BF2S Forums Where's the motivation? [Debt Ceiling]

Dilbert_X wrote:

Kmar wrote:

1.The ones who were supporting the cut didn't because they couldn't.

1. So they didn't do it. Glad we cleared that up.

2.This is why the vote to send troops in to action can never be underestimated. This is why if you're against the war it's important to hold everyone accountable for their votes of military action. It should never be an easy decision to put lives in danger.

2. Voting to send troops into action is not the same as reviewing the situation years after the event and questioning the writing of endless blank cheques. Rumsfeld promised it would be over in a few weeks and cost next to nothing IIRC.

Years later, when they found they've been misled over the reasons, a quick cheap invasion has turned into a decade long multi-trillion dollar quagmire, people are allowed to revise their position without being accused of being traitors who would dance on the graves of the troops.

Cutting funding doesn't even necessarily 'put lives at risk', thats GOP hyperbole, it just requires the military to adjust the tempo of their operations.

Keep setting them up. I'll keep knocking them down.

Always funny.

1. Intent matters.

2. You don't really buy the "misled" defense do you? Those same democrats decrying they were misled sat in on the same intel meetings as the GOP did. They were proclaiming Saddam was a threat long before Bush was in office. In fact I suggest you read up on the Carter doctrine which essentially said, "yea, we'll go to war for oil". Then go ahead and consider the fact Clinton also attacked Iraq under the guise of developing WMD's. Claiming they were duped in to supporting the war is even something the Dems don't stand by anymore. The reality is not only did the Dems support the war, they laid the ground for the invasion. You need to revise your talking points Dilbert. They're way outdated man.

When you consider that the troops were not properly supplied to begin with, cutting funding absolutely puts lives at risk.

You're so committed to attacking one side that you're still not getting the larger point. Which happens to be considerably more sinister then Bush being the devil for shits and giggles.

Nice op kmar, too bad it got fucked up by the daily show watchers.

mr.hrundi wrote:

to the OP

Today I read an article in a German newspaper. It said that the major problem at the moment aren't the different opinions between Democrats and Republicans, but the different opinions within the GOP. Apparently there is a guy called Eric Cantor who is quite close to the Tea Party Movement who only wants to get publicity for his side without really thinking about the real problems.
It said in the article that normally dems and reps would find a solution every side could live with, but this is prevented by these ultra-conservatives. Can anybody confirm whether that article is right or not?

I for one can't understand that the budget ceiling hasn't been raised long ago. Obviously it isn't the problems solution, but neither cuts in social programs nor taxing the rich are. Yet, the negative effects if nothing is done are in my opinion far greater.

Compromise in this case means kicking the debt can down the road... again, instead of dealing with the issues. Raising the debt ceiling and passing a budget is the easy path. The consequences will be felt long after the current administration is out of office. Our government needs to be fixed and its spending reigned in. This showdown is 30 years in the making. Your own country is well down this path already. Your economy looks strong now but your debt sits at 80% of GDP. That's unsustainable.

Jay wrote:

mr.hrundi wrote:

to the OP

Today I read an article in a German newspaper. It said that the major problem at the moment aren't the different opinions between Democrats and Republicans, but the different opinions within the GOP. Apparently there is a guy called Eric Cantor who is quite close to the Tea Party Movement who only wants to get publicity for his side without really thinking about the real problems.
It said in the article that normally dems and reps would find a solution every side could live with, but this is prevented by these ultra-conservatives. Can anybody confirm whether that article is right or not?

I for one can't understand that the budget ceiling hasn't been raised long ago. Obviously it isn't the problems solution, but neither cuts in social programs nor taxing the rich are. Yet, the negative effects if nothing is done are in my opinion far greater.

Compromise in this case means kicking the debt can down the road... again, instead of dealing with the issues. Raising the debt ceiling and passing a budget is the easy path. The consequences will be felt long after the current administration is out of office. Our government needs to be fixed and its spending reigned in. This showdown is 30 years in the making. Your own country is well down this path already. Your economy looks strong now but your debt sits at 80% of GDP. That's unsustainable.

It's true that there is no easy solution. It's only that from my (european) perspective it seems like that everybody knows that there is real trouble ahead but that nobody knows how to deal with it. The only thing every party or political organization seems to care about right now is to make it look like that it's the other's side fault, only to get elected in the next election, when the whole crap will start over again, only with the protagonists switched.
Here in Europe we currently also have problems with some states (Greece, Portugal, Ireland etc.) but there seems to be a broad consensus over all moderate parties on the fact that they must help (they don't know how to do it though). I don't have the feeling that any group wants to use the situation for its own advantage.

Jay wrote:

Nice op kmar, too bad it got fucked up by the daily show watchers.

I thought the post about spinoff technology was particularly informative.

Dunno, anyone who doesn't like either of the parties?

Could be why turnout is so low.

The US democratic system, its why you haven't had a third party in 200 years.

Whatever, no third party has made a shred of progress in 200 years, the system just suits two parties.

the way the republicans have been acting these last few years have ensured my future vote going somewhere else

eric cantor looks as bad of douchebag as really is.

taxes are the lowest theyve been in 60 years

mr.hrundi wrote:

It's true that there is no easy solution. It's only that from my (european) perspective it seems like that everybody knows that there is real trouble ahead but that nobody knows how to deal with it.

Healthcare is issue #1 that needs to be tackled in European countries. Our national statistics bureau calculated that the healthcare budget has had an average growth of 8% annually for the last 35 years & the budget has been growing faster each year. That's absolutely unsustainable, I'm sure the politicians know about that but what can you do? Expanding the healthcare budget and welfare state has been -the- major talking point for many, many parties in parliament for decades. Thus far it has been made possible at the expense of national security & by raising taxes continually.

mr.hrundi wrote:

The only thing every party or political organization seems to care about right now is to make it look like that it's the other's side fault, only to get elected in the next election, when the whole crap will start over again, only with the protagonists switched.

Welcome to politics

mr.hrundi wrote:

Here in Europe we currently also have problems with some states (Greece, Portugal, Ireland etc.) but there seems to be a broad consensus over all moderate parties on the fact that they must help (they don't know how to do it though). I don't have the feeling that any group wants to use the situation for its own advantage.

Meh. Long before the euro was adopted by many EU countries economists & political advisors knew that if they wanted the currency to be stable and truly succesful the EU was going to need a finance ministry and national governments would have to be stripped of some of their functions. Due to the reluctance of member states to relinquish any power whatsoever to the EU - Greece, Portugal etc were allowed to happen. Now the politicians of all the 'stable' member states have been trying to shift the blame on the failing countries while actually it was made possible by their complacency & subsequent inaction. They ignored all warnings they were given, it was bound to happen and now we're in a mess.

ann coulter said those exact same words on bill maher last week.