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Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|5938|132 and Bush

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

I tend to just wait until I've got a killer hand and then start betting properly, at which point everyone else folds I guess thats not bluffing properly...
Depends on how many people are playing. If I'm at a table with 8 people I'll fold anything that isn't great. Let your opponents take each other out and then your odds of winning are better. You are playing against less hands.

Watch the antes though. Sometimes, after awhile, you are forced to play.
Still obviously flawed strategy. You have to decrease the total number of hands you play, not changing the ratio of good:bad hands that you play.
No it's not. Obviously if you are dealt rockets or something solid you play. But generally speaking it's a good strategy. Stay conservative until the herd thins out. Head to head I'll play more hands because the odds of winning with a weaker hand is higher.

Come play me. Ig, organize something.

10 bucks says FM is all talk.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
whaaaaaaaaaat
><>
+215|4587
i can create private tourneys on stars if you want to test your luck. let me know when youre free
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|5938|132 and Bush

We should set it for sometime next week to give members a chance to get setup. Hows 7-8 EDT?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|6069|St. Andrews / Oslo

ig, have you read any poker books that are worth reading? Or any internet links on strategy or something?

I actually manage to come quite far for the most part when playing, but I never have a huge stack.. Probably due to me playing more on statistics and less on bluffing and the like. Won £4 on the free rolls the other day lol yay
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png https://twitter.com/phoenix/favicon.ico
whaaaaaaaaaat
><>
+215|4587

Kmarion wrote:

We should set it for sometime next week to give members a chance to get setup. Hows 7-8 EDT?
weve tried it several times, and it never worked. just tell me when, and ill make the tourney. not going to put forth any other effort beside that
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6044|67.222.138.85
Poker isn't about your probability to win, it's about what everyone else thinks your probability to win is. Yes it makes sense to play "conservatively" until the weak are culled from the herd, but above all you have to be unpredictable. There is a reason a computer program can't play poker. It's more about the people than the cards.

Not that I know how to play poker itself. The social principles of bluff games still hold.

edit: though I would be interested to know if ig thinks I'm full of shit. I don't know if he plays RL poker or just online though.
whaaaaaaaaaat
><>
+215|4587

Jenspm wrote:

ig, have you read any poker books that are worth reading? Or any internet links on strategy or something?

I actually manage to come quite far for the most part when playing, but I never have a huge stack.. Probably due to me playing more on statistics and less on bluffing and the like. Won £4 on the free rolls the other day lol yay
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32/be … questions/

start there. if you have any specific quesitions pm me

Last edited by whaaaaaaaaaat (2010-04-08 12:53:12)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|5938|132 and Bush

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Poker isn't about your probability to win, it's about what everyone else thinks your probability to win is. Yes it makes sense to play "conservatively" until the weak are culled from the herd, but above all you have to be unpredictable. There is a reason a computer program can't play poker. It's more about the people than the cards.

Not that I know how to play poker itself. The social principles of bluff games still hold.

edit: though I would be interested to know if ig thinks I'm full of shit. I don't know if he plays RL poker or just online though.
Nothing you said contradicts what I said. I was offering a single angle in a game that has many. In case you didn't tick it i was speaking in general.

How about some advice? Contribute something helpful here. Surprise me. Do you want a cookie from ig for saying be unpredictable in poker? Well golly, thanks for the late breaking news Einstein.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|5938|132 and Bush

whaaaaaaaaaat wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

We should set it for sometime next week to give members a chance to get setup. Hows 7-8 EDT?
weve tried it several times, and it never worked. just tell me when, and ill make the tourney. not going to put forth any other effort beside that
I think we need a common platform. Maybe we should start with Zynga/Facebook. Just to get ppl playing.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,944|5969|949

Jenspm wrote:

ig, have you read any poker books that are worth reading? Or any internet links on strategy or something?

I actually manage to come quite far for the most part when playing, but I never have a huge stack.. Probably due to me playing more on statistics and less on bluffing and the like. Won £4 on the free rolls the other day lol yay
Read Caro's Book of Tells.  It has some decent insight into reading your opponent.  Granted that won't work if you only play online.  Super System is still a classic even if a good percentage of people play the strong bully/bluffer type.  Still has its merits and it's good to know what to expect from people that play that way (I personally don't most of the time).
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6044|67.222.138.85

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Poker isn't about your probability to win, it's about what everyone else thinks your probability to win is. Yes it makes sense to play "conservatively" until the weak are culled from the herd, but above all you have to be unpredictable. There is a reason a computer program can't play poker. It's more about the people than the cards.

Not that I know how to play poker itself. The social principles of bluff games still hold.

edit: though I would be interested to know if ig thinks I'm full of shit. I don't know if he plays RL poker or just online though.
Nothing you said contradicts what I said. I was offering a single angle in a game that has many. In case you didn't tick it i was speaking in general.

How about some advice? Contribute something helpful here. Surprise me. Do you want a cookie from ig for saying be unpredictable in poker? Well golly, thanks for the late breaking news Einstein.
Playing 50 good hands to 1 bad hand is not playing "conservatively", it's just dumb. Always play something like 10:1, and to play conservatively when lots of players are on the table decrease the overall number of hands that you play.

Kmarion wrote:

If I'm at a table with 8 people I'll fold anything that isn't great.
This is throwing away some significant percentage of playable hands because you aren't bluffing.
=NHB=Shadow
hi
+322|5703|California
Okay, for real now, just play some facebook poker and you'll be pro in no time!
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|5938|132 and Bush

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Poker isn't about your probability to win, it's about what everyone else thinks your probability to win is. Yes it makes sense to play "conservatively" until the weak are culled from the herd, but above all you have to be unpredictable. There is a reason a computer program can't play poker. It's more about the people than the cards.

Not that I know how to play poker itself. The social principles of bluff games still hold.

edit: though I would be interested to know if ig thinks I'm full of shit. I don't know if he plays RL poker or just online though.
Nothing you said contradicts what I said. I was offering a single angle in a game that has many. In case you didn't tick it i was speaking in general.

How about some advice? Contribute something helpful here. Surprise me. Do you want a cookie from ig for saying be unpredictable in poker? Well golly, thanks for the late breaking news Einstein.
Playing 50 good hands to 1 bad hand is not playing "conservatively", it's just dumb. Always play something like 10:1, and to play conservatively when lots of players are on the table decrease the overall number of hands that you play.

Kmarion wrote:

If I'm at a table with 8 people I'll fold anything that isn't great.
This is throwing away some significant percentage of playable hands because you aren't bluffing.
My experience (of 20 years) has been that there isn't a need to bluff early on. There is always a handful of loose canons that take each other out. I usually make it to the top 3 in tourneys.

What is "playable" varies by how many ppl you have to beat. A smart kid like yourself should get that.

You play your way and I'll play mine FM. When are you free?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6044|67.222.138.85
Best isn't indicative of good. It's a minor flaw but a clear one.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|5938|132 and Bush

Right, but if something has been working for so long it's going to take something significant for me to change it. It won't be advice from someone who admits they aren't very good at poker. That's just the way it is bobo.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6044|67.222.138.85
I'm just saying you have to cultivate and then take advantage of deception. Don't try to reap what you haven't sown and don't let the crops rot in the fields. I mean yeah if you're playing dimwits then it doesn't matter very much, but that doesn't mean you can't do it anyways. Besides, these principles hardly only apply to poker.

Which is why my opinion is still valid. I said I don't play poker, I have no experience with poker. I have lots of experience reading people.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|5938|132 and Bush

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

I'm just saying you have to cultivate and then take advantage of deception.
I do this once the junk has been worked, when playing with people you haven't played with before. There are guys that come in and go all in on a whim. Generally speaking those guys don't last long.

My willingness to play varies on a lot of other things as well. Obviously if I'm the big blind and no one raises I'm going to hang around for some free cards. We also aren't being very specific with what are good or great hands in any situation. The point you are getting at is rather basic. Yes you want to keep your opponent guessing. If I bluff everyone out I'm not showing my hand. In order for them to know you bluffed they have to stay in. .. course some ppl show them anyways just to fck with ppls head. I prefer the "you tell me what I had approach". Less likely to give away a tell. 

I do bluff FM.. but it is based on how other people are playing.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6044|67.222.138.85
lol you play with people who show their hand after
HaiBai
Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
+304|4821|Bolingbrook, Illinois

whaaaaaaaaaat wrote:

HaiBai wrote:

CanadianLoser wrote:

was i talking to you?
y
10 bucks says youre a losing player. sn plz
Yeah, especially after I posted that I use a bot.  No thanks.

Kmarion wrote:

HaiBai wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Still obviously flawed strategy. You have to decrease the total number of hands you play, not changing the ratio of good:bad hands that you play.
Erm.  Are you really suggesting that someone should pick a bad hand every once in a while? 
How the hell did you get that from what I said mr rolleyes?
"ratio of good:bad hands that you play"

You never play bad hands unless you're forced to because your tournament is coming to a close.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Poker isn't about your probability to win, it's about what everyone else thinks your probability to win is. Yes it makes sense to play "conservatively" until the weak are culled from the herd, but above all you have to be unpredictable. There is a reason a computer program can't play poker. It's more about the people than the cards.

Not that I know how to play poker itself. The social principles of bluff games still hold.

edit: though I would be interested to know if ig thinks I'm full of shit. I don't know if he plays RL poker or just online though.
This is so wrong.  Above all, you need to exploit your opponent.  I agree, it's more about the people than the cards.  But the point is that you have to exploit them.  If you're playing a mouse, get the fuck out unless you have a monster.  You do that everything.  It's not like you'll increase your chances of winning that hand by raising with some shit cards just to be unpredictable.  Besides, if you adapt to a different playstyle everytime you play a different type of opponent, you'll be unpredictable enough.  Also; a computer program can play poker.  Statistics being recorded in a database help the computer make decisions.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Poker isn't about your probability to win, it's about what everyone else thinks your probability to win is. Yes it makes sense to play "conservatively" until the weak are culled from the herd, but above all you have to be unpredictable. There is a reason a computer program can't play poker. It's more about the people than the cards.

Not that I know how to play poker itself. The social principles of bluff games still hold.

edit: though I would be interested to know if ig thinks I'm full of shit. I don't know if he plays RL poker or just online though.
Nothing you said contradicts what I said. I was offering a single angle in a game that has many. In case you didn't tick it i was speaking in general.

How about some advice? Contribute something helpful here. Surprise me. Do you want a cookie from ig for saying be unpredictable in poker? Well golly, thanks for the late breaking news Einstein.
Playing 50 good hands to 1 bad hand is not playing "conservatively", it's just dumb. Always play something like 10:1, and to play conservatively when lots of players are on the table decrease the overall number of hands that you play.

Kmarion wrote:

If I'm at a table with 8 people I'll fold anything that isn't great.
This is throwing away some significant percentage of playable hands because you aren't bluffing.
If possible, you should play 1,000,000 good cards to 1 bad card.  Why the hell would you ever chose to play a bad card?  Sure, you can start stealing with a bigger range of hands once you move towards the button.  But that doesn't mean you should choose bad cards on purpose.  You only do that when you're forced to.

Kmarion wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Nothing you said contradicts what I said. I was offering a single angle in a game that has many. In case you didn't tick it i was speaking in general.

How about some advice? Contribute something helpful here. Surprise me. Do you want a cookie from ig for saying be unpredictable in poker? Well golly, thanks for the late breaking news Einstein.
Playing 50 good hands to 1 bad hand is not playing "conservatively", it's just dumb. Always play something like 10:1, and to play conservatively when lots of players are on the table decrease the overall number of hands that you play.

Kmarion wrote:

If I'm at a table with 8 people I'll fold anything that isn't great.
This is throwing away some significant percentage of playable hands because you aren't bluffing.
My experience (of 20 years) has been that there isn't a need to bluff early on. There is always a handful of loose canons that take each other out. I usually make it to the top 3 in tourneys.

What is "playable" varies by how many ppl you have to beat. A smart kid like yourself should get that.

You play your way and I'll play mine FM. When are you free?
I agree with this.  At the start of the tournament, blinds are so low and you have a healthy stack so you have lots of time to wait for nice cards.  Don't play unless you need to.  There's no point in trying to bluff with 72o just to make some extra money.  Maybe later in the tournament when you're in danger of being eliminated, but not now.  Also, what type of tournaments do you play to usually finish in the top 3?  STT's don't really count as tournaments..

Also, it's not like you guys can just sit at a poker table, play each other for 1,000 hands, and find out who's the better poker player.  It's called variance.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6044|67.222.138.85

HaiBai wrote:

It's not like you'll increase your chances of winning that hand by raising with some shit cards just to be unpredictable.
lol

Seriously that is the definition of a bluff. You precisely raise your chances of winning by raising with shit cards.

HaiBai wrote:

Also; a computer program can play poker.  Statistics being recorded in a database help the computer make decisions.
and lol
mkxiii
online bf2s mek evasion
+509|5573|Uk
i agree with FM that it can be useful to play some junk early on, as it helps create a table image. playing tight is most effective when people think you are loose and vice versa, if you decide to do shit all for the first couple of blinds, you are a lot less likely to get paid off with big hands later on
HaiBai
Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
+304|4821|Bolingbrook, Illinois

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

HaiBai wrote:

It's not like you'll increase your chances of winning that hand by raising with some shit cards just to be unpredictable.
lol

Seriously that is the definition of a bluff. You precisely raise your chances of winning by raising with shit cards.

HaiBai wrote:

Also; a computer program can play poker.  Statistics being recorded in a database help the computer make decisions.
and lol
It depends on who you're playing.  Of course bluffing works increases your chances of winning if you're playing a LAG player.  Make that same decision on a TAG player and you might be done for the rest of the tournament.  The thing is, in that early stage of a tournament, you have a healthy stack and plenty of time to wait for good hands.  You do not want to take risks at that time.

and lol @ u

http://www.holdemmanager.com/

http://www.pokertracker.com/

databases

mkxiii wrote:

i agree with FM that it can be useful to play some junk early on, as it helps create a table image. playing tight is most effective when people think you are loose and vice versa, if you decide to do shit all for the first couple of blinds, you are a lot less likely to get paid off with big hands later on
no.  o wait letz reraise with 72o against this mouse after he reraised me.  then after that everyone will think im stupid and give me there moneyz!
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6044|67.222.138.85
WOW there is software that is SO SURPRISING. Teaching a computer to play poker is like teaching a computer to love.
whaaaaaaaaaat
><>
+215|4587
can you idiots both shut the fuck up already
Eifa
Never regret anything that ever made you smile.
+923|5208|00770

whaaaaaaaaaat wrote:

can you idiots both shut the fuck up already
you go girl!
No, I don't need an attitude adjustment. You just need to fuck off.

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