They need it to vote.
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- Woman trys to run for office despite not speaking English proficiently
I figured common sense would be the guideline.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
The law as posted by westpheonix doesn't mention anything about proficiency. Without a specific guideline of what constitutes the ability to speak the English language I don't really see how they can rule her out of the race.
We might as well make English the official language to settle these kinds of issues once and for all.HITNRUNXX wrote:
Yup, I missed it being "law" and only read all the things saying they "worried about her ability to do her job" so I retract my statement.Turquoise wrote:
That's a fair point, but at the same time, if Arizona state law requires English proficiency to run, then she's clearly in violation of the law.HITNRUNXX wrote:
Since English is not the nation's official language, then why should she have learned it in high school? She probably went to a local, Hispanic high school, and they probably taught in Spanish. And why not? You can't argue she should have to learn English, since English is not our official language.
Do I think English SHOULD be our official language? Yes. It would save a ton of money, confusion, and future issues... But, it isn't...
So from a legal standpoint, this sounds like discrimination against her, and it shouldn't matter what language she speaks. Until it is official, it doesn't matter.
Without the law that phoenix posted in place, this could be construed as a matter of discrimination, but since AZ specifically requires it for running, then it becomes a states' rights issue.
Every state has the legal leeway to require English proficiency in order to run for office, since this requirement doesn't specifically refer to a race, religion, gender, ethnicity, mental or physical handicap, or sexual orientation.
Language proficiency doesn't apply to any particular federally protected class.
I could see this forcing the issue though... When this ends up heading to the Supreme Court, either English will be declared an official language, or added to the things you can't discriminate for... Maybe as a sub clause of ethnicity or something...
Heh... as if that stopped people from exploiting our system before...Cybargs wrote:
But do they hold citizenship xDJaekus wrote:
If the town is 98% Hispanic and she wants to run it seems only fair. Up to the people to decide who they want to represent them.
Amnesty will probably be next on the agenda.
Speak English or go to a country that speaks your language. I have no desire to learn spanish so I stay the fuck out of Mexico. If people don't want to speak English then stay out of English speaking countries! Problem solved!
She obviously made/is making an attempt to learn the language. Hence the debate over her proficiency. Thanks for your input though.cdailey2142 wrote:
Speak English or go to a country that speaks your language. I have no desire to learn spanish so I stay the fuck out of Mexico. If people don't want to speak English then stay out of English speaking countries! Problem solved!
According to Reuters she is a U.S. citizen by birth but was raised in Mexico.
While most of the people in her district may be Spanish speaking that doesn't change the fact that the laws, bills and other official documents are in English. She needs to communicate with other officials, read, write and understand English to properly do the job. That's the point of the law as I see it.
I agree, and she's demonstrated the ability to read, write and speak English. It's her proficiency that is the question. Even then, the law you linked to doesn't mention proficiency or any standard assessment.
It only takes 5 minutes to understand that laws, bills and regulations are written in a way that makes it tough for the average joe to make sense of them, so I don't think that is a very strong argument.
It only takes 5 minutes to understand that laws, bills and regulations are written in a way that makes it tough for the average joe to make sense of them, so I don't think that is a very strong argument.
In practical terms, a lot of border areas are part of Mexico anyway. I guess the writing is on the wall with cases like this (no pun intended).
Last edited by Turquoise (2012-02-02 11:54:19)
TOEFL over 100, easy.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
I agree, and she's demonstrated the ability to read, write and speak English. It's her proficiency that is the question. Even then, the law you linked to doesn't mention proficiency or any standard assessment.
It only takes 5 minutes to understand that laws, bills and regulations are written in a way that makes it tough for the average joe to make sense of them, so I don't think that is a very strong argument.
I'm just saying are people in her district eligible to vote or not.
I haven't paid much attention to this really. I've seen her speak in one clip and it seemed acceptable, but I haven't seen her read or write. Has proof that she can read and write English been shown to the public?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
I agree, and she's demonstrated the ability to read, write and speak English. It's her proficiency that is the question. Even then, the law you linked to doesn't mention proficiency or any standard assessment.
It only takes 5 minutes to understand that laws, bills and regulations are written in a way that makes it tough for the average joe to make sense of them, so I don't think that is a very strong argument.
I'm trying to understand what part of my post you're responding to but I just can't figure it out. Maybe you quoted the wrong post?Cybargs wrote:
TOEFL over 100, easy.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
I agree, and she's demonstrated the ability to read, write and speak English. It's her proficiency that is the question. Even then, the law you linked to doesn't mention proficiency or any standard assessment.
It only takes 5 minutes to understand that laws, bills and regulations are written in a way that makes it tough for the average joe to make sense of them, so I don't think that is a very strong argument.
I'm just saying are people in her district eligible to vote or not.
sry first part meaning TOEFL over 100 to test her proficiency.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
I'm trying to understand what part of my post you're responding to but I just can't figure it out. Maybe you quoted the wrong post?Cybargs wrote:
TOEFL over 100, easy.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
I agree, and she's demonstrated the ability to read, write and speak English. It's her proficiency that is the question. Even then, the law you linked to doesn't mention proficiency or any standard assessment.
It only takes 5 minutes to understand that laws, bills and regulations are written in a way that makes it tough for the average joe to make sense of them, so I don't think that is a very strong argument.
I'm just saying are people in her district eligible to vote or not.
second part was my post about are people in her district eligible to vote due to their citizenship, not to question her citizenship status.
The law west-Phoenix posted doesn't say anything about proficiency. I think that's the third time I've mentioned that in this thread, in addition to it being mentioned in the article.
I dont know about the voting elegibility of the constituents, but I'm not sure of the relevance of that question either (in regards to her political aspirations).
I dont know about the voting elegibility of the constituents, but I'm not sure of the relevance of that question either (in regards to her political aspirations).
Even if proficiency isn't part of the law, it seems really stupid to not have that as a requirement for entering office.
As was mentioned earlier, she'll have to communicate with a lot of English speakers in government, so her level of proficiency is pretty important.
As was mentioned earlier, she'll have to communicate with a lot of English speakers in government, so her level of proficiency is pretty important.
Yep, pretty stupid. Practically speaking, she needs to be proficient. Legally speaking, it doesn't specifically mention proficiency.
FWIW, one needs a decent grasp of English in order to become a naturalized US citizen.
She, unlike you, was born here.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
FWIW, one needs a decent grasp of English in order to become a naturalized US citizen.
It would be interesting to find out if her parents were citizens before her birth or not.Macbeth wrote:
She, unlike you, was born here.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
FWIW, one needs a decent grasp of English in order to become a naturalized US citizen.
no shit, I'm just saying that it's a bit funny that to run for office one needs to be a citizen yet a naturalized citizen probably knows more English than she doesMacbeth wrote:
She, unlike you, was born here.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
FWIW, one needs a decent grasp of English in order to become a naturalized US citizen.
Last edited by Hurricane2k9 (2012-02-02 15:46:36)
She does speak our language. Here in America, the official language is "Whatever you want to speak."cdailey2142 wrote:
Speak English or go to a country that speaks your language. I have no desire to learn spanish so I stay the fuck out of Mexico. If people don't want to speak English then stay out of English speaking countries! Problem solved!
Once they FINALLY declare English the official language, that will be different... But until then, you really can't discriminate against people because of their language, and you need to make concessions to communicate with your fellow melting pot AMERICAN, no matter what language they speak. Oh, and your government also needs to spend your tax money to help make those concessions.
If I were in the audience, I'd be really pissed if she started speaking spanish to the audience during an open council meeting.
Is there a law about it in Arizona? If not, let her run. If the voters think it's important, they won't elect her.
That's why he said naturalized. I know lots of US citizens who can't speak English at all lel.Macbeth wrote:
She, unlike you, was born here.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
FWIW, one needs a decent grasp of English in order to become a naturalized US citizen.
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