tillaswarlordsoldier
Member
+0|6942
In my experience playing cooperative team-based fps games, I am usually a medic.  I played Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory for upwards of two years before playing BF2, and I was usually a medic, so it is understandable that I started out by playing medic and that my first unlock was the medic unlock, the L85.
  I thought that it was just INSANE to give a medic a gun that could essentially act as a sniper rifle.  I continued playing medic a lot, playing city maps a lot and doing a lot of infantry fighting.  When I'm a medic, I use the medic tools equally to heal others and to help myself kill more people.
  A little while after reaching cpl (pre-patch) I tried the ak-101 at karkand because I had heard someone say that they liked the basic weapons better than the L85.  I realized that they were right.  I was MUCH more deadly with the basic weapons.  I DO know how to use the L85, and have used it extensively, but I still prefer the basic weapons, and here's why for each one.
  AK-101- This has to be my favorite weapon in all of BF2, except for maybe the copilot laser guided bombs in the bomber.  The L85 is MUCH weaker than the AK-101 at close range and has greater spread, so you end up trying to force the L85 down to kill someone rather than just pointing the AK-101 at someone's head and destroying them.  When it comes to long range, the L85 is obviously better, but I like the AK-101 because you can kill someone faster.  Rather than pop-pop-popping away with the L85, you can always put the AK-101 on burst and kill someone right away on top of a roof, provided you have good aim.  It is useful to kill someone at range more quickly because every spec ops and his dog has a G36C, which will often mow you down from range if you're using the L85, but you will damage a spec ops.
  M16A2- same as the AK-101, except for the burst.  It makes the gun a little harder to control, like the L85, but after practicing controlling the L85, you should be fine.
  AK-47- This is my least favorite of the 3, mostly because it isn't useful at long range.  It still has less recoil than the L85, I think, but it pwns at close range because it does so much damage.  I almost would use the L85 when playing as China because the maps are all so spread out, but I don't play China very often, and when you're on Chinese maps, you're usually in a vehicle, travelling to the next spawn.
  It reallycomes down to the type of medic that you are.  If you are an assault medic, go with the non-L85 gun because they're just more powerful, and you are going to be attacking on the front lines.  If you are a support medic, take the L85 to pick of people from far away while helping teammates attack spawn points.  You might die more, but If you DO die from a ranged gun, you probably are going to have dealt enough damage to that person that your teammates will be able to finish him off.
beeng
Get C4, here!
+66|6973

L85 is not supposed to be 'better', since it has the same damage per minute.  It is supposed to be an alternative.  The scope gives you that little bit of extra range.  Sure the m16 is more accurate than the l85.. but the iron sights aren't very accurate ;D
When I play karkand I usually go AK... when i play bigger, more open area maps I pick the l85 for the range/sights.
BUDFORCE
Moderator Emeritus
+76|6959|London UK

Personally I hate the L85A1.

Infact ive unlocked every weapon but that one. Maybe I dont know how to use it properly, all I know it I couldnt hit a thing with it and I kill more with teh other guns.
Kobrakai
Weirdo
+152|6975|England
I can kill more people with the shock pads than the L85A1.

Everything > L85A1

imo.

(did I mention I dont like the L85A1?)

Last edited by Kobrakai (2005-10-30 10:03:10)

DUFFKING
Insert witty comment here
+3|6945|Brixham, UK
L85 was my last unlock, and I find it to be a good solid choice when playing as CPA or USMC. As MEC, I'm not sure which I prefer. But my Medic combat has improved since I got the L85, thats for sure.
Incontrovertible
Member
+1|6960|Brisbane, Australia

beeng wrote:

L85 is not supposed to be 'better', since it has the same damage per minute.  It is supposed to be an alternative.  The scope gives you that little bit of extra range.  Sure the m16 is more accurate than the l85.. but the iron sights aren't very accurate ;D
When I play karkand I usually go AK... when i play bigger, more open area maps I pick the l85 for the range/sights.
Err, the Medic Unlock is weaker

https://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7775/weaponstats8ff.jpg
beeng
Get C4, here!
+66|6973

Incontrovertible wrote:

Err, the Medic Unlock is weaker
WHY DOES NO ONE READ THE GODDAMNMOTHERFUCKINGGORRAMCOCKSUCKER POSTS!?!?!?

I SAID "damage per minute."

READ THE FUCKING POSTS!!!!!


...FUCK!


[breathes]
[Ahazi] Kaika
The Suicidal Soldier
+3|6948

beeng wrote:

Incontrovertible wrote:

Err, the Medic Unlock is weaker
WHY DOES NO ONE READ THE GODDAMNMOTHERFUCKINGGORRAMCOCKSUCKER POSTS!?!?!?

I SAID "damage per minute."

READ THE FUCKING POSTS!!!!!


...FUCK!


[breathes]
Woah, calm dowm m8.

Anyway, I love the L85.  'Twas my first unlock and I always use it, especially on Karkand.  I guess I've just got the twitchy burst fingers to maintin my accuracy at close range, but I've slaughtered all types of troops with that gun.  Yes, even people with the AK-101 in a 1 on 1 fight.  I usually play USMC on Karkand, so that scenario tends to come up often.  I think you just have to be good with it, I dunno.  I'm always in the fray, running around, reviving, healing, and being a frontline assault troop with the L85.  'course, now that I have the DAO-12, well of course I use that on Karkand more often, but on bigger maps, I still go to the L85.  I love that gun.
beeng
Get C4, here!
+66|6973

[Ahazi] Kaika wrote:

Woah, calm dowm m8.

Anyway, I love the L85.  'Twas my first unlock and I always use it, especially on Karkand.  I guess I've just got the twitchy burst fingers to maintin my accuracy at close range, but I've slaughtered all types of troops with that gun.  Yes, even people with the AK-101 in a 1 on 1 fight.  I usually play USMC on Karkand, so that scenario tends to come up often.  I think you just have to be good with it, I dunno.  I'm always in the fray, running around, reviving, healing, and being a frontline assault troop with the L85.  'course, now that I have the DAO-12, well of course I use that on Karkand more often, but on bigger maps, I still go to the L85.  I love that gun.
Don't tell me to calm down ... if you knew me you'd know that -this is calm-.

I prefer the AK in close quarters battles because it has a higher damage per shot, resulting in better medium-range one-shot-kills.  The AK can even one-shot-kill headshot
Incontrovertible
Member
+1|6960|Brisbane, Australia

beeng wrote:

Incontrovertible wrote:

Err, the Medic Unlock is weaker
WHY DOES NO ONE READ THE GODDAMNMOTHERFUCKINGGORRAMCOCKSUCKER POSTS!?!?!?

I SAID "damage per minute."

READ THE FUCKING POSTS!!!!!


...FUCK!


[breathes]
I did, and you said  'same damage per minute'. The Medic gun doesn't do that because it won't hit as much.

Swearing is for the weak.

Last edited by Incontrovertible (2005-10-31 18:07:34)

beeng
Get C4, here!
+66|6973

Incontrovertible wrote:

I did, and you said  'same damage per minute'. The Medic gun doesn't do that because it won't hit as much.

Swearing is for the weak.
"it won't hit as much", despite the fact it has better accuracy than the ak?  Besides, if it hits or not is a function of the distance, deviation, and firing position.  Damage per minute assumes every round hits;  all three weapons have the same damage per minute.

swearing is fucking fun.
Incontrovertible
Member
+1|6960|Brisbane, Australia
The Medic guns deviations are worse, which means it won't hit as much.
pinky_81
Member
+1|6977|Denmark
But still most people hit better with the L85 after a while..?? The scope does make it easier to hit - better weapon accuracy is not neccesary the same as hitting more often!!

Not everything is in the numbers...
Incontrovertible
Member
+1|6960|Brisbane, Australia

pinky_81 wrote:

But still most people hit better with the L85 after a while..?? The scope does make it easier to hit - better weapon accuracy is not neccesary the same as hitting more often!!

Not everything is in the numbers...
If you read these forums then apparently they are.
beeng
Get C4, here!
+66|6973

Incontrovertible wrote:

The Medic guns deviations are worse, which means it won't hit as much.
All of the guns' deviations are worse?

Write a concise reply and you might have some ground left to stand on
Incontrovertible
Member
+1|6960|Brisbane, Australia
And what is wrong with you looking at the table above? Per shot added.
Dr.Battlefield
Got milk?
+150|6939
AK-101 (prone, 3-shot bursts, zoomed):
(0.45*1) + (0.25+0.25)*0.8 + [(0.4+0.4)*0.8] = 1.49 Deviation on third shot.

L85A1 (same conditions):
(0.3*1.2) + (0.3+0.3)*0.8 + [(0.3+0.3)*0.6] = 1.2 Deviation on third shot.
-----------------------------------
Now I guess most common shooting combination on Strike at K.

AK-101 (crouching, 3 shots, not zoomed) :
(0.45*1.3) + 0.25 + 0.25 + (0.4+0.4) = 1.885 (3rd shot)

L85A1 (same):
(0.3*1.3) + 0.3 + 0.3 + (0.3 + 0.3) = 1.59
In zoomed mode nothing changes L85A1 is still ahead. So L85A1 is more accurate anyway.

The problem is the low(lower than AK) damage of L85A1 . If  you are shooting from the hip you will need about 5 hits to kill with AK-101 (lets say that you r not a sniper, but who knows ) and lets say that you r shooting 3-round bursts + 1 bullet from each burst miss, so you will need about 2-3 bursts to kill. With L85A1 since the damage is 32 and AK damage 37 you will need about 7 hits or 4-5 bursts. ! burst is about 0.8-1 sec. and your enemy will have 2 more secs. to make a beef from you.
Other problem with L85 is its low reliability somewhere between middle and close ranges. Sure with L85 single shot  you can hit any1 if hes far enough or with 3- burst fire you can do the same on the middle range. Because on these ranges you can relax, you have time to control yourself etc., when enemy is close you just pull the trigger and thats it. But there is some kind of 'blind' or 'dead' zone somewhere btw close and medium ranges. It often happens on Strike of K. when you spot the enemy and he spots  you at the same time so first reaction(again not with every1, but basicly always) is just shoot a loooong burst and empty your clip. Thats the move when L85A1 'sucks'.... sry..... People with AK just 'push the button' and because AK has lower deviation per shot + higher damage you may not to care about control. All you need is to see that flashing cross=hit. Thats it, your target is laying down. With L85, which has one of the worse deviation per shot value, you will not be able to shoot long burst. Only way is start moving and aim for the headshot. So, as someone said before if you are fan of Strike K. map choose AK-101(my choice), on the other maps like Wake Island  L85A1 can make a lot of pain if you use it properly and dont go in front lines a la Assault. Ops Long post heh.

AHHH LAST 1: TRY GO PRONE ALL THE TIME WHEN YOU ARE SHOOTING WITH L85A1, USE ZOOM AND GO FOR THE HEADSHOT. THAT REALLY HELPS. (tested)

Last edited by Dr.Battlefield (2005-11-01 14:22:56)

beeng
Get C4, here!
+66|6973

Incontrovertible wrote:

And what is wrong with you looking at the table above? Per shot added.
[gets chainsaw] clearly someone is not reading what I am saying.  all of the weapons have the same damage per minute.  in 1 second both weapons would do the same damage.  AK has more damage per shot, but has a slower RPM.

@dr battlefield: word. ... and I was the one who said AK all the way for S@K ;D
Incontrovertible
Member
+1|6960|Brisbane, Australia

beeng wrote:

Incontrovertible wrote:

And what is wrong with you looking at the table above? Per shot added.
[gets chainsaw] clearly someone is not reading what I am saying.  all of the weapons have the same damage per minute.  in 1 second both weapons would do the same damage.  AK has more damage per shot, but has a slower RPM.
What? no both get 600 rounds per minute and a 30 round clip, how is the AK slower?
SWAMRaoulDuke
Member
+0|6979
In my opinion one just has to learn how to shoot with the L85A, i really love the medic weapons but i love the l85a a littlebit more. Everyone is right when they say the original weapons are doing more damage per bullit but if its long or medium long range the L85A is by far THE best weapon even beter than the sniper rifles..

Well this is just my opinion so....
ayb
Member
+0|6942|Orlando, FL
ak-101 > ak-47 > m-16a2 > pistol > grenades > knife > running away > l85a1

if i run out of ammo and have to scrounge for a new pack and all i can find is a L85 medic pack, i go back to my old pack and just use the pistol. the L85 is a worthless piece of shit.
DrDestruction
Utilityman
+1|6965
Medic bag > L85A1.

Although, in the weapon's defense, I have found it useful in a FEW situations.  Mainly when I play the medic class to snipe.  However, I prefer to play it as it should - in the front lines directly in the line of fire, healing and reviving teammates, with a strong gun (AK-101/AK-47) for self-defense/maybe a little assault.  I do, however, take the L85 when playing on the American team.

I just don't use it as much as people say I should.  I'm just not a huge fan.
blacksheepcannibal
Member
+24|6939
AK-101 = AK-47. exact same accuracy for the first 3-4 shots (a "burst" to the layman) only difference is that after the 4th or 5th shot, ak-101 is slightly more accurate, and the ak-47 deals very marginally more damage. eh.

Medics are not supposed to be in the muck of things. Medics should be the ones hanging back and letting assault and spec ops charge in. thus, the L85 is ideal for a medic. less deviation means more accurate. and DPM? thats about a useless value. youd have to assume something hits or misses, and have it universal for all guns, no matter how accurate/inaccurate the weapon is.

thus, L85 is slighty more usefull for a medic if they are playing their class properly. sometimes that might not always be the wisest thing to do (sometimes you need a combat medic) so i agree, with in-fighting/urban maps, the ak would be a better choice if you play on hitting alot of close in resistance.
{TL}SHARPSHOOTER
Vacuum Sealed for Freshness
+26|6932|The Island of Carls Jr.
If EA FINALLY got gun detials right, then most people would use the L85A1 because its extremely accurate
and has a scope.
tillaswarlordsoldier
Member
+0|6942
well, imo, people who say that the L85 is useless haven't learned how to use it correctly because it can be a very deadly weapon in a large range of situations.  also, I think that a medic's place isn't necesarily on the front lines, but medics who have the capability to destroy the other team, consistantly, on the front lines should do that because you will not only kill people on the front lines, but they will stay alive long enough to revive people and probably make successful push on a flag.  medics could hang back and pop people from afar with the L85, but when they go to revive someone, at least in my experience, they are killed at least half of the time by whoever killed the first person.  therefore, it is more useful, or at least AS useful to be a medic and stick with people going to the frontlines (and use your ak) as it is to be a medic who stays back with the L85 and runs up to revive people.  in conclusion, learn how to use the L85, then learn when you need to use it.

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