HITNRUNXX
Member
+220|6701|Oklahoma City

Dilbert_X wrote:

Police officers don't generally have the right to use even mild force in everyday situations, only when life is in danger.
I disagree with the "life in danger" part... But this is closer to the truth than the incident in the OP...

If my LIFE in IN DANGER from a bad guy, the cops better be shooting him, not pepper spraying, clubbing, or tazing him.

If a bad guy is resisting arrest and you have the option of beating him into submission or pepper spray/tazers... Then I would say pepper spray and tazers. Don't get into a boxing match with someone who refuses to allow you to arrest him, but you can't just walk away from him and say "Ok, guess you are free to go since you won't put your hands behind your back."

Again though, strapped to a chair naked is past any logical reason to continue using force of any kind...
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6687|NJ
Ehh I'm still pissed about the cop shooting two blocks from my house. They killed an 19 year old kid who turned himself in for a Domistic Dispute warrant. I was walking my dog up in the park, they filled him up with 5 shots, and it doesn't make any sense. He turned himself in at 1:30 and was in the police department for 2 hours then took off for some reason?

Who knows why but I'm more wary of the police then I am of the criminals now a days. I get mugged I loss a couple of dollars(is mugging even a crime anymore?) I get pulled over I could loss up to thousands of dollars and possible my life.
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6687|NJ

HITNRUNXX wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Police officers don't generally have the right to use even mild force in everyday situations, only when life is in danger.
I disagree with the "life in danger" part... But this is closer to the truth than the incident in the OP...

If my LIFE in IN DANGER from a bad guy, the cops better be shooting him, not pepper spraying, clubbing, or tazing him.

If a bad guy is resisting arrest and you have the option of beating him into submission or pepper spray/tazers... Then I would say pepper spray and tazers. Don't get into a boxing match with someone who refuses to allow you to arrest him, but you can't just walk away from him and say "Ok, guess you are free to go since you won't put your hands behind your back."

Again though, strapped to a chair naked is past any logical reason to continue using force of any kind...
The chance of your life being in danger with a cop is way higher then your life being in danger with a bad guy. Also the main problem with this is allowing the police to arrest everyone, for the most part we're so fucked in that way that more people are being arrested for shit that wasn't even a ticketed offense 20 years ago.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6402|'Murka

Such as?

Not that any of this would justify the unjustifiable treatment that man received, mind you.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6706|US
@ cpt.fass1

Via WISQARS 2008 data for the US:
"Legal Interventions" resulting in death: 381
Homicides: 17,826
(This assumes that most LEO shootings were considered justified, and most homicides weren't by LEOs.  Both reasonable assumptions IMO)

I'm going to say your perception is a bit biased.  You are MUCH more likely to be murdered by a civilian than a cop.

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2011-12-28 01:28:31)

FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6402|'Murka

Stupid facts.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
HITNRUNXX
Member
+220|6701|Oklahoma City

cpt.fass1 wrote:

The chance of your life being in danger with a cop is way higher then your life being in danger with a bad guy.
This is HILARIOUS.

Forget Raimius and his facts... I know I had escalated confrontations with cops at least zero times in my life, and with civilians at least a couple dozen. I still give myself a 30% chance of being killed by my crazy ass neighbor.

I am thinking cops are WAY more dangerous though... They are just waiting for the right time to pounce, and slaughter us all. Down with police! Down with law! Down with personal rights! Down with government! Down with civilization!
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,736|6728|Oxferd Ohire
i think it depends on if youre white or not
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6097|eXtreme to the maX
If the Police are allowed to use force on citizens in certain situations there need to be checks and balances to ensure they are following the rules.
Generally speaking they aren't in place or aren't used properly, on the average the Police do whatever they like safe in the knowledge its highly unlikely they will face any sanction, and if they're unlucky it won't be much worse than a slap on the wrist.
This is what attracts a proportion of steroid pumped meatheads to a career in the Police in the first place.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6763|PNW

In other cop-related news, this guy was worried that a fake cop was being pulled over. Instead, he gets trounced by the real thing. He'd probably have been better off getting his car stolen.

Video: Man stopped by Seattle cops so worried he calls 911
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/komo/art … 428616.php

A local man called the cops on Seattle officers when he felt a traffic stop was spinning out of control - and the entire incident was captured on a police video that shows the man being yanked from his car and thrown to the ground.

Now the man's lawyer wants Seattle Police Chief John Diaz to step down because, he says, the problems just keep piling up.

The video shows Seattle police pulling a car over for speeding, then one officer walking up to the driver who was pulled over.

Although the dashboard camera captured the incident, the officer did not wear his microphone - a violation of department policy.

Once stopped, the driver, Amanuel Gebreselassie, says the talk went bad from the beginning.

"He's using profanity. He's not acting professional. He's just not acting like an officer," says Gebreselassie.

In their report, police said the driver was "extremely verbally aggressive." But Gebreselassie denies it - and says the stop seemed so out of line, he called 911.

An audiotape of the 911 call recorded the conversation between Gebreselassie and the 911 dispatcher.

"911. What are you reporting?" the dispatcher says.

"Uhh, an illegal stop by an officer - you know, I just want to make sure he's a real officer. ... There's an officer here, but he's talking crazy to me, and I'm not really dealing with this guy."

The conversation was cut short when a group of officers returned to the car.

"Get out of the car," one officer can be heard saying on the 911 tape.

"For what?"

"Get out of the car, man."

Police say Gebresellassie resisted, so they yanked him to the ground.

In the video, one officer appears to deliver a sharp kick - but it's unclear where it lands.

Gebreselassie's attorney, James Egan, says, "I'm not sure what lessons are ever learned when the police department can't police its own."

Two of the officers were already under investigation for another incident when this stop was committed. Egan is representing the drivers in both instances.

"I'm asking for the chief's resignation here because I think he's either incapable or unwilling of identifying dirty laundry and dealing with it properly - so it doesn't happen again," says Egan.

After the arrest police found marijuana in the trunk of the car - but the case was dropped because the search was illegal.

An internal affairs investigation later reprimanded three of the officers for the illegal search and profanity - but determined their use of force was appropriate.

"I felt like he was trying to provoke me, basically," says Gebreselassie.
Oh, thank god...the real police are here. OH SHIT, THAT WAS THE POLICE! I also like how they just happened to "find" marijuana in the car on a legal search. No way it could have been planted, right?

Elsewhere in America, deaths in the force are on the rise.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6402|'Murka

It's his own fault for having such a fucked up name. He's probably on a terrorist watch list, anyway.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|6650|BC, Canada

RAIMIUS wrote:

@ cpt.fass1

Via WISQARS 2008 data for the US:
"Legal Interventions" resulting in death: 381
Homicides: 17,826
(This assumes that most LEO shootings were considered justified, and most homicides weren't by LEOs.  Both reasonable assumptions IMO)

I'm going to say your perception is a bit biased.  You are MUCH more likely to be murdered by a civilian than a cop.
I think he was talking on a per capita thing, It's kinda obvious that he wasn't saying that the cops are guilty of more homicides in the US than the entirety of the population...
Do I agree with him, I dunno. I think the police need to be held more accountable when things like this happen, they are need to be held to a higher standard, instead of a much, much lower one. Enforcing the law does not give them the right to break it, and when they do, is not a get out of jail free card.

A quick google gave me the a number of law enforcement officers in 2006 at 683,396 (couldnt find 2008 numbers) at least not quick enough that I cared to. I also used the 300 mill population mark fro 2006 against those numbers from 2008. So this is a pretty open reference here, feel free to find the actuals and correct me.
300,000,000 / 17,826=16829
683,396 / 381=1793

So the odds of a citizen killing someone in a homicide are ~ 1 in 16829
and the odd of a cop killing someone are ~ 1 in 1793

Totally rough numbers put together, but there is a large discrepancy there. Feel free to correct if you care to and have better numbers, I would be interested in seeing a more accurate picture of it myself, just not interested enough to find it, gonna play BF3 instead.
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|6650|BC, Canada

FEOS wrote:

It's his own fault for having such a fucked up name. He's probably on a terrorist watch list, anyway.
Yeah! if I tried to pronounce that name it would send me into a rage as well and I would just shit kick him instead.
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,736|6728|Oxferd Ohire
babies are such likely killers. and old people.
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|6650|BC, Canada
very rough numbers as i said, if you wanted to fin the population between a certain age group and do the math, you are more than welcome to it, also people I would like stats on pineapple pizza eaters killing you.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6144|what

Even when police are found to have been acting illegally, all it results in is a 2 week paid vacation suspension.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6687|NJ
Thanks for the stats,  I've been busy lately and haven't had a chance to respond. Also in 2010 there were only 14,000 homicides in the US and I think the police Homicides either went up or stayed the same. Also the 380 is from shootings and not only police related deaths. Way to go facts.
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6706|US
Yes, legal intervention covers all legal uses of force resulting in a death, civilian and LEO.  I didn't have numbers for LEO only, so I went with the group that included all lawful instances.

Yeah, rough numbers, but you get the point.
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5170|Sydney
Third world response in a first world country. The shame.

Next they'll be burning witches.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6396|North Carolina

Jaekus wrote:

Third world response in a first world country. The shame.

Next they'll be burning witches.
We actually tend to favor more "water-based methods."
HITNRUNXX
Member
+220|6701|Oklahoma City

Turquoise wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Third world response in a first world country. The shame.

Next they'll be burning witches.
We actually tend to favor more "water-based methods."
No, That is England...  http://news.yahoo.com/relatives-accused … -news.html
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6140|'straya
Damn those Congolese-born Frenchman committing atrocities while they are on holidays in Britain!
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6396|North Carolina

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

Damn those Congolese-born Frenchman committing atrocities while they are on holidays in Britain!
Unfortunately, what happens in the Congo doesn't stay in the Congo.

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