BF2S Forums 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Umm, what's the problem with it? People born here should be citizens...

Edit - Hmm... I guess I agree with the argument that only offspring of citizens should be considered citizens. The 14th amendment was designed to make sure ex-slaves and their children were not denied citizenship...

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-04-15 07:43:49)

Heh, my old class mate's family was living in the US for a couple of years, parents were studying there or something and he has a US citizenship in addition to his Icelandic one.

Pug wrote:

I thought that the "anchor baby" is a resident alien, which is just one step above illegal alien.

Aka, they pay tax and shit or they get kicked out, as just one example.  Like if it's an obscene infraction, jail time...followed by a bus trip to the border.  If they come back...automatic 20 years with no parole...

Anyone born on US soil is a US citizen.

remove due process, remove equal protection.  Those damn anchor babies are infringing on the American way of life!

America is a place, not an idea!

YAWN

JohnG@lt wrote:

Pug wrote:

I thought that the "anchor baby" is a resident alien, which is just one step above illegal alien.

Aka, they pay tax and shit or they get kicked out, as just one example.  Like if it's an obscene infraction, jail time...followed by a bus trip to the border.  If they come back...automatic 20 years with no parole...

Anyone born on US soil is a US citizen.

Ok, I think I'm using the wrong term then.

I know someone who was born in Texas from illegals, never filled out paperwork, lived here for 32 years.

Got caught up in a fight re: family issues.  Fled with child over state border.  Charged with kidnapping.  Because it was over to Oklahoma, it's a minor federal offense.  Given 60 days in jail.  You get your citizenship revoked for a federal crime.

Because they never filled out paperwork, she's getting a bus trip to the border.  She's never been to Mexico and does not speak any Spanish.

32 and kicked out for a few stupid reasons - paperwork & a shitty marriage

Between you and me, that's one crappy lawyer.

Last edited by Pug (2010-04-15 09:16:50)

can we make that retroactive to 1492??? talk about crapping on what is supposed to make this country great "give us you tired, your hungry, your poor...." Ellis Island and all that.

Here's what you would be throwing away "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Its like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Personally I can live with a few mothers dropping their babies on this side of the line if it guarantees me due process, privileges and immunities and equal protection from abusinve state law.



But seriously ATG, where did you hear this one? I would like to know the source because repeal of the 14th Amendment means that you would be stripping every citizen of vital protection from state law... without the those protections living in certain states would be the shits. Could you imagine California taking property to pay state debt, or Texas instituting right wing Christian dogma in public schools, or how about segregation in schools again, laws against interracial marriage, fornication laws, anti-sodomy laws... the potential for abusive laws would be endless. Practically every advance towards a new age of reason would get washed away by disgustingly narrow minded moral socialists who believe that their culture IS the only expression of American culture and that their religion and the only religion; its these people who are ruining this country.

But then again that might fix the anchor baby problem because a lot of people would leave this country, including myself. Ahhhh just imagine a perfect society of mansions, trailer parks and uni-religion churches..... ohhh to dream of that hell.


So I would really like to know who it is that is advocating this idea so I can put that person or group in the states rights camp right beside those that think that we should have Chinese style factory work camp housing with zero rights.

IMO get rid of the 14th Amendment and that's were we would headed.

Don't repeal the 14th Amendment...

Just revoke jus soli.

That will fix a lot of things very quickly.  Jus sanguinis is more valid.

Diesel_dyk wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Don't repeal the 14th Amendment...

Just revoke jus soli.

That will fix a lot of things very quickly.  Jus sanguinis is more valid.

I don't think you have to revoke anything.

People try to make "anchor" babies out to be some fast track back door. The reality is different. You would have to give birth, and the kid would be a citizen but the parent wouldn't be and having the kid doesn't mean you get to stay in the country, so they have to move back. then wait 18 years and have the kid sponsor them, then immigrate and wait another 3 years to naturalize then apply for the rest of the family and the application period would be about 1 year plus the waiting periods and for siblings who are married that would be any where up to 8 years. So for some of the other family members you are looking at 30 years from when the kid was born.... that's hardly a fast track.

I would like to know what the actual anchor baby immigration numbers are, I suspect that the outrage is overblown...


IMO its more to do with whipping up anti-immigrant sentiment than anything else.... all puff and no substance


What the US really needs is an immigration point system like the rest of the world to let in needed workers legally, but then again employers wouldn't like that because then they would have to pay proper wages. That and a crack down on employers who hire illegals and that would fix the problem really quick.

I forgot to add that there are some rare circumstances where is you didn't have jus soli there could be people who are born without citzenship. If the other country didn't recognize a birth abroad by jus sanguinis and the birth country didn't recognize jus soli, then the kid could be without any citizenship of any kind....

anyway here is an interesting bit on jus soli http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

Diesel_dyk wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Don't repeal the 14th Amendment...

Just revoke jus soli.

That will fix a lot of things very quickly.  Jus sanguinis is more valid.

I don't think you have to revoke anything.

People try to make "anchor" babies out to be some fast track back door. The reality is different. You would have to give birth, and the kid would be a citizen but the parent wouldn't be and having the kid doesn't mean you get to stay in the country, so they have to move back. then wait 18 years and have the kid sponsor them, then immigrate and wait another 3 years to naturalize then apply for the rest of the family and the application period would be about 1 year plus the waiting periods and for siblings who are married that would be any where up to 8 years. So for some of the other family members you are looking at 30 years from when the kid was born.... that's hardly a fast track.

I would like to know what the actual anchor baby immigration numbers are, I suspect that the outrage is overblown...


IMO its more to do with whipping up anti-immigrant sentiment than anything else.... all puff and no substance


What the US really needs is an immigration point system like the rest of the world to let in needed workers legally, but then again employers wouldn't like that because then they would have to pay proper wages. That and a crack down on employers who hire illegals and that would fix the problem really quick.

Umm, due to compassionate reasons, the US government rarely, if ever, deports the parents of a citizen...

Fine, have your kid in the US so he gets US citizenship.

Just remember to take him with you when your (the parents) Visa expires in a few months.


Personally, I think the criteria for US citizenship by birth should be;
"Meets at least two of the following criteria:  A) Mother a US citizen at the time of child's birth B) Father a US citizen at the time of child's birth C) Born in the USA"

Diesel_dyk wrote:

ATG wrote:

Diesel_dyk wrote:

But seriously ATG, where did you hear this one?

I hear with my eyes as well as my ears.


Our immigration policy is out of control and with impending increases in social nets it will destroy us financially.

Yes, but this one sounds like a product of a think tank. a veiled state rights attack on the 14th amendment that uses the anti illegal immigration sentiment to overturn constitutional protections for actual citizens.

And actually on the social nets... the problem we are facing is that the baby boomers will over load the system and there aren't enough tax payers in the system to take their place. Wages are too low, tax revenues are falling, and birth rates have fallen. The boomers didn't pay enough tax to begin with to pay for their retirements. And one solution that would work would be to have an new round of "mega immigration" and let in about 50 million or so skilled workers to offset the tax burden being caused by the baby boomers.

Our capitalist system requires growth. the problem is that there are no new lands to conquer, no new resources to exploit, the birth rates have declined and that really only leaves immigration.  Unless we start to create a sustainable economy... but given that people don't even want universal healthcare, let alone controls to ensure a zero growth sustainable economy... so I think we are stuck with immigration to fuel growth.


The problem is that immigration today is focused on bringing in cheap laborers instead of head hunting skilled workers.

Good points, but I believe we've at least gotten to the point in America that SS has turned out to be a noble but deeply flawed idea.

Retirement is a personal responsibility, not a public one.  We're going to learn this the hard way when SS goes bankrupt (regardless of immigration).  It will be painful in the short run, but getting our society off of dependence on government for retirement is a good thing.

Only smaller nations (like Canada) can entertain ideas such as socialized pensions in the long run.