BF2S Forums Some England riot sentences 'too severe'

Jay wrote:

lowing wrote:

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

Jay said they were young people who wanted to take a shortcut to get rich. You said they were too young to be considering it. 20+ does not count as naive children.

By your previous posts there was a clear inferrence that everbody in the rioting was too young to have a job or even have finished their education. Go read your posts and ask if that still applies at mid twenties.

No, clearly my post was meant that at the ages of those rioting, they were no where near the point of making any real money, just like the rest of us at those ages, yes even 20 fuckin 4.

Two quotes for ya lowing...

Benjamin Franklin wrote:

“He that can have Patience, can have what he will”

Saint Augustine wrote:

“Patience is the companion of wisdom.”

You're expecting patience and wisdom from people too young to even understand the meaning of the words. Are you so old that you've forgotten what it is like to be young and foolish?

Jay wrote:

It is the fault of the police, not the kids involved. The natural state of all things, societies chief among them, is entropy. Chaos. Any society will degenerate if the rule of law is effectively challenged, as it was in England. The police created opportunity via ineptitude. If they'd cracked down hard in the first day, it would not have created the perceived consequence free environment.

Jay wrote:

lowing wrote:

Jay wrote:

It is the fault of the police, not the kids involved. The natural state of all things, societies chief among them, is entropy. Chaos. Any society will degenerate if the rule of law is effectively challenged, as it was in England. The police created opportunity via ineptitude. If they'd cracked down hard in the first day, it would not have created the perceived consequence free environment.

and where does personal responsibility fit in here Jay? These TEENAGERS didn't even know why they were rioting, they were just following the crowd and enjoying themselves, not pissed off. Watch the video, those girls were laughing and giggling over it all, and like you blaming everyone except those committing the crimes.

Personal responsibility? How does that come into play here? Personal responsibility is the duty taken on to provide for you and yours. I'd say the rioters lived up to that expectation astoundingly well. Oh, but you mean it in a way in that they are guilty. Well, yes, of course they are guilty for breaking the peace. They are guilty of rioting and looting. But they lived up to your golden rule of personal responsibility: I'll get me and mines and fuck all y'all. Isn't that the gist of what you pronounce in every thread? Fuck everyone else, I got mine, I'm not paying for your social programs or your health care. My money is mine, I earned it, I'm keeping it. Well, they were just living up to your example.

Last edited by lowing (2011-08-19 12:22:19)

Jay wrote:

I'm quite sane lowing. I just understand the philosophies I put forth here far better than you do. What you wanted to say was 'social responsibility'. You know, stuff like Duty, Honor, Country. Do Unto Others, etc. That stuff is nice to talk about, but it's worthless if there is nothing to back it up. It's like creating a religion that says that we should all live in peace, and no one should steal from each other, or covet our neighbors wife. Then you toss in a bit for fear to back it up. You create a hell. That stuff works, right up until the point that the thief isn't hit by a lightning bolt after stealing a loaf of bread. What then? Back to square one.

As I said, the natural state of everything is chaos. Societies as a whole are an unnatural construct that we've built. They take a lot of work to maintain. Some are built on familial bonds, some are built on nationalistic ones, and others, well, whatever, the point is made. Each one of those constructs has boundaries which people are not permitted to cross... or else. Kill a member of the tribe? Beheaded, or cast out into the wild. Steal from a Burberry store? Expect to go to jail. The British and their police force failed in the primary mission of all governments, to protect the society it has taken power over. This takes many forms, but it is the only true responsibility of any government. It's why governments were formed in the first place. If people weren't made to feel safe, they would rebel. Or, they'd go off and found their own society.

It's why we have militaries, and police forces, and courts of law. And, in a misguided sense, it's also why we have people who believe so strongly in socialism. Government by its very existence is a nanny state. There are differing degrees by which it delves into our personal lives, but it does to one extent or another to all of us.

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What you preach here, personal responsibility, has nothing to do with any of that. In fact, it's the antithesis of social responsibility. Personal responsibility is a form of selfishness, anarchy, individualism. The destruction of the states power to govern us. This, however, naturally must lead to chaos, which you despise. I know you despise it because you crave the ordered streets of old Prussia. You want the militaristic lifestyle where everything has a place, and nothing deviates. What you crave is social responsibility, not personal responsibility, you just balk at the cost.

Jay wrote:

I never said they were heroes or martyrs, I simply said they are human, and following the laws of nature, not the artificial construct of society. You should be proud of them. They are upholding your manifesto.

Jay wrote:

What's the natural state then lowing?

Jay wrote:

Then you are a bigger fool than I imagined. Reread all I wrote. Think about it. I am right.

lowing wrote:

Jay wrote:

Then you are a bigger fool than I imagined. Reread all I wrote. Think about it. I am right.

No thanks, what you wrote was pretty much insane. and I am in no mood. These kids are not animals driven by instinct in the wild. they are teenagers that saw free opportunity to take something for nothing without paying for it or earning it and no regard for who they hurt in doing so.

and they are not following my mantra of personal responsibility not in any stretch of the imagination, not even yours

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Jay wrote:

Then you are a bigger fool than I imagined. Reread all I wrote. Think about it. I am right.

No thanks, what you wrote was pretty much insane. and I am in no mood. These kids are not animals driven by instinct in the wild. they are teenagers that saw free opportunity to take something for nothing without paying for it or earning it and no regard for who they hurt in doing so.

and they are not following my mantra of personal responsibility not in any stretch of the imagination, not even yours

Humans are not animals. You heard it here first.

I am siding with Jay here, you either want personal responsibility i.e. every man for themselves or you want social responsibility, morals, ethics and governance.