The Real Task Force 141- US Task Force 373

2010-07-26 13:45:40

#1

SonderKommando: Eat, Lift, Grow, Repeat....; +564|6944|The darkside of Denver

This unit is a esoteric group of enigmatic soldiers operating out of three bases in Afghanistan. They are tasked with neutralizing targets on the jpel list (targets of interest for internment or straight up execution). However, they dont seem to be as graceful and cunning as TF141. Seems like an awful mess of friendly fire, civ casualties, with some successes here and there. Pretty interesting read.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju … an-taliban

2010-07-26 13:53:42

#2

pace51: Boom?; +194|5458|Markham, Ontario

SonderKommando wrote:
This unit is a esoteric group of enigmatic soldiers operating out of three bases in Afghanistan. They are tasked with neutralizing targets on the jpel list (targets of interest for internment or straight up execution). However, they dont seem to be as graceful and cunning as TF141. Seems like an awful mess of friendly fire, civ casualties, with some successes here and there. Pretty interesting read.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju … an-taliban

Anyone fighting in the middle east is going to run into civilian casualties one way or another, I've heard people say that they use civilians as shields down there.

2010-07-26 13:55:23

#3

SonderKommando: Eat, Lift, Grow, Repeat....; +564|6944|The darkside of Denver

pace51 wrote:
SonderKommando wrote:
This unit is a esoteric group of enigmatic soldiers operating out of three bases in Afghanistan. They are tasked with neutralizing targets on the jpel list (targets of interest for internment or straight up execution). However, they dont seem to be as graceful and cunning as TF141. Seems like an awful mess of friendly fire, civ casualties, with some successes here and there. Pretty interesting read.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju … an-taliban
Anyone fighting in the middle east is going to run into civilian casualties one way or another, I've heard people say that they use civilians as shields down there.

yea I've heard that too. But if you read this, they have missions where they seriously fuck some shit up and all they get are dead civs and donkeys. No enemy KIA, how can you be kept as a shield with no one there to make you stay? Although its most likely bad intelligence and not the operators themselves responsible. Did you read about them calling in teh AC130 on the Afghani Police Force, poor bastards.

Last edited by SonderKommando (2010-07-26 13:55:44)

2010-07-26 14:09:48

#4

pace51: Boom?; +194|5458|Markham, Ontario

SonderKommando wrote:
pace51 wrote:
SonderKommando wrote:
This unit is a esoteric group of enigmatic soldiers operating out of three bases in Afghanistan. They are tasked with neutralizing targets on the jpel list (targets of interest for internment or straight up execution). However, they dont seem to be as graceful and cunning as TF141. Seems like an awful mess of friendly fire, civ casualties, with some successes here and there. Pretty interesting read.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju … an-taliban
Anyone fighting in the middle east is going to run into civilian casualties one way or another, I've heard people say that they use civilians as shields down there.
yea I've heard that too. But if you read this, they have missions where they seriously fuck some shit up and all they get are dead civs and donkeys. No enemy KIA, how can you be kept as a shield with no one there to make you stay? Although its most likely bad intelligence and not the operators themselves responsible. Did you read about them calling in teh AC130 on the Afghani Police Force, poor bastards.

Oh my gosh. They called in an ac-130 on police officers? That is a mess-up. Agreed, it's hard to keep people as a shield without actually giving them incentive to be a shield. Maybe their families were threatened or something.

2010-07-26 14:11:42

#5

SonderKommando: Eat, Lift, Grow, Repeat....; +564|6944|The darkside of Denver

pace51 wrote:
SonderKommando wrote:
pace51 wrote:

Anyone fighting in the middle east is going to run into civilian casualties one way or another, I've heard people say that they use civilians as shields down there.
yea I've heard that too. But if you read this, they have missions where they seriously fuck some shit up and all they get are dead civs and donkeys. No enemy KIA, how can you be kept as a shield with no one there to make you stay? Although its most likely bad intelligence and not the operators themselves responsible. Did you read about them calling in teh AC130 on the Afghani Police Force, poor bastards.
Oh my gosh. They called in an ac-130 on police officers? That is a mess-up. Agreed, it's hard to keep people as a shield without actually giving them incentive to be a shield. Maybe their families were threatened or something.

Yeah, it was at night and they didnt know, but bad intelligence again.

2010-07-26 14:12:31

#6

rdx-fx: ...; +955|6876

If they dropped their AK-47 when they died, and were not wearing their "I ♥ Osama" t-shirt at the time, there's a decent chance that Al Jazeera is going to count them as a civilian casualty.

Though there is a non-zero chance that there's a group that's operating with too many trigger pullers, and not enough intel geeks or adult supervision.

2010-07-26 14:18:28

#7

SonderKommando: Eat, Lift, Grow, Repeat....; +564|6944|The darkside of Denver

Personally I think the use of these tactics are a little disingenuous of the whole American ideology. The fact that they are operating on poor intelligence makes them more visible and further detracts from our reputation as a nation on a global scale. Opinions aside, I just thought it was interesting that something like this is openly being discussed these days. Ask five years ago if we have black op assassins and you'd be called a nut.

2010-07-26 14:23:40

#8

loubot: O' HAL naw!; +470|6863|Columbus, OH

pace51 wrote:
Oh my gosh. They called in an ac-130 on police officers? That is a mess-up..

Maybe the task force don't like their position given away.

2010-07-26 14:24:07

#9

rdx-fx: ...; +955|6876

Runs counter to the whole COIN concept, really.

Only way to do it right is to combine frighteningly accurate intel, with overwhelming force.

Otherwise, we start looking like the other guys, at worst. Or like the Russians, at best.

2010-07-26 14:27:28

#10

SonderKommando: Eat, Lift, Grow, Repeat....; +564|6944|The darkside of Denver

rdx-fx wrote:
Runs counter to the whole COIN concept, really.

Only way to do it right is to combine frighteningly accurate intel, with overwhelming force.

Otherwise, we start looking like the other guys, at worst. Or like the Russians, at best.

Partially the point I was making. But I just find the whole assassination/internment doctrine to be the antithesis of everything American. We shouldn't sacrifice the moral high ground simply because we are afraid of a shadowy group of scary Muslims.

2010-07-26 15:03:48

#11

jord: Member; +2,382|6963|The North, beyond the wall.

Well if moral high ground saves lives...

2010-07-26 15:10:50

#12

SonderKommando: Eat, Lift, Grow, Repeat....; +564|6944|The darkside of Denver

jord wrote:
Well if moral high ground saves lives...

Number of Lives lost since ME campaigns began > Lives lost to Al Qaeda prior

2010-07-26 15:20:08

#13

jord: Member; +2,382|6963|The North, beyond the wall.

Mmm I'm not really a morals man myself. I think its naive to think every countrys intelligence services haven't sanctioned killings. No country or government have morals or principles.

2010-07-26 15:22:49

#14

SonderKommando: Eat, Lift, Grow, Repeat....; +564|6944|The darkside of Denver

jord wrote:
Mmm I'm not really a morals man myself. I think its naive to think every countrys intelligence services haven't sanctioned killings. No country or government have morals or principles.

I was just saying its contradictory to the justice system we have established and operated on for some 200 years. Yes, you're right, these killings are probably nothing new but with the wikileaks documents that just came out and the mishaps of poor intelligence this task force has become highly visible. Therefore further compromising our moral standing even further within the international community.

2010-07-26 15:22:52

#15

M.O.A.B: 'Light 'em up!'; +1,220|6508|Escea

Its a bit like Project Phoenix from Vietnam.

2010-07-26 15:45:16

#16

liquidat0r: wtf.; +2,223|6912|UK

Deemed to be "Serious Talk". Moved. Hopefully there are no objections.

2010-07-26 16:16:28

#17

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6696|'Murka

Direct action is a key part of COIN strategy. Its application, however, is what makes COIN succeed or fail. I think if you read the article carefully, you'll see that application of force is graduated and used with refined intel much more so later in the conflict (ie, as COIN doctrine is refined) than earlier (ref AC-130 mission in 2007 without PID of target).

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-07-27 03:05:37

#18

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|6906|London, England

It's not really secret behind enemy lines shit if most of the country is already under control anyway. If anything it's the Taliban who are the shadowy behind enemy lines operators and all that.

2010-07-27 05:41:19

#19

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

At some point they'll realise assassinating individuals achieves nothing, and the collateral casualties counter-productive.

Doesn't really seem to be working either.

Makes for good TV though.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-07-27 05:45:43)

Fuck Israel

2010-07-27 05:44:10

#20

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6696|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
At some point they'll realise assassinating individuals achieves nothing, and the collateral casualties counter-productive.

Makes for good TV though.

Actually, taking out the right individuals works wonders in COIN, particularly if those individuals are doing bad things to the local populace. They just have to do it with very solid intel to minimize/eliminate collateral damage in the process.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-07-27 05:46:43

#21

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
At some point they'll realise assassinating individuals achieves nothing, and the collateral casualties counter-productive.

Makes for good TV though.
Actually, taking out the right individuals works wonders in COIN, particularly if those individuals are doing bad things to the local populace. They just have to do it with very solid intel to minimize/eliminate collateral damage in the process.

Maybe they should try that.

Fuck Israel

2010-07-27 06:01:09

#22

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6696|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
At some point they'll realise assassinating individuals achieves nothing, and the collateral casualties counter-productive.

Makes for good TV though.
Actually, taking out the right individuals works wonders in COIN, particularly if those individuals are doing bad things to the local populace. They just have to do it with very solid intel to minimize/eliminate collateral damage in the process.
Maybe they should try that.

As I pointed out, if you look at the article, that's what they've shifted to. The article points to one or two instances of collateral damage a few years ago. These guys run hundreds of missions a year. They've modified their approach based on the new ROE, as well--the ROE apply to them, just as they apply to the "regular" troops. These guys just have specialized training and tactics and go after high value targets...and generally get them.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-07-27 06:47:54

#23

Shahter: Zee Ruskie; +295|7060|Moscow, Russia

war never changes (c). there's no way to fight it and never get dirty.

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

2010-07-27 13:42:26

#24

pace51: Boom?; +194|5458|Markham, Ontario

SonderKommando wrote:
rdx-fx wrote:
Runs counter to the whole COIN concept, really.

Only way to do it right is to combine frighteningly accurate intel, with overwhelming force.

Otherwise, we start looking like the other guys, at worst. Or like the Russians, at best.
Partially the point I was making. But I just find the whole assassination/internment doctrine to be the antithesis of everything American. We shouldn't sacrifice the moral high ground simply because we are afraid of a shadowy group of scary Muslims.

Exactly. Show the muslims why they should fear technology, and why they are the morrally wrong people. Not the "infidelic west"

2010-07-27 22:12:43

#25

Beduin: Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid; +510|6035|شمال

what?

الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic

BF2S Forums The Real Task Force 141- US Task Force 373

SonderKommando wrote:

pace51 wrote:

SonderKommando wrote:

SonderKommando wrote:

pace51 wrote:

SonderKommando wrote:

pace51 wrote:

SonderKommando wrote:

pace51 wrote:

pace51 wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

jord wrote:

jord wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

SonderKommando wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

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