Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6960|Canberra, AUS
This may be of interest to some of you. Especially the tinfoileers amongst us (ATG, Mitch...), and the more philosophical, but yeah. No I didn't write it, a friend of mine did.

I do warn you... it's very long, but fascinating nonetheless. It's about morality and freedom.

---
---
---

To whomever this may interest/concern:

This may well have gone under everyone’s radar, but about half a month ago, the world made a giant leap towards totalitarianism and the abolition of freedom.

In particular (as can be read at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8593748.stm I believe), an experiment was conducted where people were asked to make morality-based decisions, either with or without a small electromagnetic impulse applied to their head beforehand. It was found that the effects were significant;

”In one scenario participants were asked how acceptable it was for a man to let his girlfriend walk across a bridge he knew to be unsafe.

After receiving a 500 millisecond magnetic pulse to the scalp, the volunteers delivered verdicts based on outcome rather than moral principle.

If the girlfriend made it across the bridge safely, her boyfriend was not seen as having done anything wrong.

In effect, they were unable to make moral judgments that require an understanding of other people's intentions.”

At this point, I’d be tempted to direct people to http://wordincarnate.wordpress.com/the- … tarianism/ but it is indeed a long read, and parts of it have a very strong fundamentalist Christian bias. However, although it is a fascinating article, I shall spare people the time and effort of reading it, and instead quote from it later on.

I believe that morality does not apply to science, and in particular knowledge itself, in the way it does to other things. That is to say, I believe there is no information that it is sinful to know. In general, the pursuit of knowledge is something holy. At this time, it should be mentioned that certainly, the manner in which some research is conducted may well be immoral, but the knowledge it is intended to lead to is not. The way in which some knowledge may be used may be immoral, but again, there is no intrinsic property of simply knowing something that is morally wrong.

There has been much said on this topic; a famous example is the Manhattan Project. The knowledge gained from it has transformed the world, and I cannot tell you if it was for better or worse. But rather, it is not so much the knowledge itself as much as the application of it. There are various opinions on whether dropping a nuclear bomb upon Japan in the ending stages of the Second World War was morally justifiable, and this has the inconvenient consequence of forcing us to consider whether, if the act was not morally justifiable, how much can the scientists working on the Manhattan Project be held accountable, given that they were/weren’t aware of what would arise from their research. Inevitably, there are many answers to this question and although they are most interesting, to discuss them would require a significant digression. The significance of this example is that it highlights the difference between what I consider to be the the morally neutral pursuit of knowledge, and the much less neutral application of it.

This in turn, relates to the matter at hand as follows; the research in question has been done. To be sure, it is fascinating. The disturbing issue, however, is, how amazingly easy it is to enslave the human mind. As Voltaire wrote: “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities”. This directly relates to the last line from the quotation from BBC news (“In effect, they were unable to make moral judgments that require an understanding of other people's intentions.”). An inability to understand is dangerous. Here we see both ends of the spectrum. Not only is intelligence dangerous (knowledge is power, power corrupts), but so is stupidity (how can we responsibly use that which we do not understand?). One could say we’re now so clever that we know how to make ourselves stupid. However, it would be wrong of me to rely on quotations to illustrate such issues (contrary to what many of my English teachers may have said), as can ironically be seen from the proverb “The devil quotes scripture for his own purpose”, however, I’d like to show something from the article I mentioned earlier;

“The word totalitarianism usually generates impressions of dictatorial systems which brutally crush civic freedoms and negate the humanity of their subjects in an effort to achieve complete control. Images of barbed wire, jack-boots and thought-control are conjured up in our minds. 20th century literature has given us some powerful works of fiction which suggest a variety of possible totalitarian futures: one thinks immediately of Orwell and Huxley. But the societies they described were very different from each other. Indeed, as in fiction, actual tyrant states can assume many masks. What should be discerned are the elements common to those governments that oppress their peoples.

...

The individual tyrant rarely looks like a monster in the beginning. He usually appears as a saviour of his people, though once he has attained power he will eventually show his hand—at root he merely wishes to accumulate as much power as possible in order to obtain an absolute security or glory for himself, and to enjoy it at any cost. This kind of tyrant is not difficult to identify, given enough time. When he runs out of gasoline or bullets or wheat the people cast him off, because he is a monster who looks like a monster. He has blown his cover. There is little depth to such men, for they exemplify “the banality of evil,” to borrow Hanna Arendt’s phrase.

More difficult to identify is the idealistic tyrant who expands his power in a sincere effort to protect what he considers to be the good of his subjects. He will reduce crime, balance the national budget, bring order and a measure of material plenty to the nation. He will surely labour to make a better citizen of the raw material of his subjects. There can be a reassuring sense of security in all this—in the beginning. We feel so much safer in a milieu of dependable public services and an ordered economy, though we would, perhaps, remain uneasy about trading away certain freedoms in exchange for them. But it is precisely the elimination of personal responsibility which is the new totalitarian’s ultimate goal, for this is what he sees as our fatal flaw.

...

Somewhere during the therapy there is a decisive transfer of power and responsibility. When this happens on a massive scale something is seriously amiss. There may not be brown-shirts and jackboots marching in the streets. No public book-burnings. No grotesque executions. In some cases there may even be no visible dictator, only a system or a social philosophy which permeates and controls everything. Indeed, the world may appear to be perfectly normal. The philosopher Josef Pieper points out that this is the most dangerous form of totalitarianism of all, almost impossible to throw off, because it never appears to be what, in fact, it is.”

I’m going to use this somewhat lengthy quote as the basis of my little spiel here. The inherent threat to the healthy function of society is not through this or that ideology, but rather, our own ability to succumb to authority. This is not to say that authority need be bad, but rather that we must manage it carefully. We’re now in the situation where people’s thoughts can be manipulated, though as I stated earlier, this tends not towards understanding the human mind as much as enslaving it. This has incredible potential for the exploitation of society in a way that isn’t entirely that different from that presented in The Matrix.

What we’ve seen is that there is a way to make people adopt an “end justifies the means” moral philosophy. I’m not here to state that such a philosophy is right or wrong, but simply that it is inherently subversive to “enforce” such a moral philosophy. Undermining the individual’s sense of right and wrong will surely cause society to reach a woeful state. To be fair, it’s not realistic to expect rivers to run red with the blood of innocents as Nazis ride dinosaurs through the streets of cities, but at the same time, it should be remembered that when right and wrong lose meaning, society won’t be able to tell between virtuous and insidious (assuming such concepts would still exist).

Ultimately, I suppose that although it is well and good that we’ve found out such things, we must realise that we’re playing with something we don’t understand very well here, and that for our own sake we must act with maturity, responsibility and wisdom. To do anything less would pose a risk to our society that I don’t think anyone can fully understand.

The prospect that I find most terrifying is that much like one may expect of an Orwellian world in the style of 1984, it is likely that when the oppression comes (if it isn’t already here), there will be no resistance.
I myself am still digesting it all. I do find it refreshing however that it is still possible to discuss totalitarianism and freedom etc. in a rational, scientific manner.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina
I would only correct this analysis in one small way...

Personal responsibility is somewhat of a misconception.  A lot of what governs our lives is out of our control -- whether by the government, the market, environment, or genetics.

There is enough uncertainty in the world that oppression cannot be simply defined as from a governmental tyrant.  Where there is a power vacuum, someone will fill it.

We like to think in terms of self-reliance and self-determination, but in reality, a lot of our lives is determined by the actions of others.

We depend on agribusinesses to provide us food.  We depend on law enforcement to keep us safe.  We depend on utility companies for things like electricity and running water.

In modern life, being interconnected is really more of what defines us than individualism or self-determination.  What you contribute to society is at least equally as important as self-fulfillment -- but it's often easy to lose sight of that via things like materialism and greed.

Oftentimes, our greatest oppressor is not so much in the form of government so much as it is in the form of our own flawed natures as we focus too much on short term desires and not enough on community.

Last edited by Turquoise (2010-04-16 23:52:15)

Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6951|NT, like Mick Dundee

Tis not very long really. Quite interesting though. My personal belief is we in the West are headed that way. Institutionalised enslavement by the system, not so much the government of the day.



Do people even deserve freedom?
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6960|Canberra, AUS

Flecco wrote:

Tis not very long really. Quite interesting though. My personal belief is we in the West are headed that way. Institutionalised enslavement by the system, not so much the government of the day.



Do people even deserve freedom?
My belief is that if such enslavement occurs, it will be self-inflicted, lifestyle/societal-based enslavement, not institutional.

And thus so much harder to recognize and remove.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6815|Global Command
" tinfoileers "???https://i15.tinypic.com/2nlr1fl.gif

To me, okay sure, that part of your statement may be in jest, or in the usual popular derision of some of the points I try to make but I would submit that if taken seriously, I would objectively conclude that you are already marching in lock step with the neo-dictatorship that your article talks about. I say that because all I have done is try and point out that we are heading for a dictatorial system. I haven't named the individual tyrant. I think it's rather mysterious as to exactly who is in control.
I think that there has been some evidence announced today that Goldman Sachs helped create the financial collapse. I do believe the charge is fraud in fact.



One main thing that identifies me as a conservative is that I do believe that government should be limited and small. It should adhere more strictly to The Constitution ( which needs more or less amendments ).


The things that are its ( the governments ) responsibility should be done professionally, frugally and when required, brutally.



Our government seems to be working in the exact opposite of what common sense would dictate would be in the best interests of the common man and the country itself. That suggests an ulterior motive.


So then one might ask " what is the motive behind the seemingly irrational actions of the government? "


I know many here have other priorities, and don't pay attention to details about politics. No problem.

I can see what is going on.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6951|NT, like Mick Dundee

Spark wrote:

Flecco wrote:

Tis not very long really. Quite interesting though. My personal belief is we in the West are headed that way. Institutionalised enslavement by the system, not so much the government of the day.



Do people even deserve freedom?
My belief is that if such enslavement occurs, it will be self-inflicted, lifestyle/societal-based enslavement, not institutional.

And thus so much harder to recognize and remove.
Self inflicted yes, but eventually written into the system as an institution.


Think the Firemen from Farenheit 451.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6951|NT, like Mick Dundee

Btw the linked article really is worth reading.



Yes it has a bit of Christian bias, but not a heavy one. The basic point of it stands, the homosexuality issue is just the provided example of what's happening.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6992|67.222.138.85
I don't understand how you can write so much but say so little. That is not to say that it is long, just wordy. I feel like it is an assignment to write about the morality of an article in the news, and provide a secondary source.

It's not the scientists fault for discovering the technology per se, but

evil governments rah rah usually don't hoist evil looking flags and tell everyone to stop thinking thoughts, they appeal to the masses with a "give me what you have and I'll do it for you approach", so

since only hindsight is 20/20, this technology could be very dangerous.

What did I miss?
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6960|Canberra, AUS

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

I don't understand how you can write so much but say so little. That is not to say that it is long, just wordy. I feel like it is an assignment to write about the morality of an article in the news, and provide a secondary source.

It's not the scientists fault for discovering the technology per se, but

evil governments rah rah usually don't hoist evil looking flags and tell everyone to stop thinking thoughts, they appeal to the masses with a "give me what you have and I'll do it for you approach", so

since only hindsight is 20/20, this technology could be very dangerous.

What did I miss?
it's wordy because it's not intended for something, it's just someone musing.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6280|Truthistan
Its interesting that our morality can be "turned" off by inducing temporary brain damage.
I've thought for some time that immorality, a lack of the ability to empathize with others, an inability to critically think, inability to cope with change, irrational hatred of other people because of their immutable characteristics... that those people might be suffering from some sort of physical brain defect be it from environmental things like lead or artifical hormones or even through the introduction of so many immunization. Its interesting that the article states that those parts of the brain are some of the last to develop... and in some people imo those abilities must be impaired or fail to develop. I know personally when I was in high school, thinking back now, I don't think I was capable of critical thinking or emphasizing with the others if it meant breaking with conventional thought or mob rule. and now that I think about it that mindset was really a survival mindset of someone trying to survive within the mob. Critical thinking wasn't really a skill I acquired until my early to mid 20's. And you know even today I see people who are older and should know better who are still blabbing and gabbing and gossiping and back stabbing just like they did in high school... and you think to yourself what a POS grow up already, but maybe they are incapable of doing just that.

Another experiment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment where people were willing to shock people to death if a person in authority told them to do perhaps captures some of that inability to critically think, or emphasize with others, or just shows a willingness to abdicate ones free will to a person in authority. I think the number of people willing to shock to lethal or near lethal levels was about 50%... that's pretty shocking (pun intended)

It makes you wonder how society can function if a large segment of society is so willing to throw away their free will to power brokers who are very eager to receive control over these people. How can a person who believes in free will and can critically think for themself overcome the mob who is told that a certain outcome stands for a moral right and that the mob should blindly support it.

The article raises a lot of questions... I watched a documentary about a lesbian woman who grew up conservtive christian and it was about her growing up, her coming to terms with being gay and the fallout with her family.... what struck me most was some of the statements about politics and free will where she made it really clear that the only act of free will that her family took was to abdicate all free will and to submit totally to the "teachings" and direction of the church which of course meant that they would never question what they were told and that they could only vote for one party (you can guess which one). And I thought how strange it was that in a society of individuals that's based on free will that the only act of free will taken by an individual would be to throw it away and to submit to an authority.

How is individuality supposed to survive when people seem incapable of exercising free will? Perhaps it is a physical brain defect as this experiment seems to indicate. Perhaps it can be cured?

Last edited by Diesel_dyk (2010-04-17 00:54:53)

Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6960|Canberra, AUS
I need more time to think about this but it's increasingly clear that individuality, free will, etc. are not aspects of human nature as concrete as we had once thought.

ATG wrote:

" tinfoileers "???http://i15.tinypic.com/2nlr1fl.gif

To me, okay sure, that part of your statement may be in jest, or in the usual popular derision of some of the points I try to make but I would submit that if taken seriously, I would objectively conclude that you are already marching in lock step with the neo-dictatorship that your article talks about. I say that because all I have done is try and point out that we are heading for a dictatorial system. I haven't named the individual tyrant. I think it's rather mysterious as to exactly who is in control.
I think that there has been some evidence announced today that Goldman Sachs helped create the financial collapse. I do believe the charge is fraud in fact.



One main thing that identifies me as a conservative is that I do believe that government should be limited and small. It should adhere more strictly to The Constitution ( which needs more or less amendments ).


The things that are its ( the governments ) responsibility should be done professionally, frugally and when required, brutally.



Our government seems to be working in the exact opposite of what common sense would dictate would be in the best interests of the common man and the country itself. That suggests an ulterior motive.


So then one might ask " what is the motive behind the seemingly irrational actions of the government? "


I know many here have other priorities, and don't pay attention to details about politics. No problem.

I can see what is going on.
Oh come on. I was joking.

Last edited by Spark (2010-04-17 01:04:35)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Turquoise wrote:

I would only correct this analysis in one small way...

Personal responsibility is somewhat of a misconception.  A lot of what governs our lives is out of our control -- whether by the government, the market, environment, or genetics.

There is enough uncertainty in the world that oppression cannot be simply defined as from a governmental tyrant.  Where there is a power vacuum, someone will fill it.

We like to think in terms of self-reliance and self-determination, but in reality, a lot of our lives is determined by the actions of others.

We depend on agribusinesses to provide us food.  We depend on law enforcement to keep us safe.  We depend on utility companies for things like electricity and running water.

In modern life, being interconnected is really more of what defines us than individualism or self-determination.  What you contribute to society is at least equally as important as self-fulfillment -- but it's often easy to lose sight of that via things like materialism and greed.

Oftentimes, our greatest oppressor is not so much in the form of government so much as it is in the form of our own flawed natures as we focus too much on short term desires and not enough on community.
You are right, we are inter-dependant. I am dependant on farmers, doctors, pilots, teachers, cops firemen etc and they are dependant on me ... No one is dependant on moochers, parasites, or the entitled or drug addicts. so if you don't mind I will support a society of positive contributors, and weed out negative contributors. Legalize drugs, for example....Smoke it long and deep hold it in, because the second you OD and thin out the herd, the better the rest of us will be.

I choose independence and I will let my positive, independent choice benefit my society, through the things I purchase and the people I choose to do business with. By you doing the same thing, IE choose to fly my airline, I benefit from your positve choices. This is how it is supposed to work.I will work for my family and my self, you do the same for your family, and independantly, we will enjoy the same positive society.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

You are right, we are inter-dependant. I am dependant on farmers, doctors, pilots, teachers, cops firemen etc and they are dependant on me ... No one is dependant on moochers, parasites, or the entitled or drug addicts. so if you don't mind I will support a society of positive contributors, and weed out negative contributors. Legalize drugs, for example....Smoke it long and deep hold it in, because the second you OD and thin out the herd, the better the rest of us will be.
Do you believe that all who become addicted are irredeemable?

lowing wrote:

I choose independence and I will let my positive, independent choice benefit my society, through the things I purchase and the people I choose to do business with. By you doing the same thing, IE choose to fly my airline, I benefit from your positve choices. This is how it is supposed to work.I will work for my family and my self, you do the same for your family, and independantly, we will enjoy the same positive society.
Most of society works this way, but to assume that reality is 100% like this is just blind.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

You are right, we are inter-dependant. I am dependant on farmers, doctors, pilots, teachers, cops firemen etc and they are dependant on me ... No one is dependant on moochers, parasites, or the entitled or drug addicts. so if you don't mind I will support a society of positive contributors, and weed out negative contributors. Legalize drugs, for example....Smoke it long and deep hold it in, because the second you OD and thin out the herd, the better the rest of us will be.
Do you believe that all who become addicted are irredeemable?

lowing wrote:

I choose independence and I will let my positive, independent choice benefit my society, through the things I purchase and the people I choose to do business with. By you doing the same thing, IE choose to fly my airline, I benefit from your positve choices. This is how it is supposed to work.I will work for my family and my self, you do the same for your family, and independantly, we will enjoy the same positive society.
Most of society works this way, but to assume that reality is 100% like this is just blind.
nope, I am saying it should not be my responsibility to redeem them. I have enough on my plate while making proper choices without supporting your fucked up choices on a purposeful journey toward self destruction.

I know what reality is, my point in this post still stands. IF we ALL took care of ourselves independantly, collectively, we will ALL benefit.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

nope, I am saying it should not be my responsibility to redeem them. I have enough on my plate while making proper choices without supporting your fucked up choices on a purposeful journey toward self destruction.
I'm not saying it is.  I'm saying it's a practical concession when living in a society.  It's not my responsibility to pay for costs of other people in our healthcare system, but I have to through insurance, for example.

lowing wrote:

I know what reality is, my point in this post still stands. IF we ALL took care of ourselves independantly, collectively, we will ALL benefit.
In an ideal world, yes.  In reality, some people need a little help along the way.

Last edited by Turquoise (2010-04-17 15:09:04)

lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

nope, I am saying it should not be my responsibility to redeem them. I have enough on my plate while making proper choices without supporting your fucked up choices on a purposeful journey toward self destruction.
I'm not saying it is.  I'm saying it's a practical concession when living in a society.  It's not my responsibility to pay for costs of other people in our healthcare system, but I have to through insurance, for example.

lowing wrote:

I know what reality is, my point in this post still stands. IF we ALL took care of ourselves independantly, collectively, we will ALL benefit.
In an ideal world, yes.  In reality, some people need a little help along the way.
No what is practical is to not knowingly start abusing drugs....you speak of practicality yet consistently fail to mention the impracticality of ones lack of personal responsibility. Hold them accountable, and maybe you will see some more practical decsion making instead of fostering the belief that they are entitled to a bailout by society whenever they fuck up.

You are correct, children, and the disabled sure could use some help along the way, not drug addicts, and not criminals, and not able bodied individuals who feel they are owed something in life.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

No what is practical is to not knowingly start abusing drugs....you speak of practicality yet consistently fail to mention the impracticality of ones lack of personal responsibility. Hold them accountable, and maybe you will see some more practical decsion making instead of fostering the belief that they are entitled to a bailout by society whenever they fuck up.
Several countries have tried that....  like Mexico.  How successful have they been?
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6975|Tampa Bay Florida
I'm writing a paper on Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan.  He basically argues that morality is just a social construct, it only exists as a means to achieve peace and security in society.  "Good" and "evil" have little to do with it.  It's some pretty deep stuff.... definitely relevant to the article in the OP. 

You're friends a damn good writer.  I'm assuming that he wrote that for school?

Last edited by Spearhead (2010-04-17 15:32:07)

Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6951|NT, like Mick Dundee

your*




And it wasn't written for school. My English teacher would have screeched at me for that and thrown several large, blunt objects at me.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

No what is practical is to not knowingly start abusing drugs....you speak of practicality yet consistently fail to mention the impracticality of ones lack of personal responsibility. Hold them accountable, and maybe you will see some more practical decsion making instead of fostering the belief that they are entitled to a bailout by society whenever they fuck up.
Several countries have tried that....  like Mexico.  How successful have they been?
I don't give a fuck about about mexico, the citizens as well as the govt. are equally corrupt. Would expect anything different? Try relagating your response to the US, and our societies mentality.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

No what is practical is to not knowingly start abusing drugs....you speak of practicality yet consistently fail to mention the impracticality of ones lack of personal responsibility. Hold them accountable, and maybe you will see some more practical decsion making instead of fostering the belief that they are entitled to a bailout by society whenever they fuck up.
Several countries have tried that....  like Mexico.  How successful have they been?
I don't give a fuck about about mexico, the citizens as well as the govt. are equally corrupt. Would expect anything different? Try relagating your response to the US, and our societies mentality.
Well, given current demographic trends...  I'm not so sure if making a comparison to Mexico is that far-fetched.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Several countries have tried that....  like Mexico.  How successful have they been?
I don't give a fuck about about mexico, the citizens as well as the govt. are equally corrupt. Would expect anything different? Try relagating your response to the US, and our societies mentality.
Well, given current demographic trends...  I'm not so sure if making a comparison to Mexico is that far-fetched.
Well ya sure as fuck got me on that one...
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6960|Canberra, AUS

Spearhead wrote:

I'm writing a paper on Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan.  He basically argues that morality is just a social construct, it only exists as a means to achieve peace and security in society.  "Good" and "evil" have little to do with it.  It's some pretty deep stuff.... definitely relevant to the article in the OP. 

You're friends a damn good writer.  I'm assuming that he wrote that for school?
No, just musing as I said.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6280|Truthistan
This article has me thinking


I was thinking about how "morality" is taught. You look to morality tales in the Bible or in Aesop's fables or the Talmud or JC's teachings etc etc and what you find are stories that present the reader with fact scenarios and outcomes from which understanding or meaning of moral action. You also need to be able to empathize with the characters in the morality tales in order to gain a fuller understanding and like they say empathy is prerequisite of wisdom.

To me morality as its taught is inextricably linked with critical thinking. There is no single person that can tell people how to be moral in all stituations, its impossible. You need to take what you have learned and be able to apply to new situations in order to be a moral person. 

But as the article showed, a little zap to inhibit brain function turns off that ability to apply morality, or in other words prohibits critical thinking about a situation. And the default for the brain is to be deterministic where you have a post hoc rationalization of the problem based on the positive or negative characteristic of the outcome. Where the outcome can be determined in an object manner such as a bridge falling down while your girlfriend is on it, you don't have to worry about an issue of manipulation. But if you have a more subjective outcome where an outside influence, say a church leader or a political leader, simple tells people that an outcome is morally good, or that a goal is morally good then you have another problem entirely. What you end up with are people who are incapable of critical thinking, who are unable to apply moral teachings in the given context and who have become deterministic in nature because of a brain defect, and if they are called to action by a leader who tells them that a goal or product or stance or outcome is moral and good, then those individuals will simply follow along. Their incapacity becomes reliance and their reliance becomes dependance on the determinations made by others. And then you have mob rule because no rationalization or reason will be able to change a mind that's incapable of comprehension and critical thinking. And IMO that would be a softer totalitarianism and much more insidious because it certainly begins to look like the domestication of the human species.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6391|eXtreme to the maX
I'm not sure if people who turn to the church or other organisations to take their decisions are brain-lazy or just never learnt critical thinking.

Maybe this is why the developed countries are steadily lowering their educational standards, to dumbify the population so they unblinkingly consume and happily vote for one of the two identical parties.
With morality handed over to govt they can do anything - as long as a White House lawyer writes a memo approving it.

I've noticed different countries teach critical thinking differently, and each has topics which apparently are off limits for discussion or individual consideration.
Fuck Israel

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard