Amazing how no one bats an eye at the fact that American companies are making a lot of money setting up shop inside other countries yet one individual crosses our border for peanuts and all hell breaks loose.west-phoenix-az wrote:
It's true that I want less government, but one thing I expect from the government is border protection.
illegals seeking peanuts can fuck off back to Mexico
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Here is a little known fact amongst liberals, companies are not in the business of providing jobs, they are in business to make money. they hire employees that cost them less than their production brings into a company. With unions artifically inflating the value of a workers contribution to a company and demanding outragous compensation for their actual worth or value to a company, I have no problem with a company seeking employees elsewhere.rawls2 wrote:
Amazing how no one bats an eye at the fact that American companies are making a lot of money setting up shop inside other countries yet one individual crosses our border for peanuts and all hell breaks loose.west-phoenix-az wrote:
It's true that I want less government, but one thing I expect from the government is border protection.
Also iti s all legal. ILLEGAL immigrantion however, is not.
we need to merge the execution and firing squad thread with this onem3thod wrote:
illegals seeking peanuts can fuck off back to Mexico
Tu Stultus Es
We need you to stop being a cryer.
For a soldier you sure whine a moan often.
I thought being military manned you up some.
For a soldier you sure whine a moan often.
I thought being military manned you up some.
Well... I suppose that could work. We would definitely need to cut back on several entitlement programs beforehand.rawls2 wrote:
Meh...it costs an illegal anywhere from 2k-5k to get "smuggled" into the US. Open the borders, sell citizenship for $2,500 a pop, presto.....were on our way towards economic recovery.
See, I'm not saying that these immigrants would necessarily use more entitlement spending per person than people already here, but you have several x-factors.
First of all, since the majority of people taking advantage of this would be coming from Mexico, you have to take into account how poor that country really is. America does afford these people the opportunity to rise in wealth legally and illegally through the work that is available, but they are also coming from a much lower standard of living on average. So the poverty line would need to be redefined.
Secondly, depressions of wages in certain areas would have a gradual effect on other industries as well. This was seen historically during the early 1900s. When factory workers were being imported by the millions from Europe, wages fell somewhat for those jobs. This spread to other areas, since the cost of living also fell.
Also, we'd need to get rid of the minimum wage, so that legal workers wouldn't get undercut by illegals. Unless we do that, there would still be an incentive for some people to remain illegals for the few low paying jobs they can get.
We'd also need to cut back on SS and Medicare, and we'd probably have to scrap any intentions of moving towards an NHS. This open door policy would only allow the economy to thrive in an extremely competitive and market-driven environment.
Other adaptations to consider would involve legalizing and taxing pot, and using RICO laws to pursue groups like MS-13. We'd also have to revolutionize our education systems. If things come to this point, we will have no choice but to truly be a bilingual nation. Everyone will need to be reasonably proficient in both English and Spanish.
I just picked a random Arizona music store and made a purchase.
Please consider visiting Arizona. I was in Tombstone over New Years, we visited Casa Grande and a state park with a cave tour ( name escapes me ).
All the politicians barking that they are going to cancell contracts with Arizona companies, saying don't drive through Arizona etc. can all fuck off and die.
Please consider visiting Arizona. I was in Tombstone over New Years, we visited Casa Grande and a state park with a cave tour ( name escapes me ).
All the politicians barking that they are going to cancell contracts with Arizona companies, saying don't drive through Arizona etc. can all fuck off and die.
I've heard Sedona is nice.ATG wrote:
I just picked a random Arizona music store and made a purchase.
Please consider visiting Arizona. I was in Tombstone over New Years, we visited Casa Grande and a state park with a cave tour ( name escapes me ).
All the politicians barking that they are going to cancell contracts with Arizona companies, saying don't drive through Arizona etc. can all fuck off and die.
Bisbee was cool.
The food there was great. Trippy mining town.
The food there was great. Trippy mining town.
Obviously that lady (and many others) haven't read the text of the law.lowing wrote:
I just heard on the radio a point of view that has given me pause and making me second guess my position.
A lady was being inteviewed and made the comment that for all of us conservatives that are screaming for less govt. Nothing stands out as big brother keeping their thumb on its citizens as being stopped by govt. and forced to produce papers....Can't really deny that.
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070h.pdf
Section 1. Intent
The legislature finds that there is a compelling interest in the cooperative enforcement of federal immigration laws throughout all of Arizona. The legislature declares that the intent of this act is to make attrition through enforcement the public policy of all state and local government agencies in Arizona. The provisions of this act are intended to work together to discourage and deter the unlawful entry and presence of aliens and economic activity by persons unlawfully present in the United States.
So the cops can't just go up to someone and say "Papuhz pleez".Sec. 2. Title 11, chapter 7, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by adding article 8, to read:
ARTICLE 8. ENFORCEMENT OF IMMIGRATION LAWS 11-1051. Cooperation and assistance in enforcement of immigration laws; indemnification
A. NO OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY LIMIT OR RESTRICT THE ENFORCEMENT OF FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS TO LESS THAN THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY FEDERAL LAW.
B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON, EXCEPT IF THE DETERMINATION MAY HINDER OR OBSTRUCT AN INVESTIGATION. ANY PERSON WHO IS ARRESTED SHALL HAVE THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS DETERMINED BEFORE THE PERSON IS RELEASED. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c). A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS SUBSECTION EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY THE UNITED STATES OR ARIZONA CONSTITUTION. A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL IDENTIFICATION.
4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Jumping into this cos something caught me eye
"Where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien"
"When practicable"
"May not consider race"
It's all just words, in reality none of this applies. How would you enforce it? Unless you made police officers report and document every single person they stopped and asked them for papers, stating why they stopped them, what made them suspicious etc etc... that would probably cut down on the BS profiling and annoyance and such people are going to expect.
Also, I'm not even sure of if we have something similar here. I wouldn't be surprised if police officers in the UK would already be allowed to stop, search and ask for proof of legal residence whenever they feel like. Saying that, the problem of specifically "illegal" immigration here is much smaller than in the US. We don't have swathes of people who are staying here illegally. So it's a different situation for the cops. It's much smaller so you can have specialised units taking the responsibility instead of regular cops stopping random people.
Personally, cops don't need any of this shit anyway. If they want to stop and ID someone they will find a way using existing laws in zero time. I'm sure that already applies to the US too. Cops are cops. This law probably creates unnecessary controversy and also probably widens the gap between cops and community.
It has alot of words saying this and that, but in reality they seem to be able to do just that.So the cops can't just go up to someone and say "Papuhz pleez".
"Where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien"
"When practicable"
"May not consider race"
It's all just words, in reality none of this applies. How would you enforce it? Unless you made police officers report and document every single person they stopped and asked them for papers, stating why they stopped them, what made them suspicious etc etc... that would probably cut down on the BS profiling and annoyance and such people are going to expect.
Also, I'm not even sure of if we have something similar here. I wouldn't be surprised if police officers in the UK would already be allowed to stop, search and ask for proof of legal residence whenever they feel like. Saying that, the problem of specifically "illegal" immigration here is much smaller than in the US. We don't have swathes of people who are staying here illegally. So it's a different situation for the cops. It's much smaller so you can have specialised units taking the responsibility instead of regular cops stopping random people.
Personally, cops don't need any of this shit anyway. If they want to stop and ID someone they will find a way using existing laws in zero time. I'm sure that already applies to the US too. Cops are cops. This law probably creates unnecessary controversy and also probably widens the gap between cops and community.
yep, good post mek.
the legislative and codified system of law in every country is applied at street-level by humans: ego-driven, arrogant wankers high with the empowerment that the 'special role' within society of law-enforcement grants them. even on a subconscious and subliminal level, a police officer could approach a person based on ethnicity or race and apply the law in a non-objective and bias fashion-- even the most consummate professional could be guilty of this. on a psychological and sociological level, there is a fundamental flaw in having people apply law the strives to be COMPLETELY OBJECTIVE and FAIR: but i suppose that's an issue found throughout the legal system, e.g. in jury cases and judgements also. admit it: the only way this law is going to avoid any form of racial profiling is if you develop a robot to go out and enforce it. "cops are cops".
the legislative and codified system of law in every country is applied at street-level by humans: ego-driven, arrogant wankers high with the empowerment that the 'special role' within society of law-enforcement grants them. even on a subconscious and subliminal level, a police officer could approach a person based on ethnicity or race and apply the law in a non-objective and bias fashion-- even the most consummate professional could be guilty of this. on a psychological and sociological level, there is a fundamental flaw in having people apply law the strives to be COMPLETELY OBJECTIVE and FAIR: but i suppose that's an issue found throughout the legal system, e.g. in jury cases and judgements also. admit it: the only way this law is going to avoid any form of racial profiling is if you develop a robot to go out and enforce it. "cops are cops".
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
But so what? Why are we OK with Illegals taking over our border towns?
I was watching the news and some 14 year old twit was saying it was just about being brown. Meanwhile I"m sure all the brown people want the gate security at the airport checking the really muslim guy.. Well this is one of those things that only Illegals seem to be pissed about, all the people I know who came from other country's don't want the illegals here either.
I was watching the news and some 14 year old twit was saying it was just about being brown. Meanwhile I"m sure all the brown people want the gate security at the airport checking the really muslim guy.. Well this is one of those things that only Illegals seem to be pissed about, all the people I know who came from other country's don't want the illegals here either.
it's not that simple, don't be stupid.
illegals don't 'want' to be illegals either; people don't want to leave their countries and homes willingly- it's precipitated out of economic or social obligation. maybe if you guys didn't fuck central and south america so much with your lovely banana republics, and helped to create some viable, fair economic-trade unions rather than exploitation and capitalist greed, then you wouldn't have so many hopping over the rio grande to enjoy 10x the wage-rate.
illegals don't 'want' to be illegals either; people don't want to leave their countries and homes willingly- it's precipitated out of economic or social obligation. maybe if you guys didn't fuck central and south america so much with your lovely banana republics, and helped to create some viable, fair economic-trade unions rather than exploitation and capitalist greed, then you wouldn't have so many hopping over the rio grande to enjoy 10x the wage-rate.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Sedona is v v v nice.Turquoise wrote:
I've heard Sedona is nice.ATG wrote:
I just picked a random Arizona music store and made a purchase.
Please consider visiting Arizona. I was in Tombstone over New Years, we visited Casa Grande and a state park with a cave tour ( name escapes me ).
All the politicians barking that they are going to cancell contracts with Arizona companies, saying don't drive through Arizona etc. can all fuck off and die.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Hmmmm maybe it's they're own faults. It's not like we have the doctors and the educated people jumping the fence, it's the convicts and the riff raff?Uzique wrote:
it's not that simple, don't be stupid.
illegals don't 'want' to be illegals either; people don't want to leave their countries and homes willingly- it's precipitated out of economic or social obligation. maybe if you guys didn't fuck central and south america so much with your lovely banana republics, and helped to create some viable, fair economic-trade unions rather than exploitation and capitalist greed, then you wouldn't have so many hopping over the rio grande to enjoy 10x the wage-rate.
Actually, the local cops have been told to not do the feds job, prior to this. A cop would pull somebody over who was speeding, he would write a ticket to a person who was using a stolen i.d. who would never appear in court.Mekstizzle wrote:
Personally, cops don't need any of this shit anyway. If they want to stop and ID someone they will find a way using existing laws in zero time. .
Driving without a license is a crime.
Driving without insurance is a crime.
Identity theft is a crime.
I agree, cops don't need a shit system like this. Arizona, Texas and soon Utah are simply pointing out that the epic failure of the feds is no longer acceptable.
The SLCPD’s own data shows that in 2008 44.25% of the crime in Salt Lake City was committed by Hispanics. To verify this, I contacted BCI which had the total crime in Salt Lake City as 46.78% with 81.82% of the murders and 75% of rapes being committed by Hispanics (see attached spreadsheet).
http://steveu.com/blog/2009/07/illegal- … civil.html
What that means is that we now have a crisis that is ripping this country apart.
81.82% of the homicides in Utah, where I am moving, are committed by hispanic illegal aliens.
This is a fucking scourge and if the feds position is that all people on u.s. soil are citizens then, shit is going to explode and blood will run in the streets.
While I enjoy the discourse with my European brethren I'd suggest that if you don't like what is happening, mind your own business. Look away until it's over. You guys are good at that.
you're mental.ATG wrote:
Actually, the local cops have been told to not do the feds job, prior to this. A cop would pull somebody over who was speeding, he would write a ticket to a person who was using a stolen i.d. who would never appear in court.Mekstizzle wrote:
Personally, cops don't need any of this shit anyway. If they want to stop and ID someone they will find a way using existing laws in zero time. .
Driving without a license is a crime.
Driving without insurance is a crime.
Identity theft is a crime.
I agree, cops don't need a shit system like this. Arizona, Texas and soon Utah are simply pointing out that the epic failure of the feds is no longer acceptable.
The SLCPD’s own data shows that in 2008 44.25% of the crime in Salt Lake City was committed by Hispanics. To verify this, I contacted BCI which had the total crime in Salt Lake City as 46.78% with 81.82% of the murders and 75% of rapes being committed by Hispanics (see attached spreadsheet).
http://steveu.com/blog/2009/07/illegal- … civil.html
What that means is that we now have a crisis that is ripping this country apart.
81.82% of the homicides in Utah, where I am moving, are committed by hispanic illegal aliens.
This is a fucking scourge and if the feds position is that all people on u.s. soil are citizens then, shit is going to explode and blood will run in the streets.
While I enjoy the discourse with my European brethren I'd suggest that if you don't like what is happening, mind your own business. Look away until it's over. You guys are good at that.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
You been smoking again Alex?FatherTed wrote:
you're mental.ATG wrote:
Actually, the local cops have been told to not do the feds job, prior to this. A cop would pull somebody over who was speeding, he would write a ticket to a person who was using a stolen i.d. who would never appear in court.Mekstizzle wrote:
Personally, cops don't need any of this shit anyway. If they want to stop and ID someone they will find a way using existing laws in zero time. .
Driving without a license is a crime.
Driving without insurance is a crime.
Identity theft is a crime.
I agree, cops don't need a shit system like this. Arizona, Texas and soon Utah are simply pointing out that the epic failure of the feds is no longer acceptable.
The SLCPD’s own data shows that in 2008 44.25% of the crime in Salt Lake City was committed by Hispanics. To verify this, I contacted BCI which had the total crime in Salt Lake City as 46.78% with 81.82% of the murders and 75% of rapes being committed by Hispanics (see attached spreadsheet).
http://steveu.com/blog/2009/07/illegal- … civil.html
What that means is that we now have a crisis that is ripping this country apart.
81.82% of the homicides in Utah, where I am moving, are committed by hispanic illegal aliens.
This is a fucking scourge and if the feds position is that all people on u.s. soil are citizens then, shit is going to explode and blood will run in the streets.
While I enjoy the discourse with my European brethren I'd suggest that if you don't like what is happening, mind your own business. Look away until it's over. You guys are good at that.
Are you guys blind to the notion that we're not getting these hard working, educated people that are just looking for a fair shot in the U.S?
The people who are coming over are living in shanty towns up and down our land and equivalent to Gypsies. They work our food industry jobs with third world country ailments, they get weapons and rob or sell drugs. They are not these law abiding citizens who just want to work hard for low wages. Why can't you understand that?
The people who are coming over are living in shanty towns up and down our land and equivalent to Gypsies. They work our food industry jobs with third world country ailments, they get weapons and rob or sell drugs. They are not these law abiding citizens who just want to work hard for low wages. Why can't you understand that?
At what point does apathy and sympathy turn to aggression?
Also waiting for someone saying, it's not the illegals fault that we're not providing them with enough jobs.
Also waiting for someone saying, it's not the illegals fault that we're not providing them with enough jobs.
Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2010-04-28 08:35:11)
It's called illegal immigration for a reason. I'm pretty fucking sure if people overstayed on their visa in a foreign country, or began working without a work permit, they'd get fucking deported too. NAFTA actually allowed A SHIT LOAD Mexicans come to the states to find a job and vice versa. Most illegal immigrants just drive to the border and go through immigration. It's not like they can fucking deny entry on arbitrary grounds (NAFTA also provided freer movement of people).cpt.fass1 wrote:
Are you guys blind to the notion that we're not getting these hard working, educated people that are just looking for a fair shot in the U.S?
The people who are coming over are living in shanty towns up and down our land and equivalent to Gypsies. They work our food industry jobs with third world country ailments, they get weapons and rob or sell drugs. They are not these law abiding citizens who just want to work hard for low wages. Why can't you understand that?
Well if we busted Al Capone for tax evasion. Why don't we just set up stings by all the home depot and arrest the people and the illegals for the same thing?
Hey a bunch of guys standing around looking for work, then a truck pulls up, they hop in = Probably cause. Deport them, don't give them the rights that U.S. Citizens have, no jail, no tickets just deport them. We do this to prostitutes, why not take a harder stance on the illegals?
Also any child that is in school, that is not from a tax paying person, has to pay for the education. We shouldn't allow a free ride to anyone, I pay an arm and a leg for everyones children in Public School when do I get my break?
Hey a bunch of guys standing around looking for work, then a truck pulls up, they hop in = Probably cause. Deport them, don't give them the rights that U.S. Citizens have, no jail, no tickets just deport them. We do this to prostitutes, why not take a harder stance on the illegals?
Also any child that is in school, that is not from a tax paying person, has to pay for the education. We shouldn't allow a free ride to anyone, I pay an arm and a leg for everyones children in Public School when do I get my break?
Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2010-04-28 08:49:58)
ask what makes them the convicts. ask what has created an underclass of down and outs in mexico- economically and socially.cpt.fass1 wrote:
Hmmmm maybe it's they're own faults. It's not like we have the doctors and the educated people jumping the fence, it's the convicts and the riff raff?Uzique wrote:
it's not that simple, don't be stupid.
illegals don't 'want' to be illegals either; people don't want to leave their countries and homes willingly- it's precipitated out of economic or social obligation. maybe if you guys didn't fuck central and south america so much with your lovely banana republics, and helped to create some viable, fair economic-trade unions rather than exploitation and capitalist greed, then you wouldn't have so many hopping over the rio grande to enjoy 10x the wage-rate.
people are not racially or nationally predisposed to crime and moral anomy. they are products of their environments.
it's like saying the crime and drug-prevalence in the New York projects is nothing but the fault of the black people there, that obviously love living in crack-dens and revel in violence.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
We spend all that money deporting them and then what's going to stop them from coming back?cpt.fass1 wrote:
Well if we busted Al Capone for tax evasion. Why don't we just set up stings by all the home depot and arrest the people and the illegals for the same thing?
Hey a bunch of guys standing around looking for work, then a truck pulls up, they hop in = Probably cause. Deport them, don't give them the rights that U.S. Citizens have, no jail, no tickets just deport them. We do this to prostitutes, why not take a harder stance on the illegals?
Also any child that is in school, that is not from a tax paying person, has to pay for the education. We shouldn't allow a free ride to anyone, I pay an arm and a leg for everyones children in Public School when do I get my break?
Nothing.
Money well fucking spent right there.