In terms of influencing other democracies I'd say the US model is essentially trivial - apart from for those countries which have had 'democracy' rammed down their throats by the US military.
Fuck Israel
ok now you guys are sounding as bad as lowing
Tu Stultus Es
France was ran by a king who even supported the US revolution so wtf you on about? US was the first democracy in the modern era. Yes the UK did have a parliament, but its a constitutional monarchy and not yet a true democracy. Either way, the US constitution did become a model for a lot of constitutions (US did steal parts of the UK bill of rights afaik).Dilbert_X wrote:
And France, they had democracy before the US existed, and Britain, the Mother of Parliaments, and Russia, they did away with their Royal Family, and .... no doubt there are others.FatherTed wrote:
Oh you must have missed Ancient Greece, nvm.Cybargs wrote:
For me the Magna Carta is right next to it. Shit the rest of the world was being ran by kings and queens till WW1. US was the only democracy till then, sure there were a shitload of hypocrisies (especially in regards to slavery).
yes not a true democracy but you know what i mean
For example?the US constitution did become a model for a lot of constitutions
Exactly, the UK was first with rights and Parliamentary democracy.US did steal parts of the UK bill of rights afaik
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-08-03 00:10:47)
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Mexico, Germany, UDHR (not a legally binding document but...), Argentina and a lot of South American governments during the 1800s.Dilbert_X wrote:
For example?the US constitution did become a model for a lot of constitutions
http://www.novelguide.com/a/discover/ea … 01293.html
Dilbert you must remember Americans are descendants of Europeans... they did take a lot of ideas with them.
Last edited by Cybargs (2010-08-03 00:15:02)
In which case the British BOR and system of govt, and other european influences are somewhat more significant than the US constitution, since they predate it.Cybargs wrote:
Dilbert you must remember Americans are descendants of Europeans... they did take a lot of ideas with them.
History doesn't begin with the declaration of independence.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-08-03 00:57:24)
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Thomas Jefferson wrote the French Constitution so I fail to see how the French predate us... 1781 > 1792Dilbert_X wrote:
For example?the US constitution did become a model for a lot of constitutions
That said, none of the ideas espoused by the 'founding fathers' of the US was original. They borrowed heavily from Locke, Descartes, Hume, Paine and myriad other sources including Greek texts (Jefferson was fluent in Greek). Were they the first to put all these philosophies into action? Yes, simply because they had a clean slate to work with.
I know you have an unbridled and irrational hatred of America but give credit where its due.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
What was then, was.JohnG@lt wrote:
Thomas Jefferson wrote the French Constitution so I fail to see how the French predate us... 1781 > 1792Dilbert_X wrote:
For example?the US constitution did become a model for a lot of constitutions
That said, none of the ideas espoused by the 'founding fathers' of the US was original. They borrowed heavily from Locke, Descartes, Hume, Paine and myriad other sources including Greek texts (Jefferson was fluent in Greek). Were they the first to put all these philosophies into action? Yes, simply because they had a clean slate to work with.
I know you have an unbridled and irrational hatred of America but give credit where its due.
What is now, is.
Its more people who think the US is the greatest country in the universe, when they don't have any knowledge of history or the rest of the world.JohnG@lt wrote:
I know you have an unbridled and irrational hatred of America but give credit where its due.
Um not really.Thomas Jefferson wrote the French Constitution
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-08-03 06:27:18)
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Saurce? My own (brief) trawlings have come up blank thus far.JohnG@lt wrote:
Thomas Jefferson wrote the French Constitution so I fail to see how the French predate us... 1781 > 1792Dilbert_X wrote:
For example?the US constitution did become a model for a lot of constitutions
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
It was never done openly, but his writings, particularly "Notes on the State of Virginia", his work on the Virginia Constitution and of course the Declaration of Independence were wildly famous in France at the time. He was also the US ambassador and living in Paris at the time of the revolution in 1789. There's no conclusive proof that he did indeed write it out, but the people who did write it visited him frequently at the time and his servants reported him busily writing letters and other pieces to key members of the revolution at the time.
So, either way, even if he didn't write it with his own hand, he played a large part in forming the basic ideas behind the French constitution.
I read it in this book:
So, either way, even if he didn't write it with his own hand, he played a large part in forming the basic ideas behind the French constitution.
I read it in this book:
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-08-03 07:22:04)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Ah you meant "wrote it" as in indirectly. My mistake, I assumed you meant he actually physically wrote it for them.
EDIT: Did find a fair bit about his heavy 'interest' in the French Revolution though.
EDIT: Did find a fair bit about his heavy 'interest' in the French Revolution though.
Last edited by Spark (2010-08-03 07:22:29)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
It's thought that he might have. Some people have compared the handwriting and seen that it was very similar.Spark wrote:
Ah you meant "wrote it" as in indirectly. My mistake, I assumed you meant he actually physically wrote it for them.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Turns out he wasn'tjord wrote:
Think he's being sarcastic.oug wrote:
Off topic but omg get a grip man. Better yet get a proper education. The world's been around a wee bit more than 250 years... :SCybargs wrote:
The US constitution is the most important piece of document for personal liberty in the history of man kind and a lot of constitutions have modeled after it.
Anyway Cybargs, the US constitution is certainly not a product of parthenogenesis. If you want to trace back to the origin of the ideas in it you need to go back a couple of thousand years.
btw your slavery remark is rather infantile so I'll ignore it
nice little derail I did there btw
ƒ³
the british constitution is a pretty old docu....oh yeah, i forgot.
Tu Stultus Es
.... Sooo anyways, I hope they find the others involved. Apparently there a big brother online? Outrage anyone?
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
lol what a comment from you, you have constantly supported the war in Iraq which is Illegal and against the Constitution.Cybargs wrote:
The US constitution is the most important piece of document for personal liberty in the history of man kind and a lot of constitutions have modeled after it.Ioan92 wrote:
patriotism/ nationalism is outdated, and that constitution thing makes me laugh.
Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me. oh and where does it say that war is illegal under the constitution? you do realize the prez is the commander in chief of the us armed forces. iraq war isn't illegal, they already had an icj hearing and icj didn't rule it illegal gg.LostFate wrote:
lol what a comment from you, you have constantly supported the war in Iraq which is Illegal and against the Constitution.Cybargs wrote:
The US constitution is the most important piece of document for personal liberty in the history of man kind and a lot of constitutions have modeled after it.Ioan92 wrote:
patriotism/ nationalism is outdated, and that constitution thing makes me laugh.
UN reso 1441 let the US roll into iraq. hell it was voted unanimously.
Last edited by Cybargs (2010-08-03 11:35:20)
ffs you guises made sweet baby jsus weep
In that case didn't John Locke write the US constitution?JohnG@lt wrote:
It was never done openly, but his writings, particularly "Notes on the State of Virginia", his work on the Virginia Constitution and of course the Declaration of Independence were wildly famous in France at the time. He was also the US ambassador and living in Paris at the time of the revolution in 1789. There's no conclusive proof that he did indeed write it out, but the people who did write it visited him frequently at the time and his servants reported him busily writing letters and other pieces to key members of the revolution at the time.
So, either way, even if he didn't write it with his own hand, he played a large part in forming the basic ideas behind the French constitution.
I read it in this book:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/7 … _OU01_.gif
Jefferson just did a cut and paste.
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He can certainly be credited with a portion of it, yes.Dilbert_X wrote:
In that case didn't John Locke write the US constitution?JohnG@lt wrote:
It was never done openly, but his writings, particularly "Notes on the State of Virginia", his work on the Virginia Constitution and of course the Declaration of Independence were wildly famous in France at the time. He was also the US ambassador and living in Paris at the time of the revolution in 1789. There's no conclusive proof that he did indeed write it out, but the people who did write it visited him frequently at the time and his servants reported him busily writing letters and other pieces to key members of the revolution at the time.
So, either way, even if he didn't write it with his own hand, he played a large part in forming the basic ideas behind the French constitution.
I read it in this book:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/7 … _OU01_.gif
Jefferson just did a cut and paste.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
So your statement "Jefferson wrote the French constitution" is just daft, in fact they went directly to John Locke's writing for a lot of it.
Same as "The US constitution is the most important piece of document for personal liberty in the history of man kind." is pretty daft.
Same as "The US constitution is the most important piece of document for personal liberty in the history of man kind." is pretty daft.
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"As goes Kandahar, so goes Afghanistan."
You seem quite proud of your countryman Locke. One has to wonder why your homeland turned its back on the beautiful ideas that he expressed and replaced them with ugly conformity. While my country still upholds English philosophy, your own has tried its hardest to mimic Prussian rigidity.Dilbert_X wrote:
So your statement "Jefferson wrote the French constitution" is just daft, in fact they went directly to John Locke's writing for a lot of it.
Same as "The US constitution is the most important piece of document for personal liberty in the history of man kind." is pretty daft.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Have you even been to England?JohnG@lt wrote:
You seem quite proud of your countryman Locke. One has to wonder why your homeland turned its back on the beautiful ideas that he expressed and replaced them with ugly conformity. While my country still upholds English philosophy, your own has tried its hardest to mimic Prussian rigidity.
Fuck Israel