Pages: 1 … 7 8 9

 

2011-01-24 20:59:44
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6380|eXtreme to the maX

JohnG@lt wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Of course I do. But added risk and pre-existing conditions aren't always the reason for the inconsistency. As I said before it's a scam. My rate more than doubled over the course of a year for no reason. Literally. That is what prompted me to shop for a lower rate. There is no excuse for this type of behavior. Yes, thank god for a free market that allowed me to find a better RATE. The insurance companies get their money one way or another. If your rate is lower they just jack up the premium you must pay before they start paying out in benefits. I've done the math up and down the board with every major carrier. In that respect it is the same. Which pretty much adds up to price fixing.

btw, i advise staying away from insurance brokers. If you have any kind of math and reasoning skills you can do the job just as well, or in my situation, better.
http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/ … rofits.png

http://seekingalpha.com/article/155858- … ns-rank-86

Just an FYI, their profit margin is lower than most other industries... It's not the health insurance companies fault your rates go up. Blame the hospitals, the nurses unions and everything else that goes into health care. All that shit gets passed on to you.
But then Doctors and Hospital directors earn a mint, they don't care what the hospital margin is.
Fuck Israel
2011-01-24 21:01:35
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5632|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Of course I do. But added risk and pre-existing conditions aren't always the reason for the inconsistency. As I said before it's a scam. My rate more than doubled over the course of a year for no reason. Literally. That is what prompted me to shop for a lower rate. There is no excuse for this type of behavior. Yes, thank god for a free market that allowed me to find a better RATE. The insurance companies get their money one way or another. If your rate is lower they just jack up the premium you must pay before they start paying out in benefits. I've done the math up and down the board with every major carrier. In that respect it is the same. Which pretty much adds up to price fixing.

btw, i advise staying away from insurance brokers. If you have any kind of math and reasoning skills you can do the job just as well, or in my situation, better.
http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/ … rofits.png

http://seekingalpha.com/article/155858- … ns-rank-86

Just an FYI, their profit margin is lower than most other industries... It's not the health insurance companies fault your rates go up. Blame the hospitals, the nurses unions and everything else that goes into health care. All that shit gets passed on to you.
But then Doctors and Hospital directors earn a mint, they don't care what the hospital margin is.
I don't begrudge doctors what they make.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-01-24 21:09:44
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6875|132 and Bush

JohnG@lt wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Of course I do. But added risk and pre-existing conditions aren't always the reason for the inconsistency. As I said before it's a scam. My rate more than doubled over the course of a year for no reason. Literally. That is what prompted me to shop for a lower rate. There is no excuse for this type of behavior. Yes, thank god for a free market that allowed me to find a better RATE. The insurance companies get their money one way or another. If your rate is lower they just jack up the premium you must pay before they start paying out in benefits. I've done the math up and down the board with every major carrier. In that respect it is the same. Which pretty much adds up to price fixing.

btw, i advise staying away from insurance brokers. If you have any kind of math and reasoning skills you can do the job just as well, or in my situation, better.
http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/ … rofits.png

http://seekingalpha.com/article/155858- … ns-rank-86

Just an FYI, their profit margin is lower than most other industries... It's not the health insurance companies fault your rates go up. Blame the hospitals, the nurses unions and everything else that goes into health care. All that shit gets passed on to you.
Well damn, you've got a .png and everything to prove it. The medical industry has inflated prices because they must carry the burden of research and development (a lot of which comes out of the US). Insurance companies almost never take a hit, like most of the economy does in a slump. .. and they offer very little in the way of actual service. So while the margin of profit may be low, they have very little to worry about in the form of consistency. Why should that be? Why are they excluded from reacting to market conditions?

.. and btw, the carriers are very aware that they are in the cross-hairs for the time being. To post record profits right now would almost certainly spell disaster for them.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2011-01-24 22:51:13
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6949|Canberra, AUS

Dilbert_X wrote:

Spark wrote:

assuming that the european medicare/NHSs are similar to ours, then yes it should only cover fairly basic medical stuff. other stuff you need to get private insurance.
They aren't the same, they cover everything. The only factor is the wait, if you want instant treatment you pay, usually to see exactly the same person you would have seen anyway.
Hmmm I'll need to look closer but my initial reaction is that that's dodgy.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2011-01-24 23:01:37
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6875|132 and Bush

Wait is usually a pretty damn big factor when it comes to treating pain, illness, and/or disease.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2011-01-24 23:19:51
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6949|Canberra, AUS
It's not the waiting that I mind - well, no, actually, it is, I need to be convinced about this pay-to-queue-jump thing - it's more the "cover absolutely everything" thing.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2011-01-25 00:46:48
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7084|Nårvei

This discussion is getting old ...

Diehardcapitalist: Socialism fails
Socialismfanboi: Nah, it works

I wonder why some (John G@lt) always uses resources like oil and mining etc etc as an excuse as to how socialism (read socialistic capitalism) works in some countries and in addition uses fresh numbers after a global financial crisis as proof why it doesn't work in France and Greece ... some pretty impressive points tbh

For a system (capitalism or the socialistic version) to work it needs balance between government and private sector economy, the core system in Europe and the US isn't that different if you look at the basics ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2011-01-25 01:54:44
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6925|USA

dayarath wrote:

lowing wrote:

lol yeah but not every is entitled to pay the same though right? Now you know my problem with it. Why should I pay MORE while others pay less if at all.....Because I have it for the taking?
They're principles that all of society upholds. People who make more money pay more because that makes the system affordable. You could tax everyone the same but that would either mean that A; you can't afford the current system anymore or B; people in lower tax brackets get overtaxed leaving their entire income split inbetween tax and cost of living = riot. That, and the principle that if you are succesful in this society you should pay some of your succes back into it.

It doesn't in any way impair your quality of living. If you earn alot of money you will still be considerably richer than anyone in the lower brackets and should be able to afford most luxuries you wish to indulge in.
do you not think a tax on what you spend would be a more fair way to tax a society? THe rich get taxed more because they spend more, and the poor get taxed less because they spend less. THink how nice it would be if a citizen got to keep ALL of their paycheck, that way someone who doesn't make as much can spend more of their check on what they really need, AND you are not punishing achievement.
2011-01-25 01:58:04
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6925|USA

Kmar wrote:

I just find it sickening that they, the Greeks, are blaming everyone but themselves. Looking through the headlines it would seem blame is all they do now.
I sea pattern in that, most socialists will blame anything or everything for the failures of their ideology, except the ideology itself.
2011-01-25 02:07:47
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7084|Nårvei

lowing wrote:

Kmar wrote:

I just find it sickening that they, the Greeks, are blaming everyone but themselves. Looking through the headlines it would seem blame is all they do now.
I sea pattern in that, most socialists will blame anything or everything for the failures of their ideology, except the ideology itself.
And your way is better blaming the ideology by a couple of examples that really doesn't have to do with the ideology at all?

Capitalism works if you follow the ideology 100%
Socialism works if you follow the ideology 100%
Socialistic capitalism works if you follow the ideology 100%

Hell, even communism works if you follow the ideology 100%

Where the different systems fails is when the people in charge steps outside the path of the ideology to enrich themselves on the cost of the people, that happens on a daily basis in almost every country no matter what system/ideology they have adapted ... every system can be misused and some of them regulated in a such a way that it's easier to get away with it and still be in power ... the ideologies on far right and far left are heavier infested with such people, the center ideologies not so much ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2011-01-25 02:12:47
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6875|132 and Bush

lowing wrote:

Kmar wrote:

I just find it sickening that they, the Greeks, are blaming everyone but themselves. Looking through the headlines it would seem blame is all they do now.
I sea pattern in that, most socialists will blame anything or everything for the failures of their ideology, except the ideology itself.
The blame game amazes me.. Make no mistake, Greece blames the very people who saved them, the EU. They say their crisis was a result of the EU's slow response to a worsening problem.

The problems are not just confined to the domestic arena. The EU’s slow and tepid attitude in the early stages of the crisis helped it grow into a full-blown disaster. Six months after the outbreak of the Greek crisis, the EU finally decided to provide aid to Greece through the IMF. The reason for the EU’s protracted actions is its weak governance. Since the EU has no central government, member countries had to go through the European Council to discuss ways to help Greece tackle its unprecedented deficit crisis. But a coordinated response was delayed as Germany, the EU’s biggest economic powerhouse, waffled on a rescue plan, mindful of growing public opposition to a bailout of Greece and a German state election on May 9. Thus, the Merkel government refrained from swift financial aid to Greece.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2011-01-25 03:38:58
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6273|...

lowing wrote:

Kmar wrote:

I just find it sickening that they, the Greeks, are blaming everyone but themselves. Looking through the headlines it would seem blame is all they do now.
I sea pattern in that, most socialists will blame anything or everything for the failures of their ideology, except the ideology itself.
Oh come on, the ideology hasn't failed at all. The scandinavian countries are the most socialist in Europe yet they're doing fine (better than anyone else actually).

You can't blame corrupt gov. on socialism.
inane little opines
2011-01-25 03:41:49
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6273|...

Kmar wrote:

The blame game amazes me.. Make no mistake, Greece blames the very people who saved them, the EU. They say their crisis was a result of the EU's slow response to a worsening problem.
Honestly they should just be booted out of the EU when this all is over with. Disgusting.
inane little opines
2011-01-25 03:43:26
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|7006|St. Andrews / Oslo

Ilocano wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

How is a house, a car or eating food luxury items? They fall into shelter, transportation and sustenance respectively. All of which are necessary for human success. His point is valid and he found the primary flaw in any socialist system.
I understand your point, but I disagree with the premise. It all depends on what advantages you think the rich should have over the poor.

I don't believe that being rich should give you access to better and quicker medical facilities. I don't believe that being rich should give you access to a better education, either. I believe that everyone within a state deserves the same opportunities in terms of medical treatment and education, and that the bill should be split between the population depending on ability. Simple as that. There is something morally wrong, in my opinion, about depriving the less wealthy of the best medical treatment and education.

However, it is fine by me that rich people can eat at better restaurants, live in nicer houses or drive better cars. If we are to use lowing's analogy about restaurants, we'd have a government gathering extra taxes and sending the same food out to everyone. Sure, everyone would have access to the same food, the poor would get better food than they would, but it's a pointless exercise because the right to having perfectly cooked steaks every Saturday isn't even remotely close to the importance of the right to a good education.
What are you on?  The poor have as much access to any education or medical facility they want as the rich.   Don't get me started with the fact that their kids get a free ride at most top Universities, while I actually have to work to send my kids to those same top universities.
I was countering lowing's argument, I was defending socialized education and health care.. Didn't say anything about how it was in the US today.

But you do have private schools, do you not? And, generally speaking, don't these private schools attract the best teachers as they can afford to pay higher wages? Thus, the poor are missing out on the best teachers and the best education. And doesn't the same apply to health care - that private hospitals have the better doctors and more doctors pr. patient?

Generally speaking, you can pay yourself to better health care or to send your kids to a better school, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.

I agree with you on the university thing, your system is massively flawed on that front. If it were up to me, any kid should be able to go to university without having to ask their parents to pay for it, regardless if they're rich or poor. Hell, university prices shouldn't even influence where you go. You shouldn't feel like turning down an offer at Harvard because it's too pricey.

Last edited by Jenspm (2011-01-25 03:45:41)

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png https://twitter.com/phoenix/favicon.ico
2011-01-25 03:48:49
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6380|eXtreme to the maX

Spark wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Spark wrote:

assuming that the european medicare/NHSs are similar to ours, then yes it should only cover fairly basic medical stuff. other stuff you need to get private insurance.
They aren't the same, they cover everything. The only factor is the wait, if you want instant treatment you pay, usually to see exactly the same person you would have seen anyway.
Hmmm I'll need to look closer but my initial reaction is that that's dodgy.
Well, when the waiting time was zero it worked fine, now its effectively rationed by delay - although for acute problems there is no delay.
Fuck Israel
2011-01-25 04:44:33
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6628

dayarath wrote:

lowing wrote:

If practically 100% of you don't want guns to protect yourselves, why would their be a need to out law them from you. You just wouldn't buy them right?
We don't want crazies getting guns or people who aren't trained to handle a dangerous situation flinging them around. There are ample of ways to defend yourself without a gun, however if that's not possible then yes, there's the government who's supposed to do it's job - protect its citizens.
" If None of us is capable of Governing himself, than who among us is capable of governing others ? "

When you put on that 17 dollar State Issue polyester shirt and polyethylene 'ever shine' shoes* you become embodied with special powers of wisdom greater than your fellow man.

I may add that "Protecting Citizens" ** is more complicated then protecting yourself. This guy got it just right however.

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=141717


In my experience, just Presenting then gun made the goblins reverse there intended actions.

* I love that They kinda admit "[i] this guy will never be able to keep his own shoes shined, will he[/b] ? " but only they are capable of protecting us.

Considering how much emphasis people here put on formal education, that's pretty funny.

** has that ' Wonder Bread ' ring to it.

Last edited by Hunter/Jumper (2011-01-25 04:47:13)

2011-01-25 04:54:47
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6628

Dilbert_X wrote:

dayarath wrote:

lowing wrote:

If practically 100% of you don't want guns to protect yourselves, why would their be a need to out law them from you. You just wouldn't buy them right?
We don't want crazies getting guns or people who aren't trained to handle a dangerous situation flinging them around. There are ample of ways to defend yourself without a gun, however if that's not possible then yes, there's the government who's supposed to do it's job - protect its citizens.

Iowing wrote:

Wonder how many of you would vote, if given a chance, to save 8,000 dollars a year on your tax bill, but will have to spend 300 dollars a month for health insurance. Nehhhh, I bet you wouldn't take it.
That is about the amount I spend on (government) health insurance though actually.
My private healthcare AND govt healthcare doesn't amount to $300/mth.
It's percentage of your income would be a more useful figure in the argument you are putting forward.
       
                 /\
                  l

Sadly some can't read that !
2011-01-25 04:58:41
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6380|eXtreme to the maX
Why? Do your insurance premiums change with income?
Fuck Israel
2011-01-25 05:04:16
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6628

Dilbert_X wrote:

Why? Do your insurance premiums change with income?
My taxes do, How do you think we are going to pay for our FREE Healthcare ?

 

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