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2010-07-29 10:24:36
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5229|Cleveland, Ohio

-Sh1fty- wrote:

I think this is disgusting. The guy already had to live the rest of his life knowing he guarded a prison where they slaughtered people by the thousands. I think that's punishment enough for the old man.
right.  thats punishment enough.  so i guess if someone rapes an 8yr old thats punishment enough knowing he did it.  or maybe if someone takes out a family while driving drunk thats punishment enough knowing he killed them.  get. fucking. real.

Last edited by 11 Bravo (2010-07-29 10:25:00)

2010-07-29 10:28:24
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6688|NJ

11 Bravo wrote:

-Sh1fty- wrote:

I think this is disgusting. The guy already had to live the rest of his life knowing he guarded a prison where they slaughtered people by the thousands. I think that's punishment enough for the old man.
right.  thats punishment enough.  so i guess if someone rapes an 8yr old thats punishment enough knowing he did it.  or maybe if someone takes out a family while driving drunk thats punishment enough knowing he killed them.  get. fucking. real.
Roman Polanski? He has sexual relations with that under age girl who doesn't want to press charges anymore.
2010-07-29 10:29:46
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6462
oh, come on.

not the due course of justice... polanski? a) public celebrity, b) massive private out-of-court settlement, i.e. paid the girl off

not relevant to the OP at all.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-07-29 10:34:21
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6688|NJ

Uzique wrote:

oh, come on.

not the due course of justice... polanski? a) public celebrity, b) massive private out-of-court settlement, i.e. paid the girl off

not relevant to the OP at all.
Well since WW2 there have been plenty of Genocides, instead of putting resources towards people who had min to do with the actually creation of it, why don't we put the resources towards preventing current Genocides that have happened?

WW2 was rough for everyone, weren't there like 9 million people who ended up dead in those camps? Everyone in Europe is just as guilty in the attempted extermination of the Jews so why don't we prosecute everyone who loaded someone in a train, ratted someone out or worked with the Nazi government towards there goal?
2010-07-29 10:37:44
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6462
there's so much wrong with the above post that i cannot even be bothered to argue extensively. here's a list:

a) it's not a massive political commitment of resources to have a court-case. people are tried every day for much less, to the exact same cost.
b) im sure current genocides will be tried as war-crimes when cases are built and things are politically proven
b2) how exactly do you 'commit resources' to 'preventing genocide'? it's not the AIDS epidemic
c) "everyone in europe is guilty for the attempted extermination of the jews" -> read a fucking history book
d) read a fucking history book

Last edited by Uzique (2010-07-29 10:39:40)

libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-07-29 10:45:20
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6688|NJ

Uzique wrote:

there's so much wrong with the above post that i cannot even be bothered to argue extensively. here's a list:

a) it's not a massive political commitment of resources to have a court-case. people are tried every day for much less, to the exact same cost.
b) im sure current genocides will be tried as war-crimes when cases are built and things are politically proven
b2) how exactly do you 'commit resources' to 'preventing genocide'? it's not the AIDS epidemic
c) "everyone in europe is guilty for the attempted extermination of the jews" -> read a fucking history book
d) read a fucking history book
The cost to track and extradite a person is very expensive, and it's time consuming.

Yes we all know it was only the Nazi's who loaded up the Jews onto the trains and got them to the death camps and ghetto's, every other country who helped ship the Jews to Germany and surrounding area's are Scott free.  OK so what history book am I suppose to read that says the Jews weren't shipped out of other countries to Germany?
2010-07-29 10:48:27
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6462
so what, the cost to track and extradite a small-time coke dealer is very expensive. the cost of a court case's judge is very expensive. the cost to track down petty-thieves that crossed state-borders and are thus in some other official jurisdiction is time consuming, expensive and lots of hassle. legal cases are expensive. would you rather be spending the money on trying a shoplifter or trying a war-criminal involved in genocide?

and your second paragraph is batshit insane, sorry. you cannot hold every citizen of europe culpable and responsible for the fact that systems were in-place under nazi regimes to deport jews to concentration camps. a 15 year old in france is not responsible today for the forced-collusion of government officials under the vichy-regime. saying every person and every country in europe is responsible for the genocide is fucking crazy. fucking crazy.

i guess every american is responsible and blame-worthy for all the civilian deaths and massacres/genocides caused in south america, right? because, you know, executive-state decisions were made and politicians worked together to install CIA-puppet dictators.

Last edited by Uzique (2010-07-29 10:50:05)

libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-07-29 10:50:25
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6688|NJ
The first concentration camp was established in Dachau on March 23, 1933. It was then that more concentration camps were built, and as soon as Hitler came into power (2 months later) the Jews began getting shipped to them.

According to the census of June 16, 1933, the Jewish population of Germany, including the Saar region (which at that time was still under the administration of the League of Nations), was approximately 505,000 people out of a total population of 67 million, or somewhat less than 0.75 percent. That number represented a reduction from the estimated 523,000 Jews living in Germany in January 1933; the decrease was due in part to emigration following the Nazi takeover in January. (An estimated 37,000 Jews emigrated from Germany during 1933.)

But where does it end? At what point do we say, we got enough of the really bad guys and let it lie. Not sleeping dogs lie, but allow people to move foward and past. I'm sure that guy has horrible war stories like everyone else.

Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2010-07-29 10:52:52)

2010-07-29 10:52:15
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6462
right, figures.

now please explain how every citizen of every allied european power was implicated in that process?
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-07-29 10:56:01
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6688|NJ
Well the jews had to get into germany somehow?

Just saying, during a World War no one is innocent. I can not and will not be a judge on anyones actions during that time period and I think it's less then human to place judgement on someone trying to survive.

In the case of the Higher Ups and the ones passing the judgements and passing the orders, fire away but not at the lower people who did what they deemed to be in their best interest.
2010-07-29 10:57:36
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5229|Cleveland, Ohio

cpt.fass1 wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

-Sh1fty- wrote:

I think this is disgusting. The guy already had to live the rest of his life knowing he guarded a prison where they slaughtered people by the thousands. I think that's punishment enough for the old man.
right.  thats punishment enough.  so i guess if someone rapes an 8yr old thats punishment enough knowing he did it.  or maybe if someone takes out a family while driving drunk thats punishment enough knowing he killed them.  get. fucking. real.
Roman Polanski? He has sexual relations with that under age girl who doesn't want to press charges anymore.
the fuck?  are you on someting?
2010-07-29 10:58:18
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6462
im afraid you don't really understand the system of genocide in WW2 at all...

your suggestion that other governments 'helped' to ship jews to germany is ridiculous.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-07-29 11:05:18
cdailey2142
Flesh Peddler
+14|5055
So by this logic, if years down the road i is decided that holding people at guantanamo bay without trial was illegal do we hold the US Amry Guards accountable. Hell NO! So why should we hold this guy accountable? He was a soldier under orders doing his job during a time of war. It's time to let go of things that happened 70yrs ago.
2010-07-29 11:18:01
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6708

cdailey2142 wrote:

So by this logic, if years down the road i is decided that holding people at guantanamo bay without trial was illegal do we hold the US Amry Guards accountable. Hell NO! So why should we hold this guy accountable? He was a soldier under orders doing his job during a time of war. It's time to let go of things that happened 70yrs ago.
They don't post your average conscript to death camps. You have to be a real fucking nazi to get sent there. Comparing gitmo to a concentration camp is an utter disgrace. Gitmo is like fucking Havana Hilton compared to the shit the Nazi's did.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2010-07-29 11:24:40
cdailey2142
Flesh Peddler
+14|5055

Cybargs wrote:

cdailey2142 wrote:

So by this logic, if years down the road i is decided that holding people at guantanamo bay without trial was illegal do we hold the US Amry Guards accountable. Hell NO! So why should we hold this guy accountable? He was a soldier under orders doing his job during a time of war. It's time to let go of things that happened 70yrs ago.
They don't post your average conscript to death camps. You have to be a real fucking nazi to get sent there. Comparing gitmo to a concentration camp is an utter disgrace. Gitmo is like fucking Havana Hilton compared to the shit the Nazi's did.
Agreed, but all the guards that worked at the camps couldn't all have requested that type of post.
2010-07-29 11:27:45
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6462
as mentioned earlier-- working back in germany on desk-jobs/camp duty/occupation posts was the lesser of two evils at the time: the 'harsher' punishment for refusing duties in prison camps was to be sent to the eastern-front, i.e. to be sent to a cold, deserted, poorly-supplied shithole where death was pretty much inevitable.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-07-29 15:58:41
farmerfez
o wut?
+78|6522

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

It's real fuckin easy to defend, being a member of a political party is not illegal and following military orders does not make you legally responsible for what you are doing.
anyone who said he was wrong is stupid......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_Orders
2010-07-29 17:43:36
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6098|eXtreme to the maX

JohnG@lt wrote:

I think the real purpose is to spark terror in camp guards and nazis who may still be alive so that their lives are full of fear of Mosad coming into their home in the middle of the night one day and placing a black bag over their head.
Not too sure how that fits with the principles of justice, or is really any different from what the Nazis did.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2010-07-29 19:22:21
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5350|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

I think the real purpose is to spark terror in camp guards and nazis who may still be alive so that their lives are full of fear of Mosad coming into their home in the middle of the night one day and placing a black bag over their head.
Not too sure how that fits with the principles of justice, or is really any different from what the Nazis did.
Never said I agree with it. I happen to think they should stop the stupidity and just let them die in peace. It's not like an 88 year old is any threat to society.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-07-30 00:19:01
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5465|Ventura, California

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

I think the real purpose is to spark terror in camp guards and nazis who may still be alive so that their lives are full of fear of Mosad coming into their home in the middle of the night one day and placing a black bag over their head.
Not too sure how that fits with the principles of justice, or is really any different from what the Nazis did.
Never said I agree with it. I happen to think they should stop the stupidity and just let them die in peace. It's not like an 88 year old is any threat to society.
If he did murder do you think it should go unpunished though? I don't know if he killed anybody, I just wanted to know your view on that.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
2010-07-30 01:20:06
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6802|Nårvei

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

And there is nothing wrong with a trial. The only part of my original post that referenced you more than anyone else was where you said "pretty hard to defend, though.". He should be quite confident morally in his case.
Just being a guard at a nazi death is not criminal, he was wanted for conducting crimes against the prisoners at the camp ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2010-07-30 01:31:46
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6699|67.222.138.85

Varegg wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

And there is nothing wrong with a trial. The only part of my original post that referenced you more than anyone else was where you said "pretty hard to defend, though.". He should be quite confident morally in his case.
Just being a guard at a nazi death is not criminal, he was wanted for conducting crimes against the prisoners at the camp ...
He isn't being tried for having his job, he is being tried for doing his job.
2010-07-30 05:50:46
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6802|Nårvei

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

And there is nothing wrong with a trial. The only part of my original post that referenced you more than anyone else was where you said "pretty hard to defend, though.". He should be quite confident morally in his case.
Just being a guard at a nazi death is not criminal, he was wanted for conducting crimes against the prisoners at the camp ...
He isn't being tried for having his job, he is being tried for doing his job.
I know this ... he is actually being tried for maybe doing a tad more than his job ... if you have read some about the subject it would show that quite a few of the guards was quite sadistic towards the prisoners ... one of the few crimes they didn't commit a lot was rape ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2010-07-30 09:30:40
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6708

Varegg wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Varegg wrote:


Just being a guard at a nazi death is not criminal, he was wanted for conducting crimes against the prisoners at the camp ...
He isn't being tried for having his job, he is being tried for doing his job.
I know this ... he is actually being tried for maybe doing a tad more than his job ... if you have read some about the subject it would show that quite a few of the guards was quite sadistic towards the prisoners ... one of the few crimes they didn't commit a lot was rape ...
They didn't commit rape was simply because the Nazis viewed the jews as subhuman filth. To them it's like bestiality.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2010-07-30 09:45:17
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6699|67.222.138.85

Varegg wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Varegg wrote:


Just being a guard at a nazi death is not criminal, he was wanted for conducting crimes against the prisoners at the camp ...
He isn't being tried for having his job, he is being tried for doing his job.
I know this ... he is actually being tried for maybe doing a tad more than his job ... if you have read some about the subject it would show that quite a few of the guards was quite sadistic towards the prisoners ... one of the few crimes they didn't commit a lot was rape ...
Where does it say any of that?

 

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