Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|6703|Cambridge, England

-Whiteroom- wrote:

I like that you say that the majority of people, when he was one of how many soldiers over there? It is not a majority thing at all. Even claiming that gives credence to everyone who says that this is representative of the entire military.

Edit: Even if what you are claiming was right, and the vast majority would act the same. Does that make killing sixteen people ok? If so, I defiantly want you and spear on the jury if I ever happen to end up in court for murder.
Look at the holocaust. The vast majority of Germans were not only aware of the reality of what was occuring, they actively helped and contributed. Are German people all that different from anybody else? No, not really.

Given the right set of circumstances good people can do really bad things.

I wonder how many people commit GBH or even murder over road rage?

Im not saying the current case is nothing to worry about or that its normal, more that it doesn't really shock me. If this one guy is written off as a crazy then that will do far less to stop a recurrance than actually assessing why this happened and implementing changes to avoid it happening again.

But sure, write it off as a freak event and be happy that we will likely never be fighting for our lives, repeatedly.
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5230|foggy bottom
hundreds of thousands of soldiers went through more deployments than this dude without going crazy and killing civies
Tu Stultus Es
NeXuS
Shock it till ya know it
+375|6312|Atlanta, Georgia
Charge him for 16 counts of murder. Plain and simple. Laws are laws. Crazy or not that does not excuse him from what he did.
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6652|Disaster Free Zone

Dilbert_X wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

I was responding to the fake outrage/shock that something like this happened.  Kind of like the urination thing.
This shit happens ALL.  THE.  TIME.  Maybe not 16 in cold blood, but there are probably thousands of incidents that never get reported.
Then the military need their asses kicked, execute a few maybe.
A good old fashion decimation?
Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|6703|Cambridge, England

eleven bravo wrote:

hundreds of thousands of soldiers went through more deployments than this dude without going crazy and killing civies
Correct....

Make your own judgements, he wasn't just some low ranking private though, clearly everybody else thought he could be trusted with peoples lives.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6376|North Carolina

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Do these fucking psychos not realize that when they kill civvies, it tempts the terrorists to strike back with full force?
When you're dealing with some people that will kill you over burning books or over converting to a different religion, chances are...   they were just looking for a reason to kill you already.

This whole incident makes for a great media frenzy, but overall, it doesn't really change anything.

At best, this might just speed up our withdrawal.  At worst, we'll be forced to be even more apologetic than before.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

DrunkFace wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

I was responding to the fake outrage/shock that something like this happened.  Kind of like the urination thing.
This shit happens ALL.  THE.  TIME.  Maybe not 16 in cold blood, but there are probably thousands of incidents that never get reported.
Then the military need their asses kicked, execute a few maybe.
A good old fashion decimation?
No, just the guilty.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

Turquoise wrote:

chances are...   they were just looking for a reason to kill you already.
Bullshit, the Afghans were working up to trading with America - world trade being the supposed route to stability.
Afghans didn't start killing Americans until the US attacked Afghanistan.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6551|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Dilbert_X wrote:

Oh right, so its all Obama's fault - wow.
what in the cocksucking fuck are you on about?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

Reciprocity wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Oh right, so its all Obama's fault - wow.
what in the cocksucking fuck are you on about?

Reciprocity wrote:

I'm really not sure what the hell obama's trying to accomplish by keeping us there for two more years.
Finish the job, achieve something, anything, or the whole thing will have been not simply a waste of time but utterly counterproductive is my guess.
"We're in the end game," affirmed Major Bennett", "but I guarantee you that if we pull out now, we will be back here in 20 years, starting all over from scratch."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17414472

As to the OP, three deployments in eleven years and the guy isn't happy, what did he expect when he signed up exactly?
Why didn't he leave?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2012-03-18 00:48:12)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6551|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Dilbert_X wrote:

Finish the job, achieve something, anything, or the whole thing will have been not simply a waste of time but utterly counterproductive is my guess.
there is nothing lasting we can achieve there, nothing we can finish.  shall we occupy pakistan?  kill more enemies which, of course, only makes more enemies?  arm and train an afghan force that's likely to use those arms against us, sooner or later?  It was and is a waste.  it's been like that for 11 years.  but I never said anything was all Obama's fault.  he inherited a shit sandwich and is trying to put off those last few bites.  I say choke 'em down now and get it over with.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6376|North Carolina

Dilbert_X wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

chances are...   they were just looking for a reason to kill you already.
Bullshit, the Afghans were working up to trading with America - world trade being the supposed route to stability.
Afghans didn't start killing Americans until the US attacked Afghanistan.
And once we invaded them, there was no point to trying the "hearts and minds" approach.

Total war is the only way to succeed.  You can't win via occupation in a place like Afghanistan, unless you're willing to be really brutal.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6376|North Carolina

Dilbert_X wrote:

Finish the job, achieve something, anything, or the whole thing will have been not simply a waste of time but utterly counterproductive is my guess.
"Finishing the job" wouldn't be something we can stomach right now.
Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|6703|Cambridge, England
The reality is that Afgahn needs to be finished asap so that we can invade another country namely Iran / Syria.

Personally I dont think it would happen but I suspect that with our current commitments it is far to obvious to everybody that force is currently an empty threat, once we again have the capability perhaps we can effect more of a change...

Just thinking aloud..
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5556

Why should we do anything to Syria?
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6551|the dank(super) side of Oregon
fuck invading anything.  especially syria and iran.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6123|what

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

Just thinking aloud..
I somehow doubt that.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
HITNRUNXX
Member
+220|6680|Oklahoma City

Dilbert_X wrote:

As to the OP, three deployments in eleven years and the guy isn't happy, what did he expect when he signed up exactly?
Why didn't he leave?
Can't karma you again today dude.

Probably the best point made so far, IMO.

Everyone is now saying the military should stop deploying people after 1-3 [depending on who you talk to] times... But none of those people are willing to say the military should kick them out... So we are going to keep them all on the payroll, but just give them all desk jobs I guess. 11 years is what? 2 reups? So he served 3 times, AND he got deployed 3 times? Sounds pretty expected, tbh.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

Reciprocity wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Finish the job, achieve something, anything, or the whole thing will have been not simply a waste of time but utterly counterproductive is my guess.
there is nothing lasting we can achieve there, nothing we can finish.  shall we occupy pakistan?  kill more enemies which, of course, only makes more enemies?  arm and train an afghan force that's likely to use those arms against us, sooner or later?  It was and is a waste.  it's been like that for 11 years.  but I never said anything was all Obama's fault.  he inherited a shit sandwich and is trying to put off those last few bites.  I say choke 'em down now and get it over with.
It could have been very different, Afghanistan could have been fixed, Iran brought into the civilised fold.

Instead the objectives were so dumb, the planning so poor, the implementation so shit, and a significant minority of the troops so poorly disciplined that the whole exercise has been utterly counterproductive.

The Afghans now hate us, the Pakistanis now hate us and the Iranians are so scared they'll be the next victims of Team Dumbfuck they're prepared to take the risk of developing nuclear weapons in an all-or-nothing gamble.

Back to the OP:

An anonymous US official confirmed to the New York Times that the soldier had been drinking alcohol the evening before the attack.

"When it all comes out, it will be a combination of stress, alcohol and domestic issues - he just snapped," the US military official said.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17403836

Ah OK, I can see the end-game already. Decorated war-hero just wanted a hug all along. Lets forget about the kids with their heads blown apart seeing as they're brown and try to help the poor fellow get his life back together. We should give him an honourable discharge ASAP so he can retain his well-deserved pension and go get those book and movie deals.
(In the meantime the Fort Hood shooter and that Wikileaks fag can rot in solitary until we kill them, never mind the double standards)

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2012-03-19 01:49:40)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6645|Canberra, AUS
The Iranians may be scared. They're also laughing. The last decade has been a godsend to them geopolitically.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Well bugger me, Staff Sargeant Tough-Guy stabbed many of those children to death.

Still, he was in negative equity so seems fair.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|6629|BC, Canada
Don't judge him dilbert. I'm sure everyone here would murder children in the same situation. Plus hes a solider and stuff, so no harm no foul.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
To be fair last time I quit a job I thought to myself "Shall I write a brief letter of resignation, work out my notice period and start looking for a new career, or should I buy one of those cool mail-order ninja swords and chop up a school party in the museum?"

Decisions are personal things, not everyone is Solomon I guess.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6376|North Carolina

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

The reality is that Afgahn needs to be finished asap so that we can invade another country namely Iran / Syria.

Personally I dont think it would happen but I suspect that with our current commitments it is far to obvious to everybody that force is currently an empty threat, once we again have the capability perhaps we can effect more of a change...

Just thinking aloud..
We really shouldn't invade either of them.

Syria is actually more of a possibility, but with Iran, it's just saber rattling.  The only country that actually would invade Iran would be Israel, but thankfully, we have kept them from doing so (so far).

Syria is a more likely candidate for the "Libya" approach.  Hopefully, we won't be stupid enough to do it.

Last edited by Turquoise (2012-03-19 08:35:27)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6376|North Carolina

Dilbert_X wrote:

It could have been very different, Afghanistan could have been fixed, Iran brought into the civilised fold.

Instead the objectives were so dumb, the planning so poor, the implementation so shit, and a significant minority of the troops so poorly disciplined that the whole exercise has been utterly counterproductive.

The Afghans now hate us, the Pakistanis now hate us and the Iranians are so scared they'll be the next victims of Team Dumbfuck they're prepared to take the risk of developing nuclear weapons in an all-or-nothing gamble.
Nation-building doesn't fix anything in a place like Afghanistan.  Nukes would have fixed them though.

As for Iran...  who cares?  If they get nukes, big deal.  They only want them for defensive purposes.

The Pakistanis already hated us before we invaded Afghanistan, and they've harbored extremists for decades now.  It's only recently that they've turned more of their insanity towards us instead of towards the Indians.

The mistake we made with Pakistan is assuming our investment in their country would ever amount to anything.  They're still a shitty country with fanatics that we'll inevitably have to deal with for a long time.

Instead of supporting Pakistan all these years, we should've supported India.  They're actually going somewhere despite their corruption and poverty.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Ah OK, I can see the end-game already. Decorated war-hero just wanted a hug all along. Lets forget about the kids with their heads blown apart seeing as they're brown and try to help the poor fellow get his life back together. We should give him an honourable discharge ASAP so he can retain his well-deserved pension and go get those book and movie deals.
(In the meantime the Fort Hood shooter and that Wikileaks fag can rot in solitary until we kill them, never mind the double standards)
What makes you think we'll celebrate a guy that killed a bunch of kids?

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