oh apple...
I see your point burnzz, but for what I use my iPad for, I don't need any of those features. I primarily use it for iPlayer, itv player, tv catchup, reading stuff when I don't want to get up off the couch and sit at my PC, and reading in the loo.13urnzz wrote:
can you connect a thumbdrive to an iPad? anything USB?Camm wrote:
Android is licensed to loads of manufacturers, and as such, isn't going to run as sweetly as iOS on the iPad.
with my Xoom unlocked and rooted, i can install any customized kernel and ROM that i want, and there are drivers for just about any USB device imaginable (i can tether my camera to my tablet).
i see your argument as a selling point for Android and a knock against ios/apple. but then again, i am not afraid to feed myself.
i don't need apple to spoon feed me what they think i will use my tablet for.
For that, it's excellent.
for a fatty you're a serious intellectual lightweight.
So what youre saying is that it costs more to build this iPad yet the mark-ups are less than the previous generations?pirana6 wrote:
oh apple...
for a fatty you're a serious intellectual lightweight.
That chart means absolutely nothing. Who knows how accurate those prices are. Where's the labor cost? Transit? It's a pointless spreadsheetCamm wrote:
So what youre saying is that it costs more to build this iPad yet the mark-ups are less than the previous generations?pirana6 wrote:
oh apple...
take shit with a grain of salt times eh? The thing came out 48 hours ago, clearly these are gonna be rough estimates and purely speculation at that! Nobody has been able to get their hands on one enough to take it apart and see the hardware (and prices). It's just a rough estimate on the markup apple decides it wants to sell. Anybody with the slightest clue about business knows a 50% markup is fucking steep but then again they can charge whatever they want and people will buy it. No we don't know about transit from China, but we have an idea about the labor costs (unless you've been living under a rock for the past month).
You've got to be naive as hell if you think apple doesn't overcharge compared to (most) of the rest of the mainstream tech industry.
You've got to be naive as hell if you think apple doesn't overcharge compared to (most) of the rest of the mainstream tech industry.
50% isn't "fucking steep", what do you think the markup is on most technology? 10%?
where do you have an idea about the labor costs?
where do you have an idea about the labor costs?
How is $50 charging whatever they want? It's not exactly a huge price for a quality keyboard.
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50% is a huge margin in consumer electronics, and for most end-user products, 10% is probably isn't too far off the mark.Dauntless wrote:
50% isn't "fucking steep", what do you think the markup is on most technology? 10%?
where do you have an idea about the labor costs?
when i wanted a 50% mark up, i'd have to buy more baking soda.
50% without the other extraneous costs added in? That sounds about right. You have to remember there are a great deal of other costs that Apple needs to recoup with each sale of an iPad. I would be more interested in what these other operating costs are, but obviously those will likely never see the light of day in any fine amount of detail. Maybe those of you that really care should take a look at their annual fiscal report and come back and tell us.
After all extra costs and overhead are calculated in, maybe, but for the pricing off manufacturing to retailer, 50% is not huge. It's about right for a product like that.mikkel wrote:
50% is a huge margin in consumer electronics, and for most end-user products, 10% is probably isn't too far off the mark.Dauntless wrote:
50% isn't "fucking steep", what do you think the markup is on most technology? 10%?
where do you have an idea about the labor costs?
You've also got to take into account that that is the cost for one iPad, and not a batch. The more purchased, the lower the cost of manufacturing.
Also, can you please stop confusing profit margin with markup. They are not the same things, in fact they are incredibly different.
Markup for iPad = 102.9%
Profit margin = 51%
Both of which are generally accurate for electronics bought in batches.
Markup = ((sale price/cost) - 1) x 100
Profit margin = (sale price/cost) x 100
Markup for iPad = 102.9%
Profit margin = 51%
Both of which are generally accurate for electronics bought in batches.
Markup = ((sale price/cost) - 1) x 100
Profit margin = (sale price/cost) x 100
and you're forgetting rent, supply, employment, legal, patent etc costs when it comes to running a company.mikkel wrote:
50% is a huge margin in consumer electronics, and for most end-user products, 10% is probably isn't too far off the mark.Dauntless wrote:
50% isn't "fucking steep", what do you think the markup is on most technology? 10%?
where do you have an idea about the labor costs?
If you guys want a steep markup on a product, look at those Monster cables. Friend of mine used to work at Best Buy and said Best Buy pays something on the order of 10% of the sale price for those things, meaning a 90% markup! That's a 90% profit on each individual cable for Best Buy.
Large markups on electronics are very common, though. The retailers are often given an MSRP and are not allowed to sell above (or sometimes below) that price. Laptops and Apple products (there are likely more, such as TVs and DVD players, but I was never told about the markups on those) only have about a 10% markup on the purchase price (if even that high). When you buy a laptop or an iPad at Best Buy or most any retailer, only a very small percentage of that money flows to the retailer while the rest goes directly to the manufacturer. Retailers like Best Buy make their money off of you in accessories like with Monster-branded cables I mentioned above. Best Buy pays maybe $10 USD per cable and sells them for $100 easily and that's money that really can make a difference in covering operating costs when you add large amounts of accessories sales together.
A friend of mine got me a Swiss Gear backpack from Best Buy when he worked there (I got all this info from him) and the sale price for customers was something on the order of $90 USD and he only paid approx. $40 USD. Same went for a pair of Klipsch headphones he got for me back in the day: $120 for the headphones at retail price but less than half that for employees. Best Buy employees can purchase items at store cost or near store cost, so when you think that when an employee is still having to pay a small markup and Best Buy employees purchase a lot of crap from the stores because it is so cheap with their discount, then that's still a markup and profits being made.
Why do you think Microsoft was OK to be making losses on the Xbox for as long as they were? The central hardware was expensive and for a long time without profit, but it was the games, accessories and publishing fees that brought in the cash.
Apple's business model is different because stores WANT to have Apple products in there even if they are not making a large (or any) profit on the devices because then customers buy all the accessories. Then you figure that Apple has a business model that is truly unique in that they have their own stores, so they can hock their wares directly to the consumer and bypass the retailer. Sure, Apple has some business practices that are less than reputable and their prices are insanely high, but it's called price differentiation (this is Marketing 101, folks). While you get a higher amount of quality with a number of Apple products, you're also buying into a lifestyle.
The same goes for Red Bull and just about any luxury brand, especially those with large marketing budgets. Sure, you can get something similar or the same for cheaper, but it lacks that "lifestyle" feel. Everything has a purpose in life, folks. Without a successful business model, what's the point? This is exactly why most start-ups falter because they have cool ideas but absolutely NO business model to fall back on. Hell, if it wasn't for the huge adoption of Twitter, they would have closed up shop years ago because they still don't have a fully functioning business model (quite sad, really).
(edited for formatting and added a few tidbits)
Large markups on electronics are very common, though. The retailers are often given an MSRP and are not allowed to sell above (or sometimes below) that price. Laptops and Apple products (there are likely more, such as TVs and DVD players, but I was never told about the markups on those) only have about a 10% markup on the purchase price (if even that high). When you buy a laptop or an iPad at Best Buy or most any retailer, only a very small percentage of that money flows to the retailer while the rest goes directly to the manufacturer. Retailers like Best Buy make their money off of you in accessories like with Monster-branded cables I mentioned above. Best Buy pays maybe $10 USD per cable and sells them for $100 easily and that's money that really can make a difference in covering operating costs when you add large amounts of accessories sales together.
A friend of mine got me a Swiss Gear backpack from Best Buy when he worked there (I got all this info from him) and the sale price for customers was something on the order of $90 USD and he only paid approx. $40 USD. Same went for a pair of Klipsch headphones he got for me back in the day: $120 for the headphones at retail price but less than half that for employees. Best Buy employees can purchase items at store cost or near store cost, so when you think that when an employee is still having to pay a small markup and Best Buy employees purchase a lot of crap from the stores because it is so cheap with their discount, then that's still a markup and profits being made.
Why do you think Microsoft was OK to be making losses on the Xbox for as long as they were? The central hardware was expensive and for a long time without profit, but it was the games, accessories and publishing fees that brought in the cash.
Apple's business model is different because stores WANT to have Apple products in there even if they are not making a large (or any) profit on the devices because then customers buy all the accessories. Then you figure that Apple has a business model that is truly unique in that they have their own stores, so they can hock their wares directly to the consumer and bypass the retailer. Sure, Apple has some business practices that are less than reputable and their prices are insanely high, but it's called price differentiation (this is Marketing 101, folks). While you get a higher amount of quality with a number of Apple products, you're also buying into a lifestyle.
The same goes for Red Bull and just about any luxury brand, especially those with large marketing budgets. Sure, you can get something similar or the same for cheaper, but it lacks that "lifestyle" feel. Everything has a purpose in life, folks. Without a successful business model, what's the point? This is exactly why most start-ups falter because they have cool ideas but absolutely NO business model to fall back on. Hell, if it wasn't for the huge adoption of Twitter, they would have closed up shop years ago because they still don't have a fully functioning business model (quite sad, really).
(edited for formatting and added a few tidbits)
Last edited by CapnNismo (2012-03-10 04:58:39)
I knew 12GB of RAM would be useful some day (playing with Windows Server 2008 in a VM)
Hey look! A new MacThingy is coming out. Lets have another argument about how their stuff is over-priced and not as cool as what basement dwelling nerds put together.
No. I'm not. A profit margin is what you make off a product after manufacturing and business costs have been subtracted.Cybargs wrote:
and you're forgetting rent, supply, employment, legal, patent etc costs when it comes to running a company.mikkel wrote:
50% is a huge margin in consumer electronics, and for most end-user products, 10% is probably isn't too far off the mark.Dauntless wrote:
50% isn't "fucking steep", what do you think the markup is on most technology? 10%?
where do you have an idea about the labor costs?
do you see any other costs in that graph? all of those costs are raw material costs.mikkel wrote:
No. I'm not. A profit margin is what you make off a product after manufacturing and business costs have been subtracted.Cybargs wrote:
and you're forgetting rent, supply, employment, legal, patent etc costs when it comes to running a company.mikkel wrote:
50% is a huge margin in consumer electronics, and for most end-user products, 10% is probably isn't too far off the mark.
He was saying that 50% mark was way off. You guys are arguing the same thing
Silly chart is silly
Silly chart is silly
Actually, we've moved past that and on to a bunch of kids that think they know economics when in fact they don't have a clue.-Whiteroom- wrote:
Hey look! A new MacThingy is coming out. Lets have another argument about how their stuff is over-priced and not as cool as what basement dwelling nerds put together.
Cool stuff, dude! I need to finally really play with my 16GB of RAM in my machine... What VM software are you using?bugz wrote:
I knew 12GB of RAM would be useful some day (playing with Windows Server 2008 in a VM)
VMware Workstation is all I know really in terms of virtualization software (used it all throughout college). I tried Virtual Box but that was only briefly back in high school.CapnNismo wrote:
Cool stuff, dude! I need to finally really play with my 16GB of RAM in my machine... What VM software are you using?bugz wrote:
I knew 12GB of RAM would be useful some day (playing with Windows Server 2008 in a VM)
There is, in fact, an entire row labeled "Other" in the chart, accounting for a sizable chunk of the total.Cybargs wrote:
do you see any other costs in that graph? all of those costs are raw material costs.mikkel wrote:
No. I'm not. A profit margin is what you make off a product after manufacturing and business costs have been subtracted.Cybargs wrote:
and you're forgetting rent, supply, employment, legal, patent etc costs when it comes to running a company.
Thats about normal for electronics manufacturing, doesn't include labour, factory overheads, corporate overheads, marketing, retailer margin etc.pirana6 wrote:
oh apple...
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http://www.evga.com/articles/00668/#FrontPage
wow.
that is fucking nice.
3 way sli @ 16x - 16x - 16x
wow.
that is fucking nice.
3 way sli @ 16x - 16x - 16x
Last edited by Camm (2012-03-12 06:43:18)
for a fatty you're a serious intellectual lightweight.
Too bad Intel still hasn't launched multiplier unlocked Xeons for LGA2011. No use for overkill mobo until that.
3930K | H100i | RIVF | 16GB DDR3 | GTX 480 | AX750 | 800D | 512GB SSD | 3TB HDD | Xonar DX | W8