Honest Politicians

2010-05-06 13:48:01

#1

Flaming_Maniac: prince of insufficient light; +2,490|6992|67.222.138.85

It can be reasonably asserted that corruption is present in every political body. Where there is power, there is corruption.

However there is a distinct difference between being honest and being corrupt. In most cases if you are corrupt you aren't going to tell anyone about it for obvious reasons, but the two are not mutually exclusive.

---

Can a politician be elected on the platform of raising taxes? Particularly to a high office? It is trivial that at times it makes complete sense to raise taxes at times - but the most rationale argument means nothing to a fickle demographic that doesn't want to mail a substantial check to a building they have never seen to people they don't know for it to be used in a very disconnected fashion.

But that is no justification. Just because it is difficult to see how the taxes you pay influence your life doesn't excuse voting them down by proxy at every chance while demanding more benefits. Yet that is what the people as a whole do. Then we're shocked and appalled at the state of politics?

Stupidity begets insincerity. Demand the impossible, elect the guy promising the impossible, tank his approval ratings when he doesn't deliver and swear at the immorality of politicians. How is this not the fault of the people demanding the impossible in the first place? Instead of dangling the carrot you give the donkey the carrot under the condition he gets you where you want to go afterwards, and blame the donkey when he sits on his fat ass munching the carrot.

2010-05-06 13:55:39

#2

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|6906|London, England

The problem with most politicians is that they are mostly multi millionaires yet they'll still be influenced by money and personal wealth extremely easily. They'll do whatever they can to hoard more wealth. The system needs to change, politicians need to be financially monitored in a very extreme manner.

You make it impossible for them to be able to garner wealth from anything except their standard paycheck. Of course, shit like that is impossible... and is probably more likely to make corruption worse than better. Most of these people are already so rich, why... why the fuck do they still care about their own bank accounts.

2010-05-06 14:00:19

#3

SEREMAKER: BABYMAKIN EXPERT √; +2,187|6854|Mountains of NC

I like the freshman junior congress/senators that just pull shit out of there ass = " I'm going to DC to clean it up " " I'll make sure that no new taxes hit our distrect " blah blah

they should really start making shit up to get in ....... " You like Back to the Future, I will make sure that we push forward in time travel technology " " Have you seen Iron Man, vote me in and I will make sure that every person gets a Mark IV suit and I will replace all power planets with arc reactors "

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg

2010-05-06 14:25:03

#4

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|6886|132 and Bush

Mekstizzle wrote:
The problem with most politicians is that they are mostly multi millionaires yet they'll still be influenced by money and personal wealth extremely easily. They'll do whatever they can to hoard more wealth.

That sounds like the same thing that happens with certain TV "personalities". There are people who believe TV personalities don't lie, only politicians.

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2010-05-06 15:46:14

#5

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6690|North Carolina

I think it's a cultural thing. Some people are just more realistic in what they expect out of government.

For example, Canadians are generally more realistic about taxation vs. benefits. If they want more from government, they are prepared to pay more in taxes. Not surprisingly, this better grip on fiscal consequences has allowed them to run budget surpluses for a long time now.

America is more like Greece. We want the benefits without the taxes. Greece decided to go much further in that direction than we did, and so it's not surprising that they've suffered as a result. Unfortunately, we face the same fate eventually unless we wise up and either allow our politicians to cut spending or accept higher taxes to help pay down the debts we're amassing.

2010-05-06 16:37:44

#6

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

Honesty doesn't get people elected.
'I want an easy well paid job because I'm fat and lazy and will use my position to give govt contracts to which ever corporations promise me an even easier better paid job after I leave politics.'

Fuck Israel

2010-05-06 16:48:47

#7

DesertFox-: The very model of a modern major general; +796|6970|United States of America

Dilbert_X wrote:
Honesty doesn't get people elected.
'I want an easy well paid job because I'm fat and lazy and will use my position to give govt contracts to which ever corporations promise me an even easier better paid job after I leave politics.'

One would then make the arguement that simply telling the truth doesn't make you "honest", as most people would feel inclined to label the politician you described as at least somewhat corrupt.

2010-05-06 19:32:26

#8

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6696|'Murka

So, FM, you're saying it's the fault of the electorate--and not the fault of the politician--that the politician is dishonest?

Seriously?

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-05-06 19:42:11

#9

Reciprocity: Member; +721|6866|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Seeing as most people, liberal and conservative, want to be sold on some kind of fantasy, FM's assessment is accurate.

2010-05-06 19:43:31

#10

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6756

accurate and incredibly obvious.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-05-06 20:00:00

#11

Flaming_Maniac: prince of insufficient light; +2,490|6992|67.222.138.85

FEOS wrote:
So, FM, you're saying it's the fault of the electorate--and not the fault of the politician--that the politician is dishonest?

Seriously?

If the electorate will only elect liars, then how is it not their fault that the people they elect are dishonest?

2010-05-06 20:00:45

#12

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6696|'Murka

Flaming_Maniac wrote:
FEOS wrote:
So, FM, you're saying it's the fault of the electorate--and not the fault of the politician--that the politician is dishonest?

Seriously?
If the electorate will only elect liars, then how is it not their fault that the people they elect are dishonest?

The the only option is liars, what else can they elect?

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-05-06 20:00:58

#13

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6690|North Carolina

FEOS wrote:
So, FM, you're saying it's the fault of the electorate--and not the fault of the politician--that the politician is dishonest?

Seriously?

In a way, I agree. My first reaction was somewhat out of disbelief too, but the more I think about it, the more it rings true.

2010-05-06 20:03:44

#14

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6696|'Murka

It's a chicken and egg question, more likely.

I think there was a time when the public could handle an honest politician. Now, even if the public could handle one, the other powers out there (media, special interests, etc), can't and would eviscerate them to the point so that even if they were honest, nobody would ever know it.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-05-06 20:05:28

#15

Flaming_Maniac: prince of insufficient light; +2,490|6992|67.222.138.85

FEOS wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:
FEOS wrote:
So, FM, you're saying it's the fault of the electorate--and not the fault of the politician--that the politician is dishonest?

Seriously?
If the electorate will only elect liars, then how is it not their fault that the people they elect are dishonest?
The the only option is liars, what else can they elect?

Constitutional requirements to be eligible for the office of President:

* be a natural born citizen of the United States;
* be at least thirty-five years old;
* have been a permanent resident in the United States for at least fourteen years.

I see nothing about being a liar.

2010-05-06 20:05:35

#16

Diesel_dyk: Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears; +178|6280|Truthistan

honest politician, that's an oxymoron

These guys don't get to where they are by being honest. The honest ones get weeded out. It the really corrupt, the corruptible and the closeted ones with something to hide so that people have dirt on them that get into power... and then there are the favored elites who really fit into one or all of the above categories.

Most are just power seekers with no conscience

2010-05-06 20:08:36

#17

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6690|North Carolina

FEOS wrote:
It's a chicken and egg question, more likely.

I think there was a time when the public could handle an honest politician. Now, even if the public could handle one, the other powers out there (media, special interests, etc), can't and would eviscerate them to the point so that even if they were honest, nobody would ever know it.

Good points... but I guess that goes back to the cultural thing. I think the media is somewhat responsible for our unrealistic expectations, but I also think it has to do with our values.

We've become so materialistic as a society that we seem to forget that earning and saving are more important than consuming in the long run.

This translates to massive budget deficits in the governmental sector, because we're so accustomed to buying things on credit. We even expect it out of our politicians.

2010-05-06 20:11:21

#18

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6696|'Murka

Flaming_Maniac wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:

If the electorate will only elect liars, then how is it not their fault that the people they elect are dishonest?
The the only option is liars, what else can they elect?
Constitutional requirements to be eligible for the office of President:

* be a natural born citizen of the United States;
* be at least thirty-five years old;
* have been a permanent resident in the United States for at least fourteen years.

I see nothing about being a liar.

I didn't say it's a requirement, did I?

I said it's the only option we have any more.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-05-06 20:13:32

#19

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:
It's a chicken and egg question, more likely.

I think there was a time when the public could handle an honest politician. Now, even if the public could handle one, the other powers out there (media, special interests, etc), can't and would eviscerate them to the point so that even if they were honest, nobody would ever know it.

Maybe in the US, other countries media aren't quite so wildly partisan.
But the point on the public is right, which is why none of the UK candidates are detailing the major changes the UK is going to need.

Fuck Israel

2010-05-06 20:26:34

#20

Flaming_Maniac: prince of insufficient light; +2,490|6992|67.222.138.85

FEOS wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:
FEOS wrote:

The the only option is liars, what else can they elect?
Constitutional requirements to be eligible for the office of President:

* be a natural born citizen of the United States;
* be at least thirty-five years old;
* have been a permanent resident in the United States for at least fourteen years.

I see nothing about being a liar.
I didn't say it's a requirement, did I?

I said it's the only option we have any more.

Why are liars the only option?

2010-05-07 02:41:23

#21

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6696|'Murka

Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Why are liars the only option?

See my response to Turq, above.

It's less liars and more just people with no integrity. The lying just comes with it.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-05-07 06:53:57

#22

BLdw: ..; +27|5457|M104 "Sombrero"

FEOS wrote:
The the only option is liars, what else can they elect?

Is every man a liar?

2010-05-07 06:55:21

#23

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7002

BLdw wrote:
FEOS wrote:
The the only option is liars, what else can they elect?
Is every man a liar?

https://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/House---No-Lies-house-md-561420_1680_1050.jpg

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2010-05-07 07:44:10

#24

Flaming_Maniac: prince of insufficient light; +2,490|6992|67.222.138.85

FEOS wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Why are liars the only option?
See my response to Turq, above.

It's less liars and more just people with no integrity. The lying just comes with it.

The point is you only elect people that are willing to lie. That is indicative of a lack of integrity.

2010-05-07 07:46:08

#25

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

But the only ones who put themselves forward for election are those without integrity, which is why voter turnout is so low, which makes it easier for them to get in and so on...

Fuck Israel

BF2S Forums Honest Politicians

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