Stubbee
Religions Hate Facts, Questions and Doubts
+223|7028|Reality
Personally I think terrorists are funding themselves through some pretty clever schemes. Radical far right Muslims think our banking systems are against the teachings of Islam so why not defraud them and fund jihad? I certainly don't think it was just a simple case of bank fraud. I speculate that the same scheme is working in other countries.

Sneaky bastards.


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/ … -bank.html

Bank of Montreal alleges huge mortgage fraud
Last Updated: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 | 9:04 PM MT Comments428Recommend383
By Charles Rusnell, CBC News

This house in the Bearspaw district of Calgary was bought for nearly $900,000 and in three years, its value was inflated to $2.3 million, a profit of $1.4 million for the alleged fraudsters.This house in the Bearspaw district of Calgary was bought for nearly $900,000 and in three years, its value was inflated to $2.3 million, a profit of $1.4 million for the alleged fraudsters. (CBC)

The Bank of Montreal is suing hundreds of people in Alberta, including lawyers, mortgage brokers and four of its own employees, in what is one of the largest alleged cases of mortgage fraud in Canadian history.

Legal documents obtained exclusively by CBC News allege the bank was the target of a sophisticated fraud operated by 14 inter-connected groups. The documents allege the scheme generated at least $140 million, about $70 million of which was for phoney mortgages.

The bank has estimated it may lose as much as $30 million.

Toronto forensic accountant Al Rosen said he has never seen anything like it.

"This is massive in the sense that it is so broad and so deep," Rosen said Tuesday. "This is [allegedly] a huge fraud. I can't think of any situation that has so many people involved and over a period of time like this one."
Problems detected in 2006

The bank said it first detected the alleged scam in 2006 when its security department noticed "irregularities" in a number of mortgages in Western Canada. Officials immediately hired a forensic accounting firm, which spent nearly a year unraveling what the bank calls a sophisticated scheme.
Legal documents allege millions of dollars have been transferred to such countries as Lebanon, India, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Pakistan.Legal documents allege millions of dollars have been transferred to such countries as Lebanon, India, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Pakistan. (CBC)

The bank's investigators say the scam's ringleaders would identify the worst house in a good neighbourhood. They would buy at an affordable, fair-market value price, but convince the bank it was worth much more because of the neighbourhood it was in.

The bank, which relies on a software program to determine house prices by neighbourhood, claims it would end up providing a grossly inflated mortgage, and the ringleaders would pocket the difference.

To carry out the alleged scheme, the bank claims masterminds would recruit what's known in fraud parlance as a "straw buyer." For a payment of $2,000 to $8,000, these straw buyers, mostly new immigrants, would allow their name to be used to obtain the mortgage on the house.

According to the court documents, the ringleaders allegedly created fake, inflated wage and net income documents for the straw buyers to make them appear richer than they were.

Lawyers, who are alleged to have been in on the scheme, would then produce the necessary legal documents for the house sale. Seventeen lawyers have been named in the bank's lawsuit.
House nets $180,000

In one case, a house in the Bearspaw district of Calgary was bought for nearly $900,000 and in three years, its value was inflated to $2.3 million, a profit of $1.4 million for the alleged fraudsters. An Edmonton house is alleged to have netted the scheme nearly $180,000.

During its investigation, bank investigators seized records that showed millions of dollars from the alleged scheme have been transferred to such countries as Lebanon, India, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Pakistan.

The Bank of Montreal said it conducted the investigation and filed the lawsuit for two reasons.

"One was to recover as much as possible of what was taken from the bank from the fraud," Ralph Marranca, the bank's spokesman told the CBC on Tuesday.

"And secondly was to send a very strong message to fraudsters and anyone who might contemplate something like this that the bank will pursue this very aggressively and will not tolerate fraud."

Other banks don't appear to be as aggressive in their approach, even though documents indicate they may have been targeted too. Bank of Montreal investigators found documents that showed one Calgary management company had 150 suspect mortgages from 16 different financial institutions.

Rosen said this alleged fraud illustrates how weak and ineffective the controls are in our banking system.

"To me the most exasperating part of our business is we are not doing what we are supposed to be doing," he said. "We are kidding ourselves that we have good systems, because we don't."
PS spell checker is wrong. Neighbourhood IS spelt with a 'u'! . Damned yankees screwing with the English language.
The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6906|London, England
I didn't see anything in that article about AQ/Terrorists or anything like that... how the hell did you conclude that a Canadian bank is funding AQ from that article.
Stubbee
Religions Hate Facts, Questions and Doubts
+223|7028|Reality

Mekstizzle wrote:

I didn't see anything in that article about AQ/Terrorists or anything like that... how the hell did you conclude that a Canadian bank is funding AQ from that article.
Really? You don't think it is a possibility? It isn't much of a stretch tbh. It isn't pc to say something about AQ without more proof.

The money is going to
Lebanon, India, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Pakistan.
and not swiss or cayman islands. I will bet shariah banks.

The names on the list in the photo are not Irish, German, ...., Hispanic, Russian.

Charging/paying interest is against shariah thus making defrauding western banking icing on the cake. Actually more like Islamic justice i.e. taking away 'prohibited' money from the decadent non-muslims.

I will bet that when non-shariah banks in other countries with similar banking systems (i.e Commonwealth) check their mortgages they find an identical pattern.
The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7001
So if you're muslim you're not allow to invest in anything? ok racist man.

Btw theres something against this already, it's called the UNSC Consolidation list, forbidding any entity or persons to directly fund the Taliban or Al Qaeda.

And the article didn't mention one thing about AQ or Taliban. The Middle East has banks and ALL banks are connected globally because you know it's a global economy. Dutch and German banks got fucked over by mortgage assets sold by Goldman Sachs.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6906|London, England
Looks more like elaborate fraud to me (and the bank being inept). There's no use in assuming AQ or terrorism or revenge against non-Sharia law or any of that. With your little unwarranted 'PC' remark there, in combination with your lulz thread title. I'm gonna go ahead and say you should put the Daily Mail down for a few days.

Seriously, you can't even talk to certain people these days without them jumping on the "omg pc" bandwagon, lol

Does it make you feel like a rebel or something
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6935

Biggest assumption ever drawn from an article on BF2s?
Stubbee
Religions Hate Facts, Questions and Doubts
+223|7028|Reality

Cybargs wrote:

So if you're muslim you're not allow to invest in anything? ok racist man.

Btw theres something against this already, it's called the UNSC Consolidation list, forbidding any entity or persons to directly fund the Taliban or Al Qaeda.

And the article didn't mention one thing about AQ or Taliban. The Middle East has banks and ALL banks are connected globally because you know it's a global economy. Dutch and German banks got fucked over by mortgage assets sold by Goldman Sachs.
I did NOT say muslims are not allowed to invest in something. Muslims can invest all they want but they assume the risk equally with the lendee.

Shariah law FORBIDS the charging of or paying of interest. Money is not allowed to 'make' money. I suggest you read about Islamic banking practices.
Shariah banks are not forbidden to do business with non-shariah banks although I would bet some do not out of principle.

@mek and Cybargs

OK would changing the title to 'Canadian bank UNKNOWINGLY funding al-Qaeda?' be less lulzy and more accurate for you? Serious thread dudes.

Also yes it was an elaborate fraud. And yes the bank was inept. but how does that preclude it being possible that the 'profits' of the scheme are not being controlled by al-Qaeda? It may be that it is just a criminal affair but then again it could be more than that.

as for the PC comment, it was to address your contention that the story doesn't mention AQ or terrorism therefore it can't be possible that they are involved in any way. Really? It never crossed you mind that radical, non-Muslim-hating Muslims, who deplore anything associated with western society could conceive of a plan to take from one of the pillars of western society (i.e. bank) monies that shariah deem to be illegal and use said funds to further their insane jihad? They do the same fucking thing with drugs ffs! Shariah forbids the use of narcotics and yet Muslims the world over cultivate poppies. Why cultivate something they are forbidden to use? al-Qaeda pays them and then sells the stuff to the decadent non-Muslims to help corrupt their society yada yada yada.

If you really can't see the possibility, then it is time for you to stop inspecting your colon.
The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6756
the CIA funded al-qaeda, where's the fucking controversy in this thread.

i don't get it.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Stubbee
Religions Hate Facts, Questions and Doubts
+223|7028|Reality
are they funding them now?

Last edited by Stubbee (2010-05-05 11:46:01)

The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'
SEREMAKER
BABYMAKIN EXPERT √
+2,187|6854|Mountains of NC

is their that much stock in maple syrup
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6507|teh FIN-land

Stubbee wrote:

are they funding them now?
No they're funding some other groups who will then turn on their funders and allow us to go to war against them in a few years time thus preserving the raison d'etre of the US's industrial-military complex, obviously.
Stubbee
Religions Hate Facts, Questions and Doubts
+223|7028|Reality

ruisleipa wrote:

Stubbee wrote:

are they funding them now?
No they're funding some other groups who will then turn on their funders and allow us to go to war against them in a few years time thus preserving the raison d'etre of the US's industrial-military complex, obviously.
sad but true
The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Uzique wrote:

the CIA funded al-qaeda, where's the fucking controversy in this thread.

i don't get it.
Wrong. The CIA did NOT fund Al-Qaeda. They funded the Mujahedeen. Some of which joined AQ (which didn't form until after the Afghan War ended), some of which joined the Taliban when they moved into Afghanistan, some of which went to various warlords and fought with/against them during the years of civil war that followed, some of which went home to their families.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX
Some of which BECAME AQ. Same group, just a name change. CIA funded AQ.
Fuck Israel
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

Some of which BECAME AQ. Same group, just a name change. CIA funded AQ.
Clearly you didn't even read what I wrote. No. They didn't.

That's like saying the US government funded the Unabomber because Ted Kaczynski went to college on federal student loans before he became the Unabomber.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX
Its not the same at all, the CIA funded a loose militia - some of whom changed direction at a later stage.
The federal govt did not give the Unabomber guns, cash, explosives and satellite phones IIRC.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-05-07 05:53:26)

Fuck Israel
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

Its not the same at all, the CIA funded a loose militia - some of whom changed direction at a later stage.
The federal govt did not give the Unabomber guns, cash, explosives and satellite phones IIRC.
The logic is the same--faulty.

Just because some of the muj that were funded by the CIA in the 70-80s decided to join AQ in the 90s--well after the CIA stopped funding them--does not mean that the CIA funded AQ. In fact, quite the opposite. When the US government stopped funding the muj abruptly after the Soviets pulled out, it exacerbated the tribal infighting in Afghanistan due to the power vacuum created.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX
CIA funding, weapons and expertise ended up with AQ.
Good enough?
Fuck Israel
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

CIA funding, weapons and expertise ended up with AQ.
Good enough?
People who had been trained by the CIA ended up with AQ. Not funding. Oh, so did weapons and expertise from the Soviets.

They (weapons and expertise--some also from the Soviets) also ended up with the Northern Alliance and any number of other groups that sided against AQ's friends the Taliban.

So, no--it's not good enough. Your argument still fails.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX
1. CIA funding, weapons and expertise ended up with AQ.
2. Soviet funding, weapons and expertise ended up with AQ.

2 does not cancel 1, 1 is still true.
Fuck Israel
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5522|Cleveland, Ohio
wasnt really al-q back then
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

1. CIA funding, weapons and expertise ended up with AQ.
2. Soviet funding, weapons and expertise ended up with AQ.

2 does not cancel 1, 1 is still true.
The point you miss is that neither one's funding ended up with AQ. The funding was long gone by the time AQ was created. The weapons stay around a long time (most being Soviet equipment) and expertise lasts as long as people do.

So...your (and Uzique's) argument regarding CIA funding AQ still fails
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6992|67.222.138.85
They are particularly pissed because we aren't funding them anymore, and haven't been since the early 90s.

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