Agreed. I think Mexico could learn something from India. They were a dirt poor country, but they finally took a stand and started a massive education push. That country's economy is growing hand over fist, and as a result the number of high tech, engineering, and business professional oriented jobs that are going there are just getting larger and larger.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
This is quality. A post from someone on the other side. I would have to agree with about 99% of this, and never realized the total impact of money sent back to Mexico from workers legal and illegal.IronFerret wrote:
Well imigration its one of the more fustrating issues for mexico.. we are loosing lots of manpower.. sadly most of the lower clases think that invest in imigration is better than invest in education. so they waste their time, money, efort and a entire life working as a second class citizen in the US, and i dont said "second class" because of racism i say it beacuse they have no studies et all.. most of them will be lower clas workers their whole life. (sadly if they dont go to the US to be 2nd class citizen they stay here to be 2nd class citizen) you have to understand that mexico and latinoamerica have the most unbalance income in the whole word. the 4th (acording to forbes magazine) richest man in the world is Mexican but there are other 40 millions of poor mexicans.
Our lazzy dumbass goverment doesnt do nothing becasue they need the money illegal workers send to mexico to keep economy going. but thats money that should and need to be done in mexico. So they take the easy way "defend our brothers in the US" because they dont have a clear economic program.
I dont think this is a racims issue.. i been a lot in the US. never felt much more racism... i dont feel much more racism than France, Spain, Italy or UK places i have been. Shure there are some racist people but hey! no contry is excent for jerks isnt?
In the other hand what i dont like about this law.. its what i dont like about the whole BUsh administration.. and its obsecion with securty... i follow the US news close and i do think its just a move to gain power trough fear. Also isnt really weird that a law like this is put on the mainstream just when the IRak war is going long enough.
Mexico and US is the most important border in the whole word, it has the bigest exchange of people and merchandise (legal and non legal). its something thats good for both, as i do think that this cant keep going in a ilegal way im not so shure that they are making a law good enough to solve this problem, not even for your own gain.
Future internation economy isnt gonna be rule by superpowers (like now), its gonna be ruled by super regions (european union, asia-rusia, south america and mostly north america), so this kind of laws are a contradiction to a world-economic model US and super powers has been selling to the world trough globalization, like it or not we are partners and if we dont pull it together Asia and other regions in the world are gonna keep growing meanwhile US spend money in big bother security programs.
It's growing because we are outsourcing there. Call a computer helpdesk sometime, see who answers.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Agreed. I think Mexico could learn something from India. They were a dirt poor country, but they finally took a stand and started a massive education push. That country's economy is growing hand over fist, and as a result the number of high tech, engineering, and business professional oriented jobs that are going there are just getting larger and larger.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
This is quality. A post from someone on the other side. I would have to agree with about 99% of this, and never realized the total impact of money sent back to Mexico from workers legal and illegal.IronFerret wrote:
Well imigration its one of the more fustrating issues for mexico.. we are loosing lots of manpower.. sadly most of the lower clases think that invest in imigration is better than invest in education. so they waste their time, money, efort and a entire life working as a second class citizen in the US, and i dont said "second class" because of racism i say it beacuse they have no studies et all.. most of them will be lower clas workers their whole life. (sadly if they dont go to the US to be 2nd class citizen they stay here to be 2nd class citizen) you have to understand that mexico and latinoamerica have the most unbalance income in the whole word. the 4th (acording to forbes magazine) richest man in the world is Mexican but there are other 40 millions of poor mexicans.
Our lazzy dumbass goverment doesnt do nothing becasue they need the money illegal workers send to mexico to keep economy going. but thats money that should and need to be done in mexico. So they take the easy way "defend our brothers in the US" because they dont have a clear economic program.
I dont think this is a racims issue.. i been a lot in the US. never felt much more racism... i dont feel much more racism than France, Spain, Italy or UK places i have been. Shure there are some racist people but hey! no contry is excent for jerks isnt?
In the other hand what i dont like about this law.. its what i dont like about the whole BUsh administration.. and its obsecion with securty... i follow the US news close and i do think its just a move to gain power trough fear. Also isnt really weird that a law like this is put on the mainstream just when the IRak war is going long enough.
Mexico and US is the most important border in the whole word, it has the bigest exchange of people and merchandise (legal and non legal). its something thats good for both, as i do think that this cant keep going in a ilegal way im not so shure that they are making a law good enough to solve this problem, not even for your own gain.
Future internation economy isnt gonna be rule by superpowers (like now), its gonna be ruled by super regions (european union, asia-rusia, south america and mostly north america), so this kind of laws are a contradiction to a world-economic model US and super powers has been selling to the world trough globalization, like it or not we are partners and if we dont pull it together Asia and other regions in the world are gonna keep growing meanwhile US spend money in big bother security programs.
One addition...To eliminate the COMMON PLACE practice of people already IN this country to HIRE illegals for the lower "Under the table" pay rates, change the law to include FELONY charges for those who are proven to have engaged in the hiring of illegals...
I have no issue with people immigrating here...Sign the guest register and pay taxes like everyone else...No probs...
OUT!
I have no issue with people immigrating here...Sign the guest register and pay taxes like everyone else...No probs...
OUT!
One thought. If we implement the FairTax, they won't be able to avoid paying taxes anymore...
I ABSOLUTELY BACK THE FAIR TAX MOVEMENT...WE NEED IT...I concur with that all the way...
OUT!
OUT!
a couple of relevant articles I found on the net today...if you are interested in this topic I suggest reading these stories
http://csmonitor.com/2006/0419/p08s01-comv.html
something I proposed in an earlier post
http://csmonitor.com/2006/0330/p09s02-coop.html?s=t5
kind of reminds me of post-coldwar Russia
http://csmonitor.com/2006/0419/p08s01-comv.html
something I proposed in an earlier post
http://csmonitor.com/2006/0330/p09s02-coop.html?s=t5
kind of reminds me of post-coldwar Russia
I'm very well aware that we outsource a lot of jobs there, that wasn't the point. The point is that their economy is growing because of it. They are building a highly educated work force, and continuing to grow their economy and reducing unemployment.Erkut.hv wrote:
It's growing because we are outsourcing there. Call a computer helpdesk sometime, see who answers.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Agreed. I think Mexico could learn something from India. They were a dirt poor country, but they finally took a stand and started a massive education push. That country's economy is growing hand over fist, and as a result the number of high tech, engineering, and business professional oriented jobs that are going there are just getting larger and larger.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
This is quality. A post from someone on the other side. I would have to agree with about 99% of this, and never realized the total impact of money sent back to Mexico from workers legal and illegal.
I look at it this way. Part of the problems that arise from talking to some one in India comes from the fact that these people are working at night to accommodate the time difference to here. That is hard to do, as I've worked the graveyard shift before. There are is also a very large difference in culture. Given that Mexico is in much of the same time zone, and due to proximety, cultural differences are smaller. If Mexico could offer what India does for workers, I think most US businesses would rather outsource there than India for services.
Well it looks like another day of, lets sneak into a country and start a rally.
I'll take expensive vegetable's over expensive healthcare anyday.
I'll take expensive vegetable's over expensive healthcare anyday.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Why'dya delete the post you made before this one?Kmarion wrote:
Well it looks like another day of, lets sneak into a country and start a rally.
I'll take expensive vegetable's over expensive healthcare anyday.
Last edited by UnOriginalNuttah (2006-05-01 08:31:43)
Hmmmmmmm, now how am I supposed to feel about the National Anthem being sung in Spainish and protest signs held by illegals stating "We are America"?
Man I love the ignorance of some people, this country was build of the backs of immigrants, any one that’s says the opposite is an idiot. This country was founded by immigrants. From the beginning of this great country we have used immigrants to make this country the way we now know now it. Hell we even “traded” African Americans, and put them to “work” in the fields. That my friends is how American became a global power, Cotton and tobacco became Americas crop and its money, all because we did not have to pay for the labor force. The Chinese build the west by working on the Rail road tracks, when that was completed we got all pist and wanted them deported, prosecuted because they were “taking American” jobs no one wanted to work with TNT and die for measly pay. Who do we have left? The “huns”, the irish, “japs” the “spicks”, my point is that we have used immigrants for our advantage trough out Americans racist and shameful past, we need them, exploit them, and we kick them out due to our hatred. We live in a CAPITALIST society, the American government wont do shit to deport immigrants because they rely on them, CHEAP LABOR = PROFIT, my 2 cents
I kind of pist off about the reaction of american about this protest.. lets face it your pist off because a bunch of brown mexicans with mexican flags flood your streets.. they are there cos they were usefull, now some rigth wing politician saw an oportunity to come to the mainstream with this "invasion" LOL. just remember that imigration start growing faster and faster due to NAFTA. live quality is worst now in US, and almost any country in the whole fucking world because of "globalization" (another way of imperialism). US corporations are the one that are moving their big factorys to asian countries. So now you bougth a Nike sniker in $80 that was produced by asian chidrens in 2cents. Theres you big problem that sniker was made in US 20 years ago under American laws, wadge and unions.
word is flooding with hypocrecy, i have countless articles of TIME, CNN and all world media cherring globalization, free market and asian tigers. But they skip that growing and wealth is based on labor explotation, and that after 15 years or so live quality hasnt grow for most global population (not even asian tigers).
by the way many of those factorys were here in mexico at the begining of NAFTA but after a while they found cheaper wage rate and no unions in asia, so they left.
In the other hand i dont buy that shit that US is the one to punish. Im really pist of with our cheap goverment who has sell the whole country in the last 20 years to everyone else. Vicente Fox goverment its a joke since the begining probably the most ingnorant president ever. Im pist off with mexican in mexico (where im am) blaming US!! Fuck that!! lets blame our stupid presidente making stupid statments about protecting our inmigrants dignity, while he dont care for the whole country dignity.
yea and i do pist off everytime im in US and i found a conational who dont speak english.. fuck that dont be lassy
word is flooding with hypocrecy, i have countless articles of TIME, CNN and all world media cherring globalization, free market and asian tigers. But they skip that growing and wealth is based on labor explotation, and that after 15 years or so live quality hasnt grow for most global population (not even asian tigers).
by the way many of those factorys were here in mexico at the begining of NAFTA but after a while they found cheaper wage rate and no unions in asia, so they left.
In the other hand i dont buy that shit that US is the one to punish. Im really pist of with our cheap goverment who has sell the whole country in the last 20 years to everyone else. Vicente Fox goverment its a joke since the begining probably the most ingnorant president ever. Im pist off with mexican in mexico (where im am) blaming US!! Fuck that!! lets blame our stupid presidente making stupid statments about protecting our inmigrants dignity, while he dont care for the whole country dignity.
yea and i do pist off everytime im in US and i found a conational who dont speak english.. fuck that dont be lassy
Last edited by IronFerret (2006-05-01 19:29:22)
I think Steven Colbert put it best. I cant remember the exact way it was said....but it was comical. I dont care that people are immigrants to this country...shit thats what our country was really built off of. But I do think that they should do it legally.....and speak English. When I go to a restaurant I would like to be able to order in English. I guess we are lucky to speak the most common international language because if I went to somewhere like France, I would either have to hope the person at the restaurant speaks English, or someone there does, because I sure as shit dont know French. But if I were going there to live and work, I might learn it. But I dont plan on that happening anytime soon.
No denying all you say is true, however, I said "illegals" I didn't say immigrants. BIG BIG difference. The people I am talking about have no interest at all in becoming an American and you know it.Zapata1982 wrote:
Man I love the ignorance of some people, this country was build of the backs of immigrants, any one that’s says the opposite is an idiot. This country was founded by immigrants. From the beginning of this great country we have used immigrants to make this country the way we now know now it. Hell we even “traded” African Americans, and put them to “work” in the fields. That my friends is how American became a global power, Cotton and tobacco became Americas crop and its money, all because we did not have to pay for the labor force. The Chinese build the west by working on the Rail road tracks, when that was completed we got all pist and wanted them deported, prosecuted because they were “taking American” jobs no one wanted to work with TNT and die for measly pay. Who do we have left? The “huns”, the irish, “japs” the “spicks”, my point is that we have used immigrants for our advantage trough out Americans racist and shameful past, we need them, exploit them, and we kick them out due to our hatred. We live in a CAPITALIST society, the American government wont do shit to deport immigrants because they rely on them, CHEAP LABOR = PROFIT, my 2 cents
ok fine illigal immigrants if you want to get technical, its the same thing, we need to crack down on the corporation that make profits of illegal immigrants,
(from another post i made)
people that say that if the wages were good then they would take the jobs of Americans, hell then why not go get a bunch of your buddies, go to your local field, restaurant, home depot whatever and demand a job, get a union and demand higher wages, if they give the job to an illegal call the government, sue them whatever.
Now if you do get a job and have a decent wages for your new job, guess what happens the price for our fruits will triple in price, strawberry pies will skyrocket, a nice hotel room will have to cost a lot more, due to the higher cost of wages, we bitch and complain when we pay so much for gas, imagine if we pay triple the price of the items we are used to pay because of the cheap work force. This is not just an issue of Mexicans or immigrants; it’s an American problem, don’t blame the immigrants for companies that make profit of them, the way the this administration deals with immigrants or because of our ignorance of people with this issue, its called SCAPEGOATING, for those more simple minded-
Scapegoat, (skāp'gōt') Noun- One that is made to bear the blame of others.
blame the goverment, i always do
(from another post i made)
people that say that if the wages were good then they would take the jobs of Americans, hell then why not go get a bunch of your buddies, go to your local field, restaurant, home depot whatever and demand a job, get a union and demand higher wages, if they give the job to an illegal call the government, sue them whatever.
Now if you do get a job and have a decent wages for your new job, guess what happens the price for our fruits will triple in price, strawberry pies will skyrocket, a nice hotel room will have to cost a lot more, due to the higher cost of wages, we bitch and complain when we pay so much for gas, imagine if we pay triple the price of the items we are used to pay because of the cheap work force. This is not just an issue of Mexicans or immigrants; it’s an American problem, don’t blame the immigrants for companies that make profit of them, the way the this administration deals with immigrants or because of our ignorance of people with this issue, its called SCAPEGOATING, for those more simple minded-
Scapegoat, (skāp'gōt') Noun- One that is made to bear the blame of others.
blame the goverment, i always do
Last edited by Zapata1982 (2006-05-01 19:37:08)
I gave up on you when you said illegal immigrants are the same as immigrants. I will bet you that a person who immigrated here legally, took time to learn the national language and contributed to our society will agree with me.Zapata1982 wrote:
ok fine illigal immigrants if you want to get technical, its the same thing, we need to crack down on the corporation that make profits of illegal immigrants,
(from another post i made)
people that say that if the wages were good then they would take the jobs of Americans, hell then why not go get a bunch of your buddies, go to your local field, restaurant, home depot whatever and demand a job, get a union and demand higher wages, if they give the job to an illegal call the government, sue them whatever.
Now if you do get a job and have a decent wages for your new job, guess what happens the price for our fruits will triple in price, strawberry pies will skyrocket, a nice hotel room will have to cost a lot more, due to the higher cost of wages, we bitch and complain when we pay so much for gas, imagine if we pay triple the price of the items we are used to pay because of the cheap work force. This is not just an issue of Mexicans or immigrants; it’s an American problem, don’t blame the immigrants for companies that make profit of them, the way the this administration deals with immigrants or because of our ignorance of people with this issue, its called SCAPEGOATING, for those more simple minded-
Scapegoat, (skāp'gōt') Noun- One that is made to bear the blame of others.
blame the goverment, i always do
Also I am not sure that prices would skyrocket as you say since the law of supply and demand reigns in America. My guess is that 50 dollar strawberries will sit on the shelves and rot. Whatcha think?
by the way, i agree with people here we are in america learn the fucking languange, dont wave Mexican flags, thats BS, i am a mexican that was born in mexico, yes i was an illegal when i first entered this country, but i worked my ass of learning the languange, and working from the bottom up, and getting a college education then becoming an American Citizen, fuck that shit was hard, those people who want a free ride, fuck them, SI SE PUEDE mi ass, get ur asses an education and stop freeloading yea iknow i sound like a hypocrite, but fuck i started from the bottom and worked my self to get an education. there is both way extrems to this issue, not all illegals come here to freeload, people c the demostrations and generalize everyone, that my friend is discrimination, what we need is better imigration reform and stiffer penalties for corporations that take advantage of illegals, howe the fuck are people gonna deport 2+ million people, what then build a wall and hopefully they wont come back, please. if there a will there a way
shout out to lowingZapata1982 wrote:
by the way, i agree with people here we are in america learn the fucking languange, dont wave Mexican flags, thats BS, i am a mexican that was born in mexico, yes i was an illegal when i first entered this country, but i worked my ass of learning the languange, and working from the bottom up, and getting a college education then becoming an American Citizen, fuck that shit was hard, those people who want a free ride, fuck them, SI SE PUEDE mi ass, get ur asses an education and stop freeloading yea iknow i sound like a hypocrite, but fuck i started from the bottom and worked my self to get an education. there is both way extrems to this issue, not all illegals come here to freeload, people c the demostrations and generalize everyone, that my friend is discrimination, what we need is better imigration reform and stiffer penalties for corporations that take advantage of illegals, howe the fuck are people gonna deport 2+ million people, what then build a wall and hopefully they wont come back, please. if there a will there a way
you still came here illegally, you are part of the problem. I dont care if you found the cure for cancer, if you were illegal you are still illegal. Honestly you are sounding like a god damn hippocrate, how can you bash illegals when you youself were once illegal. You should get deported for your attitude.
yea there is no easy way about this, american rellies on illegals, like i said the goverment wont do shit, look at congress, they are divided in the issue, the president wants a guess worker plan that NO one wants, and the american people want all illegals out, its not a cut and dry issue hell i dont have a solution, it be interesting how this works out, lowing what soluting or idea would u give, just interested in ur posiition, but i agree in one thing LEARN THE AMERICAN LANGUAGE!!!!
english writing skills are a plus but not necessaryZapata1982 wrote:
........but i agree in one thing LEARN THE AMERICAN LANGUAGE!!!!
Gunslinger read the dam post, i know i sound like a hypocrite, by the way i love ur ignorance
what does ignorance mean?
man im not gonna have a childish conversation with you, those are my opinions, i respect your opinion, if you have something serious to say then say it, you can agree or diagree, whatever floats ur boat, i here to express my opinion, not to bash other people, if you dont agree with me fine, state ur opinion dont be an ass
by the way
ignorance
- Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. Ignorance is also a "state of being ignorant" or unaware/uninformed. Ex: "In debate class Bill lost the debate because he was ignorant in (without knowledge of) that subject."
by the way
ignorance
- Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. Ignorance is also a "state of being ignorant" or unaware/uninformed. Ex: "In debate class Bill lost the debate because he was ignorant in (without knowledge of) that subject."
ass as in donkey or glutos maximus(sp?)
I like my immigrants legal, go back to where you came from you felon.
if you really wanna know my opinion, asshole, then maybe you should go through the dozen or so posts i put on this very topic instead of jumping to the end so you could get some attention. There is absolutly nothing new that I could say about this subject that has not be read by somebody else worth having an argument with. And you, my little zapatista, are not worth wasting another lette...
I like my immigrants legal, go back to where you came from you felon.
if you really wanna know my opinion, asshole, then maybe you should go through the dozen or so posts i put on this very topic instead of jumping to the end so you could get some attention. There is absolutly nothing new that I could say about this subject that has not be read by somebody else worth having an argument with. And you, my little zapatista, are not worth wasting another lette...
Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2006-05-01 20:20:03)
Gunslinger, read the post before you flame!Zapata1982 wrote:
yes i was an illegal when i first entered this country, but i worked my ass of learning the languange, and working from the bottom up, and getting a college education then becoming an American Citizen, fuck that shit was hard
Nice work, Zapata. I respect anyone willing to improve their situation like that.