That's not profitable at all. We may have some lingering antagonism with Russia, but for the most part, we're on the same team in many respects.Shahter wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
How so?Shahter wrote:
fixed.Shahter wrote:
killing 35000 russians a year.
Last edited by Turquoise (2010-12-30 10:26:51)
11 Bravo wrote:
hey shitler dont you have a nazi riot against muslims to go to?
There have been recent joint US & Russian operations to dystroy herion labs in afganistan....karzai wans't impressed when he found out though.Turquoise wrote:
That's not profitable at all. We may have some lingering antagonism with Russia, but for the most part, we're on the same team in many respects.Shahter wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
How so?Shahter wrote:
killing 35000 russians a year.
Ever since America actually started getting serious about fighting terrorism, we have mutual interests in subduing extremists. We even both contend with Islamic extremists more specifically.
Pretty much... Russia gets its drugs from a lot of sources, just like America does.m3thod wrote:
There have been recent joint US & Russian operations to dystroy herion labs in afganistan....karzai wans't impressed when he found out though.
(I still find it a bit odd they soley blame opium from afgan for all those deaths....how about extensive corruption & lack of education & prosperity....)
absolutely not. there are too many of us living here in this bloody fridge consuming resources that could be shipped to china instead so that they'd build more iphones and maibachs for you. 35000 less russians means that much oil and gas spent on you fulfilling your so called "dream" of shitting pure diamonds.Turquoise wrote:
That's not profitable at all. We may have some lingering antagonism with Russia, but for the most part, we're on the same team in many respects.Shahter wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
How so?Shahter wrote:
killing 35000 russians a year.
you didn't.Ever since America actually started getting serious about fighting terrorism
there were never any "mutual interests". we are still sitting on a shitload of resources that couls be "better" spent elsewere. in this global economy usa & co have going on out there we - russians - are totally ineffective and uncompetitive, regardless of what we do. thus, we are being reduced to "economically feasible" numbers. narcotics are just about perfect for the job.we have mutual interests in subduing extremists. We even both contend with Islamic extremists more specifically.
who said we "solely" blame the problem on afghan?m3thod wrote:
I still find it a bit odd they soley blame opium from afgan for all those deaths....
as long as we have "democracy and freedom" running here, there's nothing we can do about corruption, lack of education and all that jazz.how about extensive corruption & lack of education & prosperity....
orly? enlighten me, except afghan, were else does russia gets all the heroin shipped from?Turquoise wrote:
Russia gets its drugs from a lot of sources
not only usa does care about afghanistan opium production - it actually protects the business and keeps it going.FatherTed wrote:
so you're saying the US doesnt care about poppy farming in afghanistan because it kills russians
Last edited by Shahter (2010-12-30 14:08:45)
But the security agencies turn a fat profit from it don't they?Turquoise wrote:
I didn't say that. I was asking exactly how we turn a profit from it. I realize the CIA does some shady shit, but overall, the War on Drugs costs our government more than it makes from it.
eleven bravo wrote:
you have to be on drugs to live in russia
What the hell are you talking about? You have your oil, we have ours. How does killing more Russians equal more profit for us? When it comes to resources, it's a matter of increasing consumption that leads to more profit, because more scarcity equals rises in value.Shahter wrote:
absolutely not. there are too many of us living here in this bloody fridge consuming resources that could be shipped to china instead so that they'd build more iphones and maibachs for you. 35000 less russians means that much oil and gas spent on you fulfilling your so called "dream" of shitting pure diamonds.
Care to elaborate?Shahter wrote:
you didn't.
Your nukes have nothing to do with your economic progress. If anything, this START treaty will benefit the both of us. You need to focus more on your oil sales, and we need to focus more on paying down our debts.Shahter wrote:
there were never any "mutual interests". we are still sitting on a shitload of resources that couls be "better" spent elsewere. in this global economy usa & co have going on out there we - russians - are totally ineffective and uncompetitive, regardless of what we do. thus, we are being reduced to "economically feasible" numbers. narcotics are just about perfect for the job.
if anything, russia's only allowed a say in international affairs because of whatever we have left in the ways of soviet military - namely nukes. that, basically, is the only thing standing between us and total domination by "enlightened west".
Yeah, Putin's version of those things does that.Shahter wrote:
as long as we have "democracy and freedom" running here, there's nothing we can do about corruption, lack of education and all that jazz.
Afghanistan does produce a ton of opium and it is Russia's primary source of illicit opiates in general. I'm not denying that. I said "drugs", not opium or heroin specifically. If you think Afghanistan is the sole source of your drug problems in general, think again.Shahter wrote:
orly? enlighten me, except afghan, were else does russia gets all the heroin shipped from?
i'm talking about so called "global economy" you run. the less you have to spend on "ineffective and uncompetitive" the more you will have to spend on shitting diamonds. it's quite simple, actually.Turquoise wrote:
What the hell are you talking about?Shahter wrote:
absolutely not. there are too many of us living here in this bloody fridge consuming resources that could be shipped to china instead so that they'd build more iphones and maibachs for you. 35000 less russians means that much oil and gas spent on you fulfilling your so called "dream" of shitting pure diamonds.
you do nothing to combat terrorism. instead you abuse the opportunities it presents for you to spread your influence.Turquoise wrote:
Care to elaborate?Shahter wrote:
you didn't.
there's no economic progress in russia. we've been in a state of constant degradation since ussr collapsed - much to usa's interest. and the only thing that keeps us from falling under your complete control is our nukes. end of story.Turquoise wrote:
Your nukes have nothing to do with your economic progress. If anything, this START treaty will benefit the both of us. You need to focus more on your oil sales, and we need to focus more on paying down our debts.
any version of that shit does that. the only way to combat corruption and stuff it entails is totalitarism.Turquoise wrote:
Yeah, Putin's version of those things does that.Shahter wrote:
as long as we have "democracy and freedom" running here, there's nothing we can do about corruption, lack of education and all that jazz.
wat? "outside world" has never been able to do anything with their own drug problems. in soviet times on the other hand, most people here didn't even know what the word "narcotics" means. so thank you very much, we know exactly how to handle the problem - will you let us napalm bomb the fucking opium plantations in afghanistan? no? then shut the fuck up, would you kindly.Turquoise wrote:
Afghanistan does produce a ton of opium and it is Russia's primary source of illicit opiates in general. I'm not denying that. I said "drugs", not opium or heroin specifically. If you think Afghanistan is the sole source of your drug problems in general, think again.Shahter wrote:
orly? enlighten me, except afghan, were else does russia gets all the heroin shipped from?
Here's a good summary of how your government engages in a lot of blame shifting toward the West about the opium problem.
http://www.opendemocracy.net/openrussia … blame-west
If your society would accept more advice from the outside world, you'd be better able to handle drug issues in your country.
Take a look around. I think you'll find dozens of democracies that are in far better shape than Russia. In fact I think you'll find the vast majority of countries in the top 50% of the HDI are democracies. Perhaps it is Russia's terrible implementation of such a system and the neglect of its citizens that has lead to corruption and poor education.Shahter wrote:
any version of that shit does that. the only way to combat corruption and stuff it entails is totalitarism.
Last edited by Little BaBy JESUS (2010-12-31 00:33:59)
those are at the top of the pyramid, corruption is paid for simply by printing more money in those parts. and there's no way to ascend there for anybody - all the places are taken.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
Take a look around. I think you'll find dozens of democracies that are in far better shape than Russia. In fact I think you'll find the vast majority of countries in the top 50% of the HDI are democracies.Shahter wrote:
any version of that shit does that. the only way to combat corruption and stuff it entails is totalitarism.
the system in russia haven't been implemented by russians. and about "poor education" - go google literacy rates among populations of different coutries and see were you stand yourself.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
Perhaps it is Russia's terrible implementation of such a system and the neglect of its citizens that has lead to corruption and poor education.
absolutely. these days, after embracing new ways of freedom and democracy, we have perfect species of our own "evil imperialists" right here destroying what's left of the ussr.Sorry, the USSRs days are over, you can't blame the "evil imperialist West" for your problems anymore.
Last edited by Shahter (2010-12-31 00:51:37)
You're being rather vague here. Killing Russians off through drug addiction doesn't benefit us.Shahter wrote:
i'm talking about so called "global economy" you run. the less you have to spend on "ineffective and uncompetitive" the more you will have to spend on shitting diamonds. it's quite simple, actually.
As does anyone else in foreign policy. Look, I'm not saying we lack ulterior motives, but to say we do "nothing" about terrorism is just ignorant.Shahter wrote:
you do nothing to combat terrorism. instead you abuse the opportunities it presents for you to spread your influence.
So you're saying you would prefer the return of a Communist state? I know Putin blurs the lines between your current government and the past one, but even as corrupt as he is, he's still not as bad as someone like Stalin.Shahter wrote:
there's no economic progress in russia. we've been in a state of constant degradation since ussr collapsed - much to usa's interest. and the only thing that keeps us from falling under your complete control is our nukes. end of story.
The only side of that I agree with is executing corporate criminals. Beyond that, I'd say totalitarianism is the last thing you want.Shahter wrote:
any version of that shit does that. the only way to combat corruption and stuff it entails is totalitarism.
No, you can. Look at Portugal. They decriminalized most drugs, and while it is true that their rehabs have gone up in costs, their drug crime is much, much lower.Shahter wrote:
wat? "outside world" has never been able to do anything with their own drug problems. in soviet times on the other hand, most people here didn't even know what the word "narcotics" means. so thank you very much, we know exactly how to handle the problem - will you let us napalm bomb the fucking opium plantations in afghanistan? no? then shut the fuck up, would you kindly.
Tell that to South Korea. They went from being a third world country to a first world one in a matter of 30 years. You're at a higher starting point than they were, so surely, you can make similar progress.Shahter wrote:
those are at the top of the pyramid, corruption is paid for simply by printing more money in those parts. and there's no way to ascend there for anybody - all the places are taken.
Do share...Shahter wrote:
the system in russia haven't been implemented by russians.
*shakes head* Do tell what you would like to preserve about the USSR. So far as I can tell, there was nothing worth preserving to start with.Shahter wrote:
absolutely. these days, after embracing new ways of freedom and democracy, we have perfect species of our own "evil imperialists" right here destroying what's left of the ussr.
We've done some shady shit in South America, so there is some truth to this. However, the situation in Afghanistan is very different and much more complicated.Dilbert_X wrote:
But the security agencies turn a fat profit from it don't they?Turquoise wrote:
I didn't say that. I was asking exactly how we turn a profit from it. I realize the CIA does some shady shit, but overall, the War on Drugs costs our government more than it makes from it.
Shiny toys, fat salaries, generous pensions etc etc?
And CIA sponsored militias are often encouraged to deal drugs so the CIA doesn't have to pay them so much aren't they?
which "us" are you talking about? you, Turq the awsm? - unless you have something to do with those, who profit off of drug trade in afghan, no, it doesn't benefit you. the thing is - usa is a nation, probably THE greatest nation there ever was, which means it's not concerned with your personal interests at all. and in dealings between nations there can only be one thing - competition for resources and power. what earns certain nation more of those or diminishes those of the rest is beneficial the the nation in question.Turquoise wrote:
You're being rather vague here. Killing Russians off through drug addiction doesn't benefit us.Shahter wrote:
i'm talking about so called "global economy" you run. the less you have to spend on "ineffective and uncompetitive" the more you will have to spend on shitting diamonds. it's quite simple, actually.
heard that a million times. again, you are confusing things. nobody has ever been able to fight terrorism with an army. nobody has even been able to do that by "winning them over" - to think that is fucking preposterous. throughout the history of human civilization, every incident of a nation going to war claiming they did it for any reasons other than to spread it's influence or grab resouces has been proven to be but a pretence (unless of course it was to retaliate against a nation-aggressor). are you honestly telling me that you are the first to truly do that? to "spread democracy, freedom, and to bring terrorists to justice"? really? you went overseas with an army, spent bloody billions - all that shit to do, what, play whack-a-mole? those, who make extraordinary clams, turq, need to present some extra-fucking-ordinary evidence. so far i'm not impressed at all.Turquoise wrote:
As does anyone else in foreign policy. Look, I'm not saying we lack ulterior motives, but to say we do "nothing" about terrorism is just ignorant.Shahter wrote:
you do nothing to combat terrorism. instead you abuse the opportunities it presents for you to spread your influence.
you know nothing about stalin or "communist state" for that matter, dude.Turquoise wrote:
So you're saying you would prefer the return of a Communist state? I know Putin blurs the lines between your current government and the past one, but even as corrupt as he is, he's still not as bad as someone like Stalin.Shahter wrote:
there's no economic progress in russia. we've been in a state of constant degradation since ussr collapsed - much to usa's interest. and the only thing that keeps us from falling under your complete control is our nukes. end of story.
refer to previous quote.Turquoise wrote:
The only side of that I agree with is executing corporate criminals. Beyond that, I'd say totalitarianism is the last thing you want.Shahter wrote:
any version of that shit does that. the only way to combat corruption and stuff it entails is totalitarism.
a little perspective for you. bellow are some pictures - careful, some of those are very disturbing - of people, who abuse legal drugs here:Turquoise wrote:
No, you can. Look at Portugal. They decriminalized most drugs, and while it is true that their rehabs have gone up in costs, their drug crime is much, much lower.Shahter wrote:
wat? "outside world" has never been able to do anything with their own drug problems. in soviet times on the other hand, most people here didn't even know what the word "narcotics" means. so thank you very much, we know exactly how to handle the problem - will you let us napalm bomb the fucking opium plantations in afghanistan? no? then shut the fuck up, would you kindly.
One of the first things you need to do is to decriminalize drugs, and then you can focus on rehabbing addicts. The current hardliner stance on drugs that Russia takes is counterproductive. Even if Afghanistan ceased all production of opium tomorrow, your system would still be dysfunctional in dealing with drugs.
you don't know the half of it, man. there's time for everything. russia's not ready to have drugs de-criminalized - that i can tell you for sure.Turquoise wrote:
And believe me, America is waking up to this as well. Because of our own mandatory drug sentencing, we've been filling up our prisons with addicts and dealers. It's not working here, and it's not going to work for you either.
Last edited by Shahter (2011-01-02 23:55:14)
bad example. first, we aren't nearly as good as koreans to start in all this - our climate and geographical specifics make us just about comletely ineffective compared to korea. and second, korea is not nearly up there at the top at all - it's a sweat shop, were people work 14 hours a day with no days off. is that what you call a "first world country"? really?Turquoise wrote:
Tell that to South Korea. They went from being a third world country to a first world one in a matter of 30 years. You're at a higher starting point than they were, so surely, you can make similar progress.Shahter wrote:
those are at the top of the pyramid, corruption is paid for simply by printing more money in those parts. and there's no way to ascend there for anybody - all the places are taken.
i'm sure you can google who was consulting gorbachev and yeltsyn's crew on how to implement "freedom and democracy" here yourself.Turquoise wrote:
Do share...Shahter wrote:
the system in russia haven't been implemented by russians.
self-sufficient economy.Turquoise wrote:
*shakes head* Do tell what you would like to preserve about the USSR. So far as I can tell, there was nothing worth preserving to start with.Shahter wrote:
absolutely. these days, after embracing new ways of freedom and democracy, we have perfect species of our own "evil imperialists" right here destroying what's left of the ussr.
turq only asked me about what would i like preserved. i answered that question.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
Wow, the USSR sounds like a paradise.
every revolution in history produces people who's only better skill is tearing things apart. and every new regime that comes into being as a result of a revolution has to deal with those people after there's no more need for them.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
If you excuse all the political executions
"personal liberties" is subjective notion.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
restriction of personal liberties
you, understandably, have no idea what you are talking about.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
corruption and neglect of almost all government endeavors other than the military.
Last edited by Shahter (2011-01-03 04:13:15)
I'm aware that the CIA has a history of getting involved with drug trade, but it's the consumption of drugs that is profitable - not specifically the killing of drug users.Shahter wrote:
which "us" are you talking about? you, Turq the awsm? - unless you have something to do with those, who profit off of drug trade in afghan, no, it doesn't benefit you. the thing is - usa is a nation, probably THE greatest nation there ever was, which means it's not concerned with your personal interests at all. and in dealings between nations there can only be one thing - competition for resources and power. what earns certain nation more of those or diminishes those of the rest is beneficial the the nation in question.
I didn't say we've done it solely to fight terror. Nearly every war has multiple reasons.Shahter wrote:
heard that a million times. again, you are confusing things. nobody has ever been able to fight terrorism with an army. nobody has even been able to do that by "winning them over" - to think that is fucking preposterous. throughout the history of human civilization, every incident of a nation going to war claiming they did it for any reasons other than to spread it's influence or grab resouces has been proven to be but a pretence (unless of course it was to retaliate against a nation-aggressor). are you honestly telling me that you are the first to truly do that? to "spread democracy, freedom, and to bring terrorists to justice"? really? you went overseas with an army, spent bloody billions - all that shit to do, what, play whack-a-mole? those, who make extraordinary clams, turq, need to present some extra-fucking-ordinary evidence. so far i'm not impressed at all.
I know Stalin killed about as many people as Hitler.Shahter wrote:
you know nothing about stalin or "communist state" for that matter, dude.
...and I suppose you're suggesting the legal ones should be banned? I can play this game too. You can't legislate everything. It seems odd to me that you recognize the difficulties in changing people's mindsets with regard to terrorism, but you're all for legislating what substances people can use recreationally.Shahter wrote:
a little perspective for you. bellow are some pictures - careful, some of those are very disturbing - of people, who abuse legal drugs here:
http://ura.ru/upload/1(475).jpg
http://ura.ru/upload/2(533).jpg
http://ura.ru/upload/3(455).jpg
http://ura.ru/upload/4(339).jpg
http://ura.ru/upload/5(281).jpg
and you suggest we decriminalize the rest? really?
I'd say the fact that you have the world's second largest incarceration rate per capita (the first being America's) makes it nigh impossible for Russia to continue its current course. You're going to have to change whether you like it or not....Shahter wrote:
you don't know the half of it, man. there's time for everything. russia's not ready to have drugs de-criminalized - that i can tell you for sure.
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