BF2S Forums the Official Real World Facts thread

burnzz wrote:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3587/342 … d735dd.jpg

Nice pic.. but I am not clicking that link. No way. You'll reset my "marked as read" again

Tues. May. 18/10                                Pace51

Real world facts about the UH-60 Black Hawk

Powered by: Two 1261- kW General Electric T700-GE-700, 701, or 401 turbojets
Max. Speed: 296 KmH
Range: 600 Km
Armament: two 7.62 mm (30. cal) door mounted guns.
Manufacturer: Sikorsky

     The UH-60 Black hawk is a very important helicopter in modern warfare, not to mention famous. It replaced Bells famous UH-1 Huey. It was designed yo take an 11 man infantry squad into battle. There are many varieties. More guides on the others will come.



UH-60 Black Hawk: Army
MH-60 Pave Hawk: Air Force/Special operations
HH-60 Jayhawk: Naval rescue operations
SH-60B Seahawk: Navy
SH-60F “Ocean Hawk”: Navy, specifically carriers.
VH-60N: Presidential transport, VIP service with the marines.

     Sikorsky’s designation for this helicopter is the S-70. The UH-60 fulfills all kinds of roles, and is very adaptable. Other roles include Electronic Warfare, VIP Transport, and ambulance roles. The black hawk’s pilots are granted an amazing visibility and great armor protection. There is also an exhaust suppression system which greatly reduces its vulnerability to heat seeking missiles.

     Its more well-known battles include Operation Desert Storm, Grenada, and Panama. Its looks have changed very little over the years, but it has been upgraded many times over. More powerful engines, and the ability to hoist TOW-missile loaded Hum-Vee’s are among some of the upgrades.

     When it was being designed, its designers utilized Vietnam experience. The fuselage is very long and flat making it fit easily and allowing it to carry a large load of fuel at the same time. The tips of the propeller rotor blades are swept; giving it improved performance and durability especially in hot and humid conditions. Also, the Black Hawk’s engines are spaced very widely as a good precaution against damage. The designers of the UH-60 built the tail rotor at an angle, meaning that the tail could generate its own lift and allow the aircraft to lift heavier loads. It can carry weapons, but it is really a troop carrier or equipment transport. In fact, the doors are specially designed to open wide and evacuate the troops as quick as possible. The rotors and blades can easily withstand HMG rounds, and the gearbox is designed to run 30 minutes after the oil supply has been depleted. The UH-60 can land fast and its undercarriage absorbs force generated by 45 kmH landings.

     The most used Gulf War helicopter was the Black hawk, and over 350 served. They brought troops to the front of the Coalitions spear head. The airborne troops outflanked Iraq’s defenses. For a transport, the Black Hawk is tough and quick. It can carry many more troops than the Huey could, and more safely. A condition that military equipment designers have to take in consideration is that they must make their equipment easily transportable via Black Hawk. The Black Hawk is equipped with external hooks for this very purpose. Special forces personnel can rope down quickly from a black hawk into hot zones.

     The UH-60 Black Hawk entered service in 1979. The original prototype flew on October 17, 1974. In the first gulf war, more than a million soldiers were moved via black hawks. Currently, a UH-60Q medical evacuation variant is under development by the United States Army. On April 14th, 1994, a tragic mishap occurred. F-15 Eagle fighter aircraft shot down 2 black hawks and killed 26 crewmembers, mistaking them for enemies in this friendly fire incident.

Sun. June 13/10                                Pace51

Real world facts about the VH-60 Whitehawk

Variant: VIP Transport Helicopter
Accommodations: Four crew members. Crew chief, Pilot and Co-Pilot, and a Com-systems operator

     When the president or other heads of state require transport, they choose the VH-60N Whitehawk. It’s designated Marine-1, and only 5 are in existence. These specialized models of the UH-60 Blackhawk provide safe, comfortable, and efficient transport for the elite.

     This helicopter is very spacious, refurbished, and exquisitely furnished. Since it needs to meet very high standards to suit the heads of state, it is decorated with very expensive and fine materials. It can also be folded up, compacted and ready for transport by cargojets such as C-17’s very, very quickly, in less than two hours. The Whitehawk should still be flying its very special missions up until 1015, where the government will have two choices. Choice one is simple, replacement. Choice two is initiate an extended life program that can keep the Whitehawk flying until somewhere around 2025. The Navy has many specific personnel on hand at Quantico, Virginia, to operate the VH-60. However, contrary to somewhat popular belief, you do not need special training to fly an executive aircraft, and a licensed military helicopter pilot can easily fly it. This is slightly unlike many other aircraft, like special forces helicopters, patrol aircraft, gun ships, and air tankers. The air force base in Virginia designed a VH-60 Aircrew Proficiency Trainer, which is basically a flight simulator. It is very much like normal helicopter virtual trainers, and helps prepare pilots for the VH-60.



     The helicopter has a standard Blackhawk series configuration of two engines and one main rotor, as well as accommodations to fit equipment that can be used to make it fly steadier or lengthen its lifespan. The VH-60 is starting to grow older, but it is not too old. One very important consideration the USA must take into consideration is maintenance. Although I mentioned it above, the VH-60 is constantly maintained. If it gets so much as a scratch, it gets maintained. It’s also kept on-call, and can be ready to go in short periods of time. The helicopters have a good service life expectation, the original surpassing 7,500 hours, which in itself is an accomplishment. Although these helicopters may look civilian, they are Marine operated.

     In 1993, more specifically the 19th of may that year, a Whitehawk lost control and smashed into the ground. It had been on an evaluation flight, and the aircrew had been checking to see if the aircraft had been properly maintained. When simulations were done, the pilot and aircrew gave their account, a very startling one. Not one, but both engines “Flamed out”. This is very bad, because many helicopters aren’t just twin engined for extra power, they have two engines to that if one gets damaged, the other can support the aircraft. To make matters worse, the aircraft crashed right into a forest, with two engines aflame. Luckily for the aircrew, the Whitehawk had been modeled after the Blackhawk. You see, a Blackhawk is what some call “Crash-proof”. It can absorb a 40 meters per second direct impact on the ground, which is grueling yet admirable. Also, in an emergency, instead of falling out of the sky, a hydraulic back-up system kicks in and the helicopter begins to spin. So, rather than smashing into the ground, the helicopter spins down while upright, meaning it absorbs even more of the impact. Because of this, most crashed UH-60 series helicopters aren’t flaming wrecks, usually just crashed into the ground. The problem was determined to be improperly installed loading pins, which due to the location they were in, and due to the fact the flight crew was flying pretty fast, made the engine think that the aircraft was flying to fast to be safe and it initiated the engine “Flame-out” emergency procedures. Squadron maintenance crews were determined as the cause of the mishap, having installed certain features improperly to the VH-60.

Tues. June 15/10                                Pace51

Real World Facts about the AH-60 Battlehawk

Powered by: T700-GE-701C
Armament: 20mm GIAT THL 20 cannon, and a variety of rockets, Hellfire missiles, Stinger missiles, and 7.65mm guns, or 20mm-30mm guns mounted on external pods
Model: Helicopter Gunship

     Sikorsky’s S-70 Battlehawk. Now, what you’re most likely thinking is, “Well, they basically took a Blackhawk and put as many guns as humanly possible on it.” If you think that, you are absolutely right. The Blackhawk can carry heavy loads, so why not test it out as a gunship?

     Australia is one customer that is very interested in the Battlehawk, having put it through vigorous tests. Other countries, especially countries that have used other variants of the UH-60 Blackhawk, are interested in this copter. It gives them an advantage, because their pilots are used to flying S-70 series helicopters, and this helicopter is an S-70 series. The Battlehawk’s are based on the UH-60L model, an upgraded version of the Blackhawk’s. The engines on the AH-60 are among the most powerful carried by S-70 series helicopters, and they have a very high rated gearbox for control. Battlehawk’s also get cargo hooks and electromagnetic countermeasure systems in case of an emergency. The Battlehawk can be roughly compared to the Mi-24 or Mi-35 Hind, in concept. You see, the Hind was a heavily armed attack helicopter capable of carrying a lot of troops. So can the Battlehawk. And, the Battlehawk’s are a whole lot newer. The Battlehawks have upgraded payloads compared to their predecessors. It also carries the same survival equipment that has saved many a Blackhawk crewmember in every single theatre it flew in.



     Battle Hawks’s advantages are a heavy weapons load, survivability gear, great handling, great dashing speeds, good maneuverability, and armour. If you see a Battlehawk, you usually won’t have time to pull your gun out. If you shoot a Battlehawk, you’ll probably miss. If you hit a battlehawk, you won’t pierce the armour. If you damage an engine, the back up will carry it home. If you blow both engines off, it’ll go into a spin and absorb the impact upon hitting the ground. Notice how none of the above scenario’s ends with the pilots getting killed while they are still in the Battlehawk.

Here is a list of what Battlehawk’s carry as weapons (Or equipment) and what they are used against:

Rocket’s: Lightly armoured and unarmoured vehicles, and infantry.
Hellfire Missiles: Heavily armoured tanks and armour
Stinger missiles: Air to Air helicopter combat
Chain Guns: Lightly and unarmoured vehicles, and infantry.
Countermeasures: Heatseeking rockets
Drop Tanks: Refueling
Cargo Hook: Transporting light and medium-weight vehicles

Now, what a lot of people will say upon reading the list is “So what? Other helicopters can carry these”. Now, here’s the beauty of this. Other helicopter’s carry these, yes, but can only carry about two of these at a time! The Battlehawk can carry pretty much everything! And, Battlehawks are some of the few dedicated gunships capable of carrying cargo, although it usually keeps cargo and combat missions separate. Another great advantage of the AH-60’s large load is that it an carry the munitions needed to reload the weapon systems in mid-air. Most attack helicopters can only carry one load of weaponry before having to return, reload, and refuel. The Battlehawk can reload in mid-air.

     The pilots carry a specialized MIDASH helmet. This specialized piece of equipment allows the pilots to have a good view of the battle, as well as nightvision. The helmet also offers tracking, weapons and flight systems monitoring. The cockpit itself has a large HUD with LCD’s mounted on the glass. In addition, the cockpit has a greater visibility than most contemporary attack helicopters thanks to it’s origins as a spacious utility helicopter. The window sills band and tilt slightly to also provide a better vantage point. Because the pilot has both an HUD and other tools, he can fly the helicopter and monitor the systems while looking straight out the cockpit.

     Sikorsky teamed up with other big names in aircraft to build the Battlehawk, the attack variant of the UH-60 Blackhawk. For example, GIAT configured and designed the chain gun systems, which they are well known for. General Electric provided the power in the form of dual T700’s.

Last edited by pace51 (2010-06-16 09:59:44)

end yourself

Fri. May 21/10                                Pace51

Real World Facts about the Messerschmitt Me-410 Hornisse

Maiden Flight: Late in 1942
Powered by: Dual Daimler-Benz 1850 hp 603A inverted V-12 in-line piston engines
Armament: Four 20mm cannon and two 7.93mm machine guns, as well as two 13mm remotely controlled rear-facing barbettes.
Max. Speed: 625 KpH
Range: 1690 Km

     The Messerschmitt Me-410 was born out of an attempt to replace the Messerschmitt Me-110. The Me-110 had been a very successful interceptor and the German High Command turned to Messerschmitt for an even more powerful successor. So, Messerschmitt started to work on a new interceptor, the Me-210. However, this aircraft required constant attention by its pilots and was a real handful. It was unstable, and could stall or spin frequently, which would have doomed many pilots. However, 200 were ordered and began rolling off the production line. Then, Germany changed their mind for the 2nd or third time again and decided to void the order. In stead, they would build a new batch of Me-110’s.

     Messerschmitt went to work and salvaged the Me210 chassis, but the fuselage was lengthened, and automatic leading edge slats were added, which really helped to counter the aircrafts tendency to stall. Then, Messerschmitt stuck on two quite powerful new engines. It was now a heavy two-seater fighter. And so the Me-410 Hornisse (Hornet) was born. They served in bomber interception duties, fighter duties, and as night fighters (On the eastern front). The Me-410A’s reached the front-line fighter units in 1943, and gradually replaced the Dornier Do 217’s and Junkers Ju 88’s. Then, they were incorporated in the nightfighter-bomber/Multirole duties over London. After this, they were brutally effective bomber-destroyers in the Mediterranean. From the spring of 1944 onwards they started to replace BF-110’s that were carrying out Zerstorer (Bomber-destroyer) roles in defence of the Third Reich. Around this time was when the fought at night on the Eastern front. However, production slowed due to a lack of materials. One of the ultimate bomber-destroyer models, the Me-410A-1/U4 carried a 50mm cannon weighing a massive 900kg and had a recoil of several tones! This gun was a beast though. This aircraft was extremely fast, extremely heavily armed, and you did not want it on your tail. Unless you flew a Boulton-Paul Defiant.

     However, this gun did heavy damage to bombers. At the same time, it terrified the Me-410 flight crews because, several tonnes of recoil? Have fun controlling that plane. For a comparison, albeit a slightly bad one, picture an A-10 pilot firing his cannon for 2 minutes straight. That would slow the plane down immensely. If the barrel didn’t first overheat. However, it accomplished the same amount as the Bf-110 did, but it can be argued that although it was better than the bf-110, the Me-410’s faced more advanced aircraft. A total of 1100 were built, and production ended September 1944. After the war. The RAF evaluated and captured several examples.

Last edited by pace51 (2010-05-21 05:14:17)

pace51 wrote:

Wed. May 19/10                                Pace51

Real World Facts about the Petlyakov Pe-3

Maiden Flight: December 22 1939
Armament: Two 20mm cannon in bomb bay, two 7.62 mm Machine guns or two 12.7mm cannon in nose, plus one 12.7mm cannon in dorsal turret
Model: Pe-3bis
Max. Speed: 530 KpH
Range: 1700 Km

     This amazing aircraft was originally intended as a high altitude interceptor but carried on the long Russian tradition of designing something that sucks at what you designed it for, but excels at everything else.

     However, a decision was made to make these as bomber aircraft instead of interceptors. Its heavy armament and good speed would’ve rocked as an interceptor, but a bomber it was. You like your family? Than you no argue with the Russian High Command, comrade. It was incredibly quick for the era it was built into and was an excellent tactical dive bomber. In the summer of 1941, the RAF sent two hurricane squadrons over to help the Russians, and the Hurricanes were almost out accelerated! Now that was a feat. Gotta love the Ruskies. And, that was an earlier model they were escorting, too, not the faster later models. Then, it was developed into a multi-role fighter. Instead of the bomber crew of three, the fighter versions were crewed by two. In the main and rear bomb bays it carried additional fuel. However, only 23 Pe-3’s were built before Operation Barbarossa, and production ceased because Germany was smashing Russia. Well, at least until Stalingrad. We all know what happened there.

     However, the Reds converting existing Pe-2’s into multi-role fighters as well. They were designated Pe-3bis, and were quite powerful. Every second Pe-2 aircraft was modified into a Pe-3bis. Around 300 total aircraft were built, and from Aaugust 1941 onwards, front-lines received examples. Also, it was used in the night fighter role, where it was also very potent.

Cool man, got pics?  Where these deployed primarily in anti-tank roles or what? It seems like both Germany and Russia lacked a heavy bomber that equaled the likes of the b-17 in WWII.

Hehe, pace. Not the best way to introduce the MiG-29. That aside, nice thread, very informative.

good fact checking yet again.

12.7 mm cannon? pfft.

Stubbee wrote:

good fact checking yet again.

12.7 mm cannon? pfft.

Hey. That is real. 12.7 mm can be considered cannons. .50 cal or not, they are a large calibre round, and although not many referred to them as cannons at the time, since most cannons were considerably larger, around 20mm, it can be a cannon.

SonderKommando wrote:

pace51 wrote:

Wed. May 19/10                                Pace51

Real World Facts about the Petlyakov Pe-3

Maiden Flight: December 22 1939
Armament: Two 20mm cannon in bomb bay, two 7.62 mm Machine guns or two 12.7mm cannon in nose, plus one 12.7mm cannon in dorsal turret
Model: Pe-3bis
Max. Speed: 530 KpH
Range: 1700 Km

     This amazing aircraft was originally intended as a high altitude interceptor but carried on the long Russian tradition of designing something that sucks at what you designed it for, but excels at everything else.

     However, a decision was made to make these as bomber aircraft instead of interceptors. Its heavy armament and good speed would’ve rocked as an interceptor, but a bomber it was. You like your family? Than you no argue with the Russian High Command, comrade. It was incredibly quick for the era it was built into and was an excellent tactical dive bomber. In the summer of 1941, the RAF sent two hurricane squadrons over to help the Russians, and the Hurricanes were almost out accelerated! Now that was a feat. Gotta love the Ruskies. And, that was an earlier model they were escorting, too, not the faster later models. Then, it was developed into a multi-role fighter. Instead of the bomber crew of three, the fighter versions were crewed by two. In the main and rear bomb bays it carried additional fuel. However, only 23 Pe-3’s were built before Operation Barbarossa, and production ceased because Germany was smashing Russia. Well, at least until Stalingrad. We all know what happened there.

     However, the Reds converting existing Pe-2’s into multi-role fighters as well. They were designated Pe-3bis, and were quite powerful. Every second Pe-2 aircraft was modified into a Pe-3bis. Around 300 total aircraft were built, and from Aaugust 1941 onwards, front-lines received examples. Also, it was used in the night fighter role, where it was also very potent.

Cool man, got pics?  Where these deployed primarily in anti-tank roles or what? It seems like both Germany and Russia lacked a heavy bomber that equaled the likes of the b-17 in WWII.

Well, although it was intended to be an interceptor, it was pitched into battle as a tactical/dive bomber (Pe-2) or as a multi-role fighter (Pe-3bis).

fail thread

fail mods

m3thod wrote:

fail thread

fail mods

fail members tbh

11 Bravo wrote:

no, fail mods tbh.

How is that oh great beholder of old ancient forum knowledge?