
+761|4052|Dundee, Scotland.

steelie34 wrote:

Camm wrote:

Pre-patch I would have taken an entire volley of pods from a jet, jumped out, repaired and moved away from the open.
pre-patch was not realistic at all.  a jet/heli should be able to rape a tank with one strafing run.  it was a fucking joke before that i had to hit an entire volley of rockets AND a tv missle to kill a tank.  thats ridiculous.
Okay... if that's the case it's swung to far in favour of the jets and helis

And before someone says "yeah but you can take out a heli or jet with one tank shell"... it's not that easy.
for a fatty you're a serious intellectual lightweight.
steelie34
pub hero!
+603|5465|the land of bourbon

nighthawk843 wrote:

steelie34 wrote:

pre-patch was not realistic at all.  a jet/heli should be able to rape a tank with one strafing run.  it was a fucking joke before that i had to hit an entire volley of rockets AND a tv missle to kill a tank.  thats ridiculous.
You used the word realistic. Forgive me but there is no realism in throwing a med pack down to heal you, thats a fucking joke if we are talking in realistic terms. It's not about realism, it's about an appropriate balance. People seem to confuse the two. I have no issue with a 1 hit kill on TV missile, if we are talking appropriate balance I think the removal of 3D map spotting would help the problem. Jet's can hit tanks from so far away because of the orange sign above them saying "Oh this is realism, you can see me with a triangle above my head". Without this spotting function pilots would have to be much closer to the target to see it, and would have to be more skilled in placing those deadly rounds. Battlefield 2 had it down with 2 bomb/1 TV missile for a kill - noone moaned about vehicle balance there. The issue is 3D spotting with this reduction of armour protection makes it impossible to avoid being detected by random spotting, which unlike BF2, does not remain HUD/Minimap based.
i agree, balance is the more appropriate word, but 3d spotting is what keeps the game from being a sniper-fest.  i just think the balance should be closer to what you would expect in a real world battle.  i laugh when it takes 5 solid hits from the .50 cal on the tank to kill an infy man.  one round would take a head clean off, but that would of course make the tanks severely overpowered.

everyone constantly complained about air balance in bf2, since the AA was very weak against the air vehicles.  bf3 has it about right with stingers and portable AA's being much more potent, so that being said, one tv missle or rocket volley should destroy, not disable, a vehicle.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/36e1d9e36ae924048a933db90fb05bb247fe315e.png
jsnipy
...
+3,275|5607|...

A weaker tank promotes team work to keep it repaired?

I think the weaknesss to rocket pods is good. Not that this game is all realistic but that is one thing that should be since there are no bombs.
Collateralis
Beep bep.
+85|5454|Stealth on Grand Bazaar

jsnipy wrote:

A weaker tank promotes team work to keep it repaired?

I think the weaknesss to rocket pods is good. Not that this game is all realistic but that is one thing that should be since there are no bombs.
In an ideal world a medic would revive you. Teamwork isn't seen as important by the majority of the BF3 world.
west-phoenix-az
Guns don't kill people. . . joe bidens advice does
+632|5473
To me it seems tanks were a little overpowered before. Now they take damage really quick. Should be somewhere in between.
https://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/west-phoenix-az/BF2S/bf2s_sig_9mmbrass.jpg
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,719|5821|Oxferd Ohire
its a tank. they were fine
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
-CARNIFEX-[LOC]
Da Blooze
+111|5738
Incoming text wall....

This is the old DICE routine of making weaker things too powerful, and powerful things too weak.

I was fine with jets and choppers being made more effective, but tanks die ridiculously quick. I was always for the TV killing in one hit, as it takes more skill to use it than just about any other weapon in the game, but the sum of the changes makes tanks feel almost worthless on air maps. As was said, it just feels like it went too far in the opposite direction.

All the talk about "it takes a team to operate the vehicles now" is all fine and great, but it takes a team to do just about any of this IRL. I don't think we have legions of solo javelin wielding engineers out there in the field, but there it is in this game...little to no teamwork or skill required to look in a target's general vicinity, wait for a lock sound, and click a button for a kill...so given the huge variety of things that are viable as a solo player in this game, making tanks ridiculously hard to keep alive unless you have 2 dedicated repair specialists seems sort of excessive, especially since those two repairers probably still aren't even enough to keep you alive for 2 minutes in the open.

The fog of war was/is a very important aspect to survivability in BF2 that a lot of people don't discuss regarding BF2/BF3 differences, but it was one of the key balancing features between ground and air units. It's absent from BF3, and coupled with the spotting system and all of the other recent changes, most ground vehicles get simply reamed. If you see a jet or heli lining you up, there is very little you can do to avoid outright death, even with 2 engineers with you. The rockets will still kill you, and likely them, if they get out pre-emptively to heal you and you hold fast in the vehicle. If they both pull out stingers there is a good chance they will flat out miss their target, nullifying that as an effective option as well. APCs are a little faster/agile, so I seemed to survive just a bit longer, but they are also weaker, and it's really hard to get teammates willing to sit at those puny port machineguns while you drive around, who are willing to hop out and instantly heal you if needed.

The result is that it now seems MUCH harder to keep a tank alive than an attack helicopter, and even as a certifiable heli whore that bothers me. The helicopter has always seemed like the most specialized vehicle in BF games - fragile, but very deadly if you know what to do. I was fine with having to often hop out and repair as heli gunner, but in a tank that pretty much equals a death every time if you're going against air. Another problem is vehicles remaining disabled until they are at 100%...not 90, not 99, but 100% (and the increased reverse speed while disabled never seemed to make a difference in my survival post-patch). By the time an engineer has you back to that point and you can move full speed again, the fast jets on these small maps will already have you lined up again. Rinse and repeat....not fun. Jets and helicopters don't run out of munitions, either, so they never have to break off to go reload over the airfield. It's just repetitive circles of ownage all day. Great.

Yes it should require some element of teamwork to keep vehicles going, but the tanks have become a bit ridiculous. Even mobile AA and Huey miniguns can disable a tank in well under 10 seconds. A small caliber minigun, disabling a tank with a foot of armor plating. Fuck's sake.

I killed probably 10 tanks last night using mobile AA and APCs. They weren't even close engagements. The tank is even weaker against air, and now against ground units too. They are vulnerable to everything but small arms, and give it a patch or two and maybe that will change as well.

The word "tank" has become synonymous with something very hard to defeat/kill, and in this game, it simply does not hold true.

Last edited by -CARNIFEX-[LOC] (2012-03-30 09:52:50)

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/12516/Bitch%20Hunter%20Sig.jpg
UnkleRukus
That Guy
+236|4120|Massachusetts, USA
I'm sure battlelog forums are flooded with hundreds of similar topics about tanks. I'm willing to bet we will see a hot fix in our near future.


I haven't played the post patch version. Does ERA help at all? Or is it just cosmetic now.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
Cbass
Kick His Ass!
+371|5778|Howell, Mi USA
Thats why tanks have countermeasures........ use them. They work. If u pop smoke it disrupts all LGMs, even after its fired. Just throwing that out there.....
https://bf3s.com/sigs/bb53a522780eff5b30ba3252d44932cc2f5b8c4f.png
UnkleRukus
That Guy
+236|4120|Massachusetts, USA

Cbass wrote:

Thats why tanks have countermeasures........ use them. They work. If u pop smoke it disrupts all LGMs, even after its fired. Just throwing that out there.....
Tanks are weak, there is no sugar coating it.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
Naturn
Deeds, not words.
+311|5690|Greenwood, IN
I still think they don't test their shit before release.  How hard would it be to load a few servers with a pre-patch and ask people to play?
aerodynamic
FOCKING HELL
+241|4838|Roma
coz people whine that ht patch is not coming out soon and then whine when they they do release the patch.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/8ea27f2d75b353b0a18b096ed75ec5e142da7cc2.png
FFLink
There is.
+1,380|5775|Devon, England
I have no issue. With a good team, you can keep a tank going strong. If you're a loner or have a crap gunner (who isn't an Engineer) then you're gonna fail and you deserve to fail.

Am I the only one happy with a lot of this post-patch stuff?
Cbass
Kick His Ass!
+371|5778|Howell, Mi USA
Im happy with the patch. Honestly, im glad the Javelin isnt totally useless anymore.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/bb53a522780eff5b30ba3252d44932cc2f5b8c4f.png
^DD^GRiPS
American Hillbilly
+12|5883|Long Beach, CA
I think tanks could be a little more durable but instead of using proximity scanner now I use reactive armor and that is the key to making the tank stand up to more punishment.  Ya I may get a bold support c4 me a little more often than before but I can deal with the other threats just fine.  Smoke...is an underrated counter measure for vehicles most people don't know how to use right. 

The other thing you need to realize as a tanker is when to let the tank die so you can keep on keeping on.  I am really good on foot so if I happen to not be able to repair my tank enough to stay with it then by all means I let it take one for the team as I get 2 or 3 more kills on foot or happen upon another tank.  I guess you can say I use tanks like kleenex, they are kinda disposable more so now and I am okay with that.

The moral of this story is not about why changes are made or what would be best to balance the game but rather how you as a soldier can adapt to what the changes are.  It seems the feedback of the users are always split....the game is great or its crap.  I see little middle ground among users.  Me?  I just adapt and keep on doing my damn thang.

Last edited by ^DD^GRiPS (2012-04-08 19:20:39)

Ptfo
BVC
Member
+325|5780
Buffing air unbalances the game.  We saw this in BF2, and it wasn't a good thing.
Blade4509
Wrench turnin' fool
+202|4593|America

Pubic wrote:

Buffing air unbalances the game.  We saw this in BF2, and it wasn't a good thing.
Nah, man ohks across the map with tv guided missiles, one burst from rocket pods, and especially two jav hits when everyone on the map can be engineer is total balance.
"Raise the flag high! Let the degenerates know who comes to claim their lives this day!"
aerodynamic
FOCKING HELL
+241|4838|Roma
Played tank yesterday on firestorm and i don't know what you guys are on about, went on a 20 kill streak with the abrahams...
https://bf3s.com/sigs/8ea27f2d75b353b0a18b096ed75ec5e142da7cc2.png
The A W S M F O X
I Won't Deny It
+172|4768|SQUID
It's not too bad really, if you're smart and know your angles and have a decent team the tank will do just fine, and in fact dominate. With poor tank strategy, team and any decent un-harrased enemy airpower you will get slammed. It's the same in BF2, people just expect everything to be invincible and don't realise alot of factors go into doing well with armour. If the conditions aren't right, I won't bother getting in.

Last edited by The A W S M F O X (2012-04-10 09:09:06)

-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|4558|Ventura, California
Tanks are fine on the 360. They don't seem any more or less fragile. However, any damage done takes forever to repair.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.

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