BF2S Forums Talk about irony: the Toyota Camry is more American than any "US" car

Mekstizzle wrote:

why do you think the US wants mcdonalds and pizza hut in all the countries and always wants to open new markets sometimes by force if necessary,.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Toyota are pretty smart, they're 5-10 years ahead of the curve instead of 5-10 behind like GM.

They have huge fuel efficiency credits in the bank, and when the inevitable trend back to 'Buy American' happens they can say 'Toyota No. 1!' with a straight face.

mikkel wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Toyota are pretty smart, they're 5-10 years ahead of the curve instead of 5-10 behind like GM.

They have huge fuel efficiency credits in the bank, and when the inevitable trend back to 'Buy American' happens they can say 'Toyota No. 1!' with a straight face.

GM makes quite a few relatively fuel efficient cars. In fact on average Chevrolet cars are more fuel efficient than Toyota.

http://i41.tinypic.com/350umwk.jpg

To be fair, as far as I know, SUVs and other vehicle classes that are low mileage by nature make up a much bigger part of Toyota's lineup than they do of Chevrolet's. I'm assuming that your list draws on all vehicles in the manufacturers U.S. lineup, which doesn't really give an accurate apples-to-apples comparison.

CAFE changes enacted by the 110th Congress (The Energy Independence and Security Act P.L. 110-140, H.R. 6), instructed NHTSA to establish a credit trading and transferring scheme to allow manufacturers to transfer credits between categories, as well as sell them to other manufacturers or non-manufacturers. In addition, the period over which credits could be carried forward was extended from three years to five. Traded or transferred credits may not be used to meet the minimum standard in the domestic passenger car fleet, however they may be used to meet the `attribute standard'. This latter allowance has drawn criticism from the UAW which fears it will lead manufacturers to increase the importation of small cars to offset shortfalls in the domestic market.

These new flexibilities were implemented by regulation on March 23, 2009 in the Final Rule for 2011 Model Year Passenger Cars and Light Trucks.

Calculations using official CAFE data, and the newly proposed credit trading flexibility contained in the September 28, 2009 Notice of Proposed Rulemaking show that ninety-eight percent of the benefit derived from just the cross fleet credit trading provision flows to Toyota. According to these calculations 75% of the benefit from the two new CAFE credit trading provisions, cross fleet trading and 5-year carry-forward, falls to foreign manufacturers. Toyota can use the provision to avoid or reduce compliance on average by 0.69 mpg per year through 2020,

The estimated value of the CAFE exemption gained by Toyota is $2.5 billion; Honda’s benefit is worth $0.8 billion, and Nissan’s benefit is valued at $0.9 billion in reduced CAFE compliance costs. Foreign companies gained $5.5 billion in benefits compared with the $1.8 billion that went to the Detroit Three.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-04-28 19:04:46)

mikkel wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

mikkel wrote:

To be fair, as far as I know, SUVs and other vehicle classes that are low mileage by nature make up a much bigger part of Toyota's lineup than they do of Chevrolet's. I'm assuming that your list draws on all vehicles in the manufacturers U.S. lineup, which doesn't really give an accurate apples-to-apples comparison.

Does it? I've never heard that. Apparently Toyota doesn't give you as many options. Chevy also makes plenty of SUV's. .. and if most Chevy vehicles aren't SUV's isn't that a good thing?

Really it doesn't matter. No longer can it be said that American car manufacturers aren't at least trying to sell fuel efficiency. That's the point here.

You're absolutely right that it would be wrong to call American car manufacturers out on fuel efficiency in the American market. Interestingly, I went through the vehicles in the lineups on the websites of the respective companies. Omitting hybrids and the Corvette (both to the benefit of Chevrolet), the numbers came out pretty interesting. The average combined MPG for Toyota vehicles is 28.5 for cars, 20.7 for SUVs, and 20 for trucks, compared to Chevrolet's 27.4 for cars, 22 for SUVs, and 19.3 for trucks. Separated by category, the numbers do favour Toyota very slightly, but it's definitely fair to say that the two are pretty even.

JohnG@lt wrote:

mikkel wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Does it? I've never heard that. Apparently Toyota doesn't give you as many options. Chevy also makes plenty of SUV's. .. and if most Chevy vehicles aren't SUV's isn't that a good thing?

Really it doesn't matter. No longer can it be said that American car manufacturers aren't at least trying to sell fuel efficiency. That's the point here.

You're absolutely right that it would be wrong to call American car manufacturers out on fuel efficiency in the American market. Interestingly, I went through the vehicles in the lineups on the websites of the respective companies. Omitting hybrids and the Corvette (both to the benefit of Chevrolet), the numbers came out pretty interesting. The average combined MPG for Toyota vehicles is 28.5 for cars, 20.7 for SUVs, and 20 for trucks, compared to Chevrolet's 27.4 for cars, 22 for SUVs, and 19.3 for trucks. Separated by category, the numbers do favour Toyota very slightly, but it's definitely fair to say that the two are pretty even.

Now, conduct a survey on how many issues car owners had with their Chevy right around the 100,000 mile mark compared to Toyota drivers. My Camaro had so many niggling little problems that I eventually just dumped it in a parking lot and let them tow it away.