When I joined it was Be All You Can Be. Shortly after that it was Army Of One. We used to harass the people that joined to be an Army of One to no end. I don't think any recruiting slogan has caused more hazing in the history of the militaryrdx-fx wrote:
I don't think the games are a cause. More of an indicator, perhaps.Trotskygrad wrote:
point #2 is that video games that are the most popular (MW2, cough, cough) don't emphasize teamwork in combat, and it makes it a harder job for DIs to train this skill (But that's irrelevant to the main point, so...)
Soloist people tend towards games where being a soloist is rewarded (MW2).
Teamwork oriented people tend towards games where teamwork is rewarded (IL-2, ArmA, Silent Hunter, Civilization)
And these people that have problems adapting to the structured environment of the military, that's also not a generational issue.
More to the point, it's an issue with the blatantly bullshit PR lines being thrown at an already cynical population.
Look at the recruiting commercials - a pile of mo-tard bullshit propaganda that even Michael Bay would look at and ask "oh, WTF?! who'd belive that shit?!"
Now, you're going to ask people to truly believe in an institution that presents itself like that?
Then you run into their already cynical nature, which disregards as propaganda any effort to "sell" them on the values of duty, sacrifice, country, patriotism. And if they aren't laughing after that, then when you try to convince them that there are more important things than themselves, and that the world will keep on spinning long after they're gone... that will have them doubled over in fits of laughter.
I've had enough group punishment to know what that's likeJohnG@lt wrote:
I don't see why that's an issue at all though. It's supposed to be the recruiters job to weed them out, and if they get by the recruiter, the drill sergeants will damn well chase them out. Out of any basic training class, a good 1/4 or so will quit, be kicked out, or find some other way to get out like faking asthma. My BCT platoon had half of a squad do the fake asthma thingTrotskygrad wrote:
again, that's semi-irrelevantJohnG@lt wrote:
There's a million other ways that teamwork is learned though... whether it's group projects in class, playing for a sports team, or even getting assigned to a team in gym class. Kids that end up joining the military aren't usually the fat loners who sat against the wall in gym class.
yes, I know there are other ways that teamwork is learned. I didn't learn teamwork from games.
Point is, some people dislike having to work with other people, but they seem to like playing MW2, so they think that warfare is not a team activity. Or one that involves a lot of cooperation. So they decide to join the military, or they think about it.
You want to know the most effective way drill sergeants teach teamwork? I fucking hated it too. Mass punishment. One person fucks up, everyone does pushups and runs laps. Nothing is an individual thing. For the first six weeks of basic I swear to god I spent a good four hours a day on my face doing pushups because someone else fucked up. If shit like that doesn't teach the kid that 'we're all in this together and completely dependent on each other' nothing will.
that's the problemEven though they probably will not get through, it's still more shit to process
Exactly. The current commercials are what a civilian PR wonk thinks will get the most number of mush-minded drones sold. Like most modern advertising.Phrozenbot wrote:
rdx-fx, if recruitment videos are bad, then they will fail to gain the desired recruit and possibly end up with someone undesirable. I would equate it to bad marketing.
Teamwork oriented people will tend towards games that reward teamwork, much more often than the Soloist will tend towards such games that actively punish his preferred method of play.Phrozenbot wrote:
But anyways, are you saying playing sociable video games indicates how well you'll use the buddy system? lol
The army should seriously start considering to start stealing people from the peace corps and other NGOs, especially after what they did in Haiti.rdx-fx wrote:
Exactly. The current commercials are what a civilian PR wonk thinks will get the most number of mush-minded drones sold. Like most modern advertising.Phrozenbot wrote:
rdx-fx, if recruitment videos are bad, then they will fail to gain the desired recruit and possibly end up with someone undesirable. I would equate it to bad marketing.
A more honest commercial, likely to get more desirable recruits would be along the lines of;
"It's hard, it will suck at times, you might get killed. But someone has to do it. Can you?"
or
that line from Blackhawk Down
"Look, these people have no jobs, no food, no education, and no future. i just figure that, ya know, I mean we have two things we can do. We can help, or we can sit back and watch a country destroy itself on CNN. Right? I think I was trained to make a difference."
Soldiers on the ground might be trying to make a difference, but the politicians in DC are just concerned with how they look on CNN.Trotskygrad wrote:
The army should seriously start considering to start stealing people from the peace corps and other NGOs, especially after what they did in Haiti.
Under the "make a global difference" banner.
Because we ALL know that we're just trying to help the poor Afghans and Iraqis.
I like the Aussie ad. Was a bit of PR shine, on top of an apparently honest message.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
semi on topic.
But what do you guys this about different recruiting techniques attracting different people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X99oYW75jkM
Personally, this sort of ad inspires me to join more than some like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9LJtggZYes
Does this ad actually work in America? because this just seems really cliche and cheesy and directed at some sort of post-911 patriotism.
(btw i'm not trying to say aus vs us... but just different styles of ads etc)
+1, very good point.11 Bravo wrote:
if an ad persuades you to join the military then you are exactly what some of the responses to the OP describes
http://www.theonion.com/articles/life-i … mer,11181/11 Bravo wrote:
if an ad persuades you to join the military then you are exactly what some of the responses to the OP describes
fuck sakerdx-fx wrote:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/life-i … mer,11181/11 Bravo wrote:
if an ad persuades you to join the military then you are exactly what some of the responses to the OP describes
I remember thinking similar to this when there was that Apache video and people were all so shocked and apalled at how the pilots were casually conversing about doing the task at hand instead of crying over each others shoulders about having killed people. American people really need to get accurate sources on what war and the military in general is like.JohnG@lt wrote:
Isn't that a good thing? Sucks having your buddy die next to you but if you dehumanize the process it allows you to Charlie Mike. My gripe with the entertainment industry is that they try to attach such ridiculous standards to peoples behavior in combat that people feel there must be something wrong with them, that they must be suffering from PTSD if they don't react the exact same way that Hollywood actors do when they take a life on film. Real life isn't shooting someone and then taking an hour to sort through your grief over harming some poor soul with a wife, six kids and a mortgage payment. If anything has made people soft, it isn't video games, it's the goddamn movie industry and their faux intellectual psychology bullshit.Trotskygrad wrote:
well...JohnG@lt wrote:
I fail to see how it is any different from previous generations that grew up on Howdie Doodie and John Wayne movies. I'd say kids are MORE prepared now than they were in the past, especially with the ridiculously graphic movies that have come out over the past twenty years. Just really dumb generalizations throughout the second half of this thread.
I can make a point regarding that.
part my point is that they think the casualties in war are a lot more "faceless" and inhuman. When someone dies in a game's SP, you never REALLY care. In the movies, they try pretty damn hard to MAKE you care.
you are familiar with The Onion, right? satire paper11 Bravo wrote:
fuck sakerdx-fx wrote:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/life-i … mer,11181/11 Bravo wrote:
if an ad persuades you to join the military then you are exactly what some of the responses to the OP describes
yes and when i see onion i do not read it. sorry.rdx-fx wrote:
you are familiar with The Onion, right? satire paper11 Bravo wrote:
fuck sake
A certain percentage of dropouts is built into the system. They aren't wasting time on anyone. Trust me.Trotskygrad wrote:
I've had enough group punishment to know what that's likeJohnG@lt wrote:
I don't see why that's an issue at all though. It's supposed to be the recruiters job to weed them out, and if they get by the recruiter, the drill sergeants will damn well chase them out. Out of any basic training class, a good 1/4 or so will quit, be kicked out, or find some other way to get out like faking asthma. My BCT platoon had half of a squad do the fake asthma thingTrotskygrad wrote:
again, that's semi-irrelevant
yes, I know there are other ways that teamwork is learned. I didn't learn teamwork from games.
Point is, some people dislike having to work with other people, but they seem to like playing MW2, so they think that warfare is not a team activity. Or one that involves a lot of cooperation. So they decide to join the military, or they think about it.
You want to know the most effective way drill sergeants teach teamwork? I fucking hated it too. Mass punishment. One person fucks up, everyone does pushups and runs laps. Nothing is an individual thing. For the first six weeks of basic I swear to god I spent a good four hours a day on my face doing pushups because someone else fucked up. If shit like that doesn't teach the kid that 'we're all in this together and completely dependent on each other' nothing will.
"No one is going ANYWHERE until we complete flag with EVERYONE properly dressed"
but like I said earlier ini the threadthat's the problemEven though they probably will not get through, it's still more shit to process
more shit to process, means less time on each candidate, etc, etc.
Which means you can't weed out the crazies who have it REALLY fucked in the head, but are EXTREMELY adept at covering it up.
I said that in the thread Everyone was like zomg they're so mean. No, they're fucking professional.DesertFox- wrote:
I remember thinking similar to this when there was that Apache video and people were all so shocked and apalled at how the pilots were casually conversing about doing the task at hand instead of crying over each others shoulders about having killed people. American people really need to get accurate sources on what war and the military in general is like.JohnG@lt wrote:
Isn't that a good thing? Sucks having your buddy die next to you but if you dehumanize the process it allows you to Charlie Mike. My gripe with the entertainment industry is that they try to attach such ridiculous standards to peoples behavior in combat that people feel there must be something wrong with them, that they must be suffering from PTSD if they don't react the exact same way that Hollywood actors do when they take a life on film. Real life isn't shooting someone and then taking an hour to sort through your grief over harming some poor soul with a wife, six kids and a mortgage payment. If anything has made people soft, it isn't video games, it's the goddamn movie industry and their faux intellectual psychology bullshit.Trotskygrad wrote:
well...
I can make a point regarding that.
part my point is that they think the casualties in war are a lot more "faceless" and inhuman. When someone dies in a game's SP, you never REALLY care. In the movies, they try pretty damn hard to MAKE you care.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-08-28 20:21:45)
Well personally advertising had absolutely nothing to do with my decision to join the military.11 Bravo wrote:
if an ad persuades you to join the military then you are exactly what some of the responses to the OP describes
The link was rather humorous.11 Bravo wrote:
yes and when i see onion i do not read it. sorry.rdx-fx wrote:
you are familiar with The Onion, right? satire paper11 Bravo wrote:
fuck sake
The Onion wrote:
After I graduated from high school, I was making good money painting houses, my girlfriend was cool with a rockin' little bod, and I partied almost every night. But after a year or so, I started to wonder: "If someone wrote a book about my life, would anyone want to read it?"
I wanted discipline and training, but I didn't want to give up my hard-rockin' lifestyle. Where, I wondered, could that elusive combination of rigid authoritarian structure and unbridled monster power chords be found? Then I saw a commercial for the U.S. Navy. That's when I knew what to do with my life.
And guess what? The U.S. Navy fucking kicks ass, dude. From the time we're awoken at 06:00 by System Of A Down or Disturbed till we drift off to sleep to an instrumental guitar version of "Taps" performed by Zakk Wylde, it's a nonstop rock block.
How do I even begin to describe the constant barrage of adrenaline-fueled, over-the-top kick-assitude that is the U.S. Navy? Every day is like a rapid-fire montage sequence of high-tech action and thrill-ride imagery that makes your fuckin' head spin.
One minute, I'm crouched on the deck of an aircraft carrier barking something into a helmet-mounted headset that you can't even friggin' hear because the music's so loud. Next, I'm dashing through the Mojave under the weight of a large pack and jumping out of a helicopter into the ocean wearing some kind of James Bond one-man submersible scuba suit. If I'm not roarin' down the high seas with the wind in my hair and 800 pounds of rad-ass Batman shit strapped to my uniform, I'm standing at perfect attention in my dress whites, fucking whippin' a sword around like I'm a goddamn samurai master.
