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2010-07-01 11:12:29
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6730
hey teds how is the muslim-race war waging up north?

down here in london it is hell, literal hell. there's been a ceasefire for the past few days and the rats have gone underground, to refuel and resupply no doubt ready for their next nightmarish assault upon our fine edifices. they are besieging all that is good and honest and white and christian about our fine society, that city on a hill.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-07-01 11:14:52
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6760|so randum

Uzique wrote:

hey teds how is the muslim-race war waging up north?

down here in london it is hell, literal hell. there's been a ceasefire for the past few days and the rats have gone underground, to refuel and resupply no doubt ready for their next nightmarish assault upon our fine edifices. they are besieging all that is good and honest and white and christian about our fine society, that city on a hill.
totally overrun us. we've been so swamped in curry (it is muslims who make curry yeh?) that we're all fat and verging on heart attacks. if you hear from me no-more, the last great bastian of Christian light in the North (manchester) has been extinquished.

Signing out, FatherTed
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2010-07-01 12:15:20
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6911|USA

FatherTed wrote:

if i had the effort, im sure after reading the bible through and consulting a few mentals i could assemble a website around christianity much like thereligionofpeace.com. why? all (or most )of the major religions around the world can be painted in a bad light. their key books have been rewritten and rewritten throughout time to suit whoever was in favour at the time, and as such they are terribly open to interpratation. you don't have to disprove anything in your sources, it's likely given enough hate in your mind and enough time with muslim articles you could pull the incredibly radical conclusion that website offers. it's sad you don't see this.

ed- (post might read slightly fractured, posting from within EvE
You all speak as if this is the only source. Hate to break it to you, it ain't. You can not swing a dead cat without hitting an article, a website, a news report, an author, A MUSLIM an Islamic leader, that does not spell these things out for you.

For you to dismiss Islamic violence as insignificant, and how Islam is really tolerant and accepting is a state of denial that is hard to comprehend.

Several pages now, and you have not pulled one piece of this biased and false information and debunked it. Oh wait I forgot, your superior intellect excuses you from this. Never mind.

Muslims exist in a non-Muslim country in spite of Islam not with support from Islam.

Last edited by lowing (2010-07-01 12:16:27)

2010-07-01 12:20:45
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6730
no... im pretty sure there's a huge islamic network of mosques, preachers and imams here. even properly-formed officially recognized muslim bodies, too. there's a senior figurehead for them in our new, coalition cabinet. try again lowing, try again.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-07-01 12:29:07
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6911|USA

Uzique wrote:

no... im pretty sure there's a huge islamic network of mosques, preachers and imams here. even properly-formed officially recognized muslim bodies, too. there's a senior figurehead for them in our new, coalition cabinet. try again lowing, try again.
Do tell.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2675223.stm

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= … ectoldpage

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran … rnment.htm <-----------address this with something more than a dismissal please.

Last edited by lowing (2010-07-01 12:34:23)

2010-07-01 12:39:05
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6730
abu hamza is literally the ONLY real major example of a sheikh that went barmy and started preaching hate... and he was dealt with and ALSO, most IMPORTANTLY condemned by the rest of the muslim community. he was indoctrinating young, disaffected youths (disaffected regardless of their religion, it was a socio-economic form of poverty and a lack of opportunity) and was turning them into militant muslims, just the same way you get camps in war-torn and unstable parts of the world training militant extremists, also. nothing new-- and nothing UNIQUE to islam. christian white-power groups rise out of impoverished american backgrounds, too, you know.

i'm honestly not going to engage with that website because it's ludicrous. it's ridiculous, it really is. if i started arguing for a controversial (and fundamentally flawed cause), say, JEWS DID 9/11, and then started linking a bunch of polemic, quasi-conspiratorial websites and challenging you to 'PROVE ME WRONG - UNTIL THEN, IT'S RIGHT'... then you'd be just as exasperated. the onus isn't on US to PROVE anything. the onus is on YOU as the accuser, to make a satisfactory case and present a valid and credible body of evidence; innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent. that's the way we do things in western democracies, right?
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-07-01 13:25:01
Beduin
Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid
+510|6010|شمال

lowing wrote:

The point was and still is, Islam is far more violent than any other. Even provided links to show this.
Also this. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran … rnment.htm
Question: To what extent do Muslims have to obey the governments of the non-Muslim countries in which they live? To what extent can they disobey or resist those governments?

Answered by Sheikh Salman al-Oadah

The Muslims living a non-Muslim country, even if they entered that country by means of forged documents, are considered to be living in their adopted country under a covenant. They must, therefore, comply with the laws of their country of residence without, at the same time, disobeying Islamic Law.

Allah says: “Oh you who believe! Fulfill (your) obligations.” [Sûrah al-Mâ’idah: 1]

He also says: “And fulfill (every) covenant. Verily! The covenant will be questioned about.” [Sûrah al-Isrâ': 34]

He says: “And fulfill the Covenant to Allah when you have covenanted, and break not the oaths after you have confirmed them.” [Sûrah al-Nahl: 91]

A Muslim is not to break or violate oaths or promises. He will not be a true faithful Muslim if he does so. Allah Said: “It is not the case that every time they make a covenant, some party among them throws it aside. Nay! The truth is most of them believe not.” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 100]

Among the characteristics of a hypocrite is that he: “…acts treacherously toward covenants (pledges), and when entrusted he betrays.”

Scholars have stated that those who enter non-Muslim countries have to adhere to their respective laws and regulations even if they entered those countries illegally, and they have no excuse for breaking those laws, since they were entrusted to abide by those laws upon entry into those countries.

The eminent Hanafî jurist, Mohammad b. Hasan Al-Shaybânî writes [Biographies (2/6)]:
If it happens that a company of Muslims pass through the enemy’s front lines by deceptively pretended to be messengers of the Muslim’s Caliph carrying official documents – or if they were just allowed to pass through the enemy lines – they are not allowed to engage in any hostilities with the enemy troops. Neither are they entitled to seize any of their money or properties as long as they are in their area of authority. This also applies in case of being truly trusted by the other party.
Accordingly, we conclude the following:

Muslims living in non-Muslim countries have to comply with laws and regulations of the country they have been entrusted though valid visas to enter. At the same time, they have to avoid whatever contradicts Islamic teachings. In case they are obliged by law to uphold something contrary to Islamic teachings, they have to adhere to the minimum that the law requires of them.

One of the best approaches for a Muslim living in these countries is patience. As long as he agrees to live in a non-Muslim country, he is never to rebel against the people living in his choice of residence, even it seems to hard for him to endure.
Read more: http://www.muslimaccess.com/
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
2010-07-01 13:43:35
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6911|USA

Uzique wrote:

abu hamza is literally the ONLY real major example of a sheikh that went barmy and started preaching hate... and he was dealt with and ALSO, most IMPORTANTLY condemned by the rest of the muslim community. he was indoctrinating young, disaffected youths (disaffected regardless of their religion, it was a socio-economic form of poverty and a lack of opportunity) and was turning them into militant muslims, just the same way you get camps in war-torn and unstable parts of the world training militant extremists, also. nothing new-- and nothing UNIQUE to islam. christian white-power groups rise out of impoverished american backgrounds, too, you know.

i'm honestly not going to engage with that website because it's ludicrous. it's ridiculous, it really is. if i started arguing for a controversial (and fundamentally flawed cause), say, JEWS DID 9/11, and then started linking a bunch of polemic, quasi-conspiratorial websites and challenging you to 'PROVE ME WRONG - UNTIL THEN, IT'S RIGHT'... then you'd be just as exasperated. the onus isn't on US to PROVE anything. the onus is on YOU as the accuser, to make a satisfactory case and present a valid and credible body of evidence; innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent. that's the way we do things in western democracies, right?
lol oh I see, ya mean besides him right? ok..


Well if you are not going to address points made then what are you doing here, other than bash the source? Cause you sure will not touch any information provided... Again I guess your superior intellect excuses you from it....Good stuff, and highly convenient.

That site, especially that site, does not bash Muslims. It provides facts....address the facts if you can.

you sure he is the only problem?
http://www.secularism.org.uk/londonmega … rover.html


http://www.eurotopics.net/en/archiv/mag … n_2007_09/  <----speaks of concerns over extremism...Sounds like it goes a lot deeper than just me and my "paranoia" doesn't it?

Last edited by lowing (2010-07-01 14:35:57)

2010-07-01 14:27:08
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6911|USA

Beduin wrote:

lowing wrote:

The point was and still is, Islam is far more violent than any other. Even provided links to show this.
Also this. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran … rnment.htm
Question: To what extent do Muslims have to obey the governments of the non-Muslim countries in which they live? To what extent can they disobey or resist those governments?

Answered by Sheikh Salman al-Oadah

The Muslims living a non-Muslim country, even if they entered that country by means of forged documents, are considered to be living in their adopted country under a covenant. They must, therefore, comply with the laws of their country of residence without, at the same time, disobeying Islamic Law.

Allah says: “Oh you who believe! Fulfill (your) obligations.” [Sûrah al-Mâ’idah: 1]

He also says: “And fulfill (every) covenant. Verily! The covenant will be questioned about.” [Sûrah al-Isrâ': 34]

He says: “And fulfill the Covenant to Allah when you have covenanted, and break not the oaths after you have confirmed them.” [Sûrah al-Nahl: 91]

A Muslim is not to break or violate oaths or promises. He will not be a true faithful Muslim if he does so. Allah Said: “It is not the case that every time they make a covenant, some party among them throws it aside. Nay! The truth is most of them believe not.” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 100]

Among the characteristics of a hypocrite is that he: “…acts treacherously toward covenants (pledges), and when entrusted he betrays.”

Scholars have stated that those who enter non-Muslim countries have to adhere to their respective laws and regulations even if they entered those countries illegally, and they have no excuse for breaking those laws, since they were entrusted to abide by those laws upon entry into those countries.

The eminent Hanafî jurist, Mohammad b. Hasan Al-Shaybânî writes [Biographies (2/6)]:
If it happens that a company of Muslims pass through the enemy’s front lines by deceptively pretended to be messengers of the Muslim’s Caliph carrying official documents – or if they were just allowed to pass through the enemy lines – they are not allowed to engage in any hostilities with the enemy troops. Neither are they entitled to seize any of their money or properties as long as they are in their area of authority. This also applies in case of being truly trusted by the other party.
Accordingly, we conclude the following:

Muslims living in non-Muslim countries have to comply with laws and regulations of the country they have been entrusted though valid visas to enter. At the same time, they have to avoid whatever contradicts Islamic teachings. In case they are obliged by law to uphold something contrary to Islamic teachings, they have to adhere to the minimum that the law requires of them.

One of the best approaches for a Muslim living in these countries is patience. As long as he agrees to live in a non-Muslim country, he is never to rebel against the people living in his choice of residence, even it seems to hard for him to endure.
Read more: http://www.muslimaccess.com/
ummmmmmmmmmm lol, this speaks of "enemy lines" and "treachery", "deception" and "seizing money" etc.............You do realize this is supposed be a fucking RELIGION right??
2010-07-01 15:26:26
Beduin
Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid
+510|6010|شمال

lowing wrote:

ummmmmmmmmmm lol, this speaks of "enemy lines" and "treachery", "deception" and "seizing money" etc.............You do realize this is supposed be a fucking RELIGION right??
During his life, Muhammad gave various injunctions to his forces and adopted practices toward the conduct of war. The most important of these were summarized by Muhammad's companion and first Caliph, Abu Bakr, in the form of ten rules for the Muslim army:[7]
“    O people! I charge you with ten rules; learn them well!
Do no betray or misappropriate any part of the booty; do not practice treachery or mutilation. Do not kill a young child, an old man, or a woman. Do not uproot or burn palms or cut down fruitful trees. Do not slaughter a sheep or a cow or a camel, except for food. You will meet people who have set themselves apart in hermitages; leave them to accomplish the purpose for which they have done this. You will come upon people who will bring you dishes with various kinds of foods. If you partake of them, pronounce God's name over what you eat. You will meet people who have shaved the crown of their heads, leaving a band of hair around it (monks). Go in Gods name, and may God protect you from sword and pestilence.[8]
”
These injunctions were honored by the second Caliph, Umar, during whose reign (634–644) important Muslim conquests took place.[9] During the Battle of Siffin, the Caliph Ali stated that Islam does not permit Muslims to stop the supply of water to their enemy.[10] In addition to the Rashidun Caliphs, hadiths attributed to Muhammad himself suggest that he stated the following regarding the Muslim conquest of Egypt that eventually took place after his death:[11]
“    You are going to enter Egypt a land where qirat (money unit) is used. Be extremely good to them as they have with us close ties and marriage relationships. When you enter Egypt after my death, recruit many soldiers from among the Egyptians because they are the best soldiers on earth, as they and their wives are permanently on duty until the Day of Resurrection. Be good to the Copts of Egypt; you shall take them over, but they shall be your instrument and help. Be Righteous to God about the Copts.
...
According to professor Sayyid Dāmād, no explicit injunctions against use of chemical or biological warfare were developed by medieval Islamic jurists as these threats were not recognized. However, Khalil al-Maliki's Book on jihad states that combatants are forbidden to employ weapons that cause unnecessary injury to the enemy, except under dire circumstances. The book, as an example, forbids the use of poisonous spears, since it inflicts unnecessary pain.[31]

Islamic military jurisprudence
Religion Of Peace and Justice, lowing

Last edited by Beduin (2010-07-01 15:28:52)

الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
2010-07-01 19:47:14
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5438|Sydney
Lowing got totally owned in this thread. Well worth the reading, thanks guys.
2010-07-01 20:40:48
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6911|USA

Jaekus wrote:

Lowing got totally owned in this thread. Well worth the reading, thanks guys.
ya think? by what? Being told I was wrong and nothing more? I post sources full of information and it is all dismissed or denied, NEVER addressed. It is time you all come to grips with reality, Islam has a stigma attached to it, and it is not because it simply has a bad publicity agent.

Besides, I do not put much worth on an person that uses "totally owned". Grow up slick

Last edited by lowing (2010-07-01 20:44:19)

2010-07-02 00:21:54
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5438|Sydney
I don't put much worth in someone who uses a biased website to somehow validate their argument. But no matter how many people tell you this, you still can't understand the simplicity of what's being told. An 8th grader could easily comprehend what's going on here. You however, seem oblivious.

People have addressed all you are saying and more, you're blinkered or possibly blind. Can't reason with someone who has their head in the sand. Just saying how it is.
2010-07-02 01:07:01
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7070|Nårvei

Best Islam thread ever
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2010-07-02 05:33:28
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5438|Sydney

Varegg wrote:

Best Islam thread ever
2010-07-02 05:42:38
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6934|Canberra, AUS
that's not saying much
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2010-07-02 05:46:02
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6911|USA

Jaekus wrote:

I don't put much worth in someone who uses a biased website to somehow validate their argument. But no matter how many people tell you this, you still can't understand the simplicity of what's being told. An 8th grader could easily comprehend what's going on here. You however, seem oblivious.

People have addressed all you are saying and more, you're blinkered or possibly blind. Can't reason with someone who has their head in the sand. Just saying how it is.
You keep claiming the site is biased, and none of you have ever addressed any of the information in that site. I have asked time and time again for anny of you to attack the information. Call it lies and show why it is lies. You do not do this. The most any of you have done is claim intellectual superiority and refuse to discuss the information. Sorry, that is not an argument. . Come out with information that shows Islam is not violent in in its teachings or intolerant in its laws. You all do this shit all the time. This is a debate thread,  debate.

Telling me I am wrong is not addressing anything. Telling me you have a buddy that is Muslim and he is a great guy does not show Islam as tolerant and non-violent. Beating your chest claiming how superior you are does not do anything in showing how peaceful Islam is. Claiming I am just stupid and not worth the bother, does not prove the information I cited as wrong.

Sorry, you need to do better than that, I have asked for an argument for several pages now, and absolutely none of you have provided anything other than self proclaimed victory because I am not worthy of your attentions...Gunna have to do better than that.

Address the information, show how it is wrong. You claim bias, but it is easy to claim bias and dismiss any POV that is not yours. This forum is full of that tactic. It is the cheap way out of any argument.

If you have not noticed, as unpopular as my POV is on most topics, I stay and argue my point. I have never claimed bias and dismissed anyone elses argument. How about you give it a shot for once?

Last edited by lowing (2010-07-02 05:48:55)

2010-07-02 05:53:09
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7070|Nårvei

Yeah ... that's it lowing, even when clearly proven wrong on your POV you still argue for it ... that's why nobody bothers anymore ... atleast I'm tired of constantly repeating myself towards you when it comes to Islam ...

And again you twist what people write so it fits your paranoid agenda ...

I said: I've used hundred of sources including personally knowing Muslims to come to my POV.

You read: Varegg drinks beer with 1 Muslim and think he knows everything about Islam.

This is why it is hopeless to discuss these things with you lowing ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2010-07-02 06:00:54
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6911|USA

Varegg wrote:

Yeah ... that's it lowing, even when clearly proven wrong on your POV you still argue for it ... that's why nobody bothers anymore ... atleast I'm tired of constantly repeating myself towards you when it comes to Islam ...

And again you twist what people write so it fits your paranoid agenda ...

I said: I've used hundred of sources including personally knowing Muslims to come to my POV.

You read: Varegg drinks beer with 1 Muslim and think he knows everything about Islam.

This is why it is hopeless to discuss these things with you lowing ...
THought I just addressed this  "even when clearly proven wrong"........You haven't proven shit and you have not used a hundred sources. CLAIMING I AM WRONG IS NOT PROOF VAREGG!!.

Address the information provided.
2010-07-02 06:42:16
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7070|Nårvei

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Yeah ... that's it lowing, even when clearly proven wrong on your POV you still argue for it ... that's why nobody bothers anymore ... atleast I'm tired of constantly repeating myself towards you when it comes to Islam ...

And again you twist what people write so it fits your paranoid agenda ...

I said: I've used hundred of sources including personally knowing Muslims to come to my POV.

You read: Varegg drinks beer with 1 Muslim and think he knows everything about Islam.

This is why it is hopeless to discuss these things with you lowing ...
THought I just addressed this  "even when clearly proven wrong"........You haven't proven shit and you have not used a hundred sources. CLAIMING I AM WRONG IS NOT PROOF VAREGG!!.

Address the information provided.
We've had this discussion so many times now lowing, it's the same in every thread about Islam ... so no I can't be bothered anymore ... and if you didn't notice I didn't claim to have used a hundred sources to prove you wrong in this thread, infact I have never used hundred sources in any thread ... again your reading skills is fooling your mind ... I said I have used hundred of sources to form my own POV.

If you can't read and analyze those few words I can understand how huge your problem is to understand the content of the websites you use as sources ... if you don't see how biased www.thereligionofpeace.com is there is no reasonable way to discuss the issue with you either ... you have a very extreme opinion of the phrase extremists ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2010-07-02 06:50:12
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6911|USA

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Yeah ... that's it lowing, even when clearly proven wrong on your POV you still argue for it ... that's why nobody bothers anymore ... atleast I'm tired of constantly repeating myself towards you when it comes to Islam ...

And again you twist what people write so it fits your paranoid agenda ...

I said: I've used hundred of sources including personally knowing Muslims to come to my POV.

You read: Varegg drinks beer with 1 Muslim and think he knows everything about Islam.

This is why it is hopeless to discuss these things with you lowing ...
THought I just addressed this  "even when clearly proven wrong"........You haven't proven shit and you have not used a hundred sources. CLAIMING I AM WRONG IS NOT PROOF VAREGG!!.

Address the information provided.
We've had this discussion so many times now lowing, it's the same in every thread about Islam ... so no I can't be bothered anymore ... and if you didn't notice I didn't claim to have used a hundred sources to prove you wrong in this thread, infact I have never used hundred sources in any thread ... again your reading skills is fooling your mind ... I said I have used hundred of sources to form my own POV.

If you can't read and analyze those few words I can understand how huge your problem is to understand the content of the websites you use as sources ... if you don't see how biased www.thereligionofpeace.com is there is no reasonable way to discuss the issue with you either ... you have a very extreme opinion of the phrase extremists ...
lol ok, so bottom line you refuse to address the information provided, got it. You are dismissed. Anyone else want to actually address the information?

By the way Varegg, you can stop pretending that religionofpeace.com is the only source making claims and providing fact exposing Islam.
Islam and violence walk hand in hand.

Islam does not recognize separation between church and state therefore is not truely compatable with western society.
2010-07-02 06:52:01
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6366|eXtreme to the maX
Islam does not recognize separation between church and state therefore is not truely compatable with western society.
Nor do christianity or judaism, so whats your point?
Fuck Israel
2010-07-02 06:54:07
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6981|Sydney, Australia

lowing wrote:

Islam and violence walk hand in hand.
Yet I'm sure you wouldn't accept anything this source presents - http://www.evilbible.com/
2010-07-02 06:55:40
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7070|Nårvei

lowing wrote:

Islam does not recognize separation between church and state therefore is not truely compatable with western society.
So is that wrong? ... it's not like the western society is the only correct blueprint as to how a society should be ... hell, even Norway haven't separated state and church ... so how about that? ... now there you have fundamentalist Norway in a nutshell
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2010-07-02 06:57:22
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6366|eXtreme to the maX
You know, most western societies have only achieved democracy by stomping on the church and barring it from govt.
The Christians would like to be in govt just as much as the muslims.
Fuck Israel

Topic closed

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