How much government involvement in the internet is okay?

2012-02-21 15:43:47

#1

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5583

So since it's only a matter of time until the world's governments begin to take a much bigger role in the internet than they do now...where do you draw the line?

I don't DDOS sites, or pirate things so I mostly won't be too troubled. Probably lose porn streaming sites.

So is the status quo best or will a little more government involvement be cool. If so how much?

2012-02-21 16:01:48

#2

FatherTed: xD; +3,936|6497|so randum

none. internet is worldwide, so no government can really try or hope to control it

(imo)

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Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella

2012-02-21 16:08:58

#3

RTHKI: mmmf mmmf mmmf; +1,736|6734|Oxferd Ohire

take down child porn sites n shit. thats it

2012-02-21 16:11:55

#4

jsnipy: ...; +3,276|6520|...

FatherTed wrote:
none. internet is worldwide, so no government can really try or hope to control it

(imo)

this, /thread

2012-02-21 16:13:30

#5

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5256|foggy bottom

abortion is murder

Tu Stultus Es

2012-02-21 16:23:39

#6

13urnzz: Banned; +5,830|6495

murder is abortion

2012-02-21 16:38:54

#7

Winston_Churchill: Bazinga!; +521|6736|Toronto | Canada

designed to be open, should stay open. the only involvement they should have is making it accessible and affordable to all.

2012-02-21 16:41:32

#8

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5256|foggy bottom

governments arent able to control telecommunications and what gets aired on television?

Tu Stultus Es

2012-02-21 16:43:24

#9

FatherTed: xD; +3,936|6497|so randum

in their own nation, yes. tv and telecoms are a whole seperate basket to the internet though. take for example russia, lots of the pirating sites are hosting there now, because russia won't do shit about it, and no-one else (aside from blocking on their own end, which is easily worked around) can do a thing

govs can dip into the internet for security or whatever, but in the overall picture they can't police it

Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella

2012-02-21 17:11:12

#10

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6150|what

RTHKI wrote:
take down child porn sites n shit. thats it

2012-02-21 18:34:40

#11

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6408|'Murka

Winston_Churchill wrote:
the only involvement they should have is making it accessible and affordable to all.

Nah. That's the various providers' role.

Government should only worry about illegal activity on the internet, just like they do with other telecommunications media.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2012-02-21 18:41:31

#12

13urnzz: Banned; +5,830|6495

all of it.

2012-02-21 21:54:20

#13

Shahter: Zee Ruskie; +295|6773|Moscow, Russia

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if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

2012-02-21 22:29:17

#14

Little BaBy JESUS: m8; +394|6146|'straya

AussieReaper wrote:
RTHKI wrote:
take down child porn sites n shit. thats it

FEOS wrote:
Government should only worry about illegal activity on the internet, just like they do with other telecommunications media.

2012-02-22 00:45:47

#15

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6103|eXtreme to the maX

Tech nerds can always find a workaround much faster than govts can block them off.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2012-02-22 00:49:39

#16

Winston_Churchill: Bazinga!; +521|6736|Toronto | Canada

FEOS wrote:
Winston_Churchill wrote:
the only involvement they should have is making it accessible and affordable to all.
Nah. That's the various providers' role.

Government should only worry about illegal activity on the internet, just like they do with other telecommunications media.

nah they block any significant foreign investment and allow ridiculous oligarchies here, which shouldnt happen at all.

also, to illegal activity they should shut down the actual people and remove the content, blocking the website itself does nothing in the long run

2012-02-22 00:53:01

#17

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|6598|132 and Bush

Not to mention with a narrow market (as is the case with most utilities), it's not unthinkable that isp competitors would work in cahoots, price fixing etc..

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2012-02-22 00:59:43

#18

Winston_Churchill: Bazinga!; +521|6736|Toronto | Canada

Kmar wrote:
Not to mention with a narrow market (as is the case with most utilities), it's not unthinkable that isp competitors would work in cahoots, price fixing etc..

well yeah, theres literally no difference between the two providers here

2012-02-22 07:54:45

#19

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6402|North Carolina

Winston_Churchill wrote:
designed to be open, should stay open. the only involvement they should have is making it accessible and affordable to all.

Pretty much. The best ISPs in America are public. In my state, for example, the best 2 ISPs are run by the city governments of Salisbury and Wilson.

Unfortunately, private ISPs have lobbied successfully in about 30 states to block the creation of all future public ISPs.

So basically, the telecom market in America is horribly corrupt. It's not as bad as the monopolies/oligopolies in Canada and Australia, but it's moving in that direction.

We've thankfully been spared bandwidth caps in most areas, although Comcast has put them into place in a few unlucky metro areas. Time Warner tried to pull that shit down here, but the people got so pissed about it that they backed away. They'll probably try it again in the near future.

Last edited by Turquoise (2012-02-22 07:55:41)

2012-02-22 09:32:02

#20

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6730|St. Andrews / Oslo

FatherTed wrote:
none. internet is worldwide, so no government can really try or hope to control it

(imo)

No state government, anyway, but you can still regulate/control something without a traditional central government (e.g. The Antarctic Treaty, The Outer Space Treaty, attempts to regulate how we treat the environment..)

Essentially we have international laws regulating what can and cannot be done on Antarctica, in Outer Space, to the Ozone layer - who's to say we can't have similar laws regulating what we can and cannot do on the Internet?

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2012-02-22 11:38:45

#21

Cheeky_Ninja06: Member; +52|6730|Cambridge, England

Disagree tbh.

I would also say this is very naive given the recent proposed legislation:

I don't DDOS sites, or pirate things so I mostly won't be too troubled.

Google now have to write their software to filter content by country or risk running a blocking war with different countries.

Countries are quick to blame the internet for all that is wrong in the world, the internet caused the arab spring, blackberry messenger caused the London riots. The only real question is are governments in a strong enough position of control to enforce their desires...?

Last edited by Cheeky_Ninja06 (2012-02-22 11:39:06)

2012-02-22 15:21:45

#22

HITNRUNXX: Member; +220|6707|Oklahoma City

I think the answer to "How much government involvement in the internet is okay?" is "Depends on the government."

It also needs to be clarified at "What kind of involvement are you talking about?"

I don't think the U.S. should have much involvement at all in regulation/censoring/charging/taxing/etc... However, I had a [small] part in developing the largest wireless mesh in the world... [Since then, it has fallen to the largest government owned wireless mesh in the United States]. And we were looking into opening it up to the public as a free service. It would have provided a slower, basic link for citizens to the internet... If they wanted better/faster speeds, then they could turn to an ISP. In the end, we decided we would not be able to maintain it... And without a tax or something to support it, it required too much money to be put up from a partner (such as Earthlink) in the deal, and not enough from us... THIS kind of government involvement is ok, imo.

Now, when it comes to other countries, I don't think any of us can really say what they should and should not do. I don't think it is up to us to dictate what China is allowed to censor, for example. Or, even really have an opinion on it. We are not a Utopia that gets to help other countries become a Utopia like us... Once we come up with the perfect government that makes everyone happy, then we can suggest that to other countries and even offer to help them move to that model. Otherwise, it they aren't some sort of threat to us, let them do their own thing. (Genocides, etc not included).

2012-02-22 19:02:02

#23

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6408|'Murka

Winston_Churchill wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Winston_Churchill wrote:
the only involvement they should have is making it accessible and affordable to all.
Nah. That's the various providers' role.

Government should only worry about illegal activity on the internet, just like they do with other telecommunications media.
nah they block any significant foreign investment and allow ridiculous oligarchies here, which shouldnt happen at all.

Because being successful at business and making money providing a good or service that the people demand is a bad thing, right?

also, to illegal activity they should shut down the actual people and remove the content, blocking the website itself does nothing in the long run

I agree with your second point. But they have to be involved in the internet (see thread title) a decent amount to be able to do that.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2012-02-22 20:12:18

#24

Winston_Churchill: Bazinga!; +521|6736|Toronto | Canada

FEOS wrote:
Winston_Churchill wrote:
FEOS wrote:

Nah. That's the various providers' role.

Government should only worry about illegal activity on the internet, just like they do with other telecommunications media.
nah they block any significant foreign investment and allow ridiculous oligarchies here, which shouldnt happen at all.
Because being successful at business and making money providing a good or service that the people demand is a bad thing, right?

no, thats entirely irrelevant. you dont see a problem with 2 companies controlling the internet in canada and basically price fixing, while government laws prevent anyone else from coming in and making fair competition? canada is consistently rated among the worst in the first world countries for internet and cell providers

2012-02-22 20:14:53

#25

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6408|'Murka

Winston_Churchill wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Winston_Churchill wrote:

nah they block any significant foreign investment and allow ridiculous oligarchies here, which shouldnt happen at all.
Because being successful at business and making money providing a good or service that the people demand is a bad thing, right?
no, thats entirely irrelevant. you dont see a problem with 2 companies controlling the internet in canada and basically price fixing, while government laws prevent anyone else from coming in and making fair competition? canada is consistently rated among the worst in the first world countries for internet and cell providers

Different story. That's what anti-trust laws are for...and they apply across the business spectrum, not just telecomms.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

BF2S Forums How much government involvement in the internet is okay?

FatherTed wrote:

RTHKI wrote:

Winston_Churchill wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

RTHKI wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Winston_Churchill wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Winston_Churchill wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Winston_Churchill wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Winston_Churchill wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Winston_Churchill wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Winston_Churchill wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Winston_Churchill wrote:

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