Shahter wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Shahter wrote:
"team effort"? ah, you mean that episode when the free and the brave were sitting back doing what they do best - lending money to those, who did actual fighting? - sure, it helped. thank you for reminding me of our debt, kind sir. don't worry, we intend to pay you back eventually.
Nice. As if that was the point. It wasn't money that was lent, but rather warfighting equipment. Equipment that Russia (and England and others) did not have and did not have the capacity to produce due to war losses at the time. Equipment that got Russia "over the hump" until she could get her industry re-distributed out of reach of Germany and back on its feet.
the point was - ussr stood between a good number of those people, who now cry "commies weren't any better than nazies" and total annihilation. the point was there would not have been slavs, gipsies, asians, jews and allah knows whom else left in the larger part of the world if ussr didn't stand up to the menace of nazi germany. and what have usa been doing? - oh yeah, lending stuff, fixing their failing economy, getting eveybody indebted to them so that they could coerce them into various economical and political deals later. did lend-lease help - certainly. it was crucial to the soviet union's war effort, especially in the beginning of the war, but it only amounted for about 5% of the total equipment manufactured and used by ussr during the war.
f i v e
p e r c e n t
that was your part in "team effort", which, btw, we still have to pay you back for.
FEOS wrote:
And in 42-43, we were fighting too...on multiple fronts. Don't know if you realized that.
just not with nazi germany and not where it actually mattered. but, yeah, usa did fight some. even lost 200 000+ of their men. while soviet union lost thirty five millions.
so please, puh-lease, flush the "team effort" and "united nations" with the rest of your crap. ussr won the war against nazi germany, with some help from the allies. end of story.
No, I guess the Allies (that would be a "team" of "united nations" weren't fighting Nazi Germany in North Africa or Italy during 42 & 43, were we? Nope, the ONLY fighting going on was in Russia. That's it. All the history books are wrong. And my grandfather was just making up stories. He probably put that shrapnel in his back as part of the great conspiracy to make it seem like the US saved the world singlehandedly, too.
"Not where it actually mattered". You have no concept of history, Shahter. You think the only thing that counts is the number of casualties. Yes, the USSR lost a lot of people. That speaks more to how the Germans attacked and how the USSR employed its army than it does to how much or little the others fought themselves.
RAIMIUS pointed out the CBO, the impact on the Luftwaffe, industry, etc. There were various pressures being placed on the Axis from multiple directions. Had the pressures on German industry and infrastructure not been there, Russia wouldn't have seen the success they did, because the Luftwaffe would've been flying without problems--the USSR certainly didn't have bombing capability to use against them. Without the POL pressure in North Africa, the ME, and the pressure coming up through Italy, German forces wouldn't have had logistics problems and wouldn't have been split against multiple fronts, giving the Russians even more to fight against--which would've made Moscow and Stalingrad and those other battles possibly come out differently.
So, no, if the USSR hadn't had help, she may very well NOT have won on her own. Regardless of what the "great man" Stalin told you.
And all those things I pointed out uzique? Those were TEAM efforts...not US alone.
