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2010-03-22 03:08:05
Benzin
Member
+576|6289

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

What has the country done discounting what the people of the country have done?

By your definition what has any country done of note?
This is the exact point I am getting at. Nationalism has no place in the world because at the end of the day, most every country is just as shitty as the other. So trying to build one country/people/culture above another and make it seem better is at the end of the day simply destructive.

JohnG@lt wrote:

The personal computer, the internet, the ipod and thousands of other things have originated and spread from America to the rest of the world. I know you're a pseudo-American who hates his country but we give a lot more to the world than we take. Apart from our recent troubles which everyone else is experiencing as well, we're also the nation with the highest GDP on the planet, and it's not even close.

So sowwy but you're adopted homeland is not superior.
Good! This is the exact kind of answer that I wanted (minus the rudeness). I wouldn't exactly call the iPod a great achievement, but I see where you're going. The digital age was brought about by American citizens buying into the technology and thus spreading it around the world.

1) Digital Age
2) Space exploration
3) Charity

And that's about all we have to show for the past 40 years. Not bad, though, I would agree.

jsnipy wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

The concept of what constitutes a 'Great Nation' is entirely subjective and most of those that use the term are usually unwittingly using it as an advert for how unintelligent they are.
the only intelligent thing said in this thread tbh
Couldn't agree more.

Turquoise wrote:

What?  Did you like miss the Pacific War during WW2 in your history class?
Don't forget about Australia and the Chinese. They helped, too. Think about it: if Japan had left China alone and concentrated on crushing the US, the Japanese would have had a lot more soldiers to bring to bear on the Americans.



That article from Time that was posted is actually quite good. Lots of sections worth quoting in this discussion, but I think this one sums it up best:
Americans have little tolerance for accidents or other calamities: we investigate, postmortemize and litigate bad stuff until it is clear who is to blame and why it won't happen again. Then we go on fretting about how the nation is falling apart. And that vigilance seems to immunize the country against that dreaded fate.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/specials/packa … z0itkFTGrE
(sorry if you think I am America-bashing here, but according to the article, John, I'm the perfect American! lol) But this also isn't necessarily an American trait anymore. I think the Brits are just as good at this kind of stuff as the US is, as is much of Europe.
2010-03-22 04:23:41
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6702|'Murka

I'd say we have dumped far more treasure (both tangible and intangible) in other countries in trying to bolster ideals in line with personal freedoms (as recognized by the West--not talking about Iraq, even though it has worked out that way) than any other country in the past 40 years. Granted, the economic successes already mentioned have enabled that and they have not necessarily been altruistic in nature (what country's foreign policy ever is?). The problems have arisen when the lack of altruism has been uncovered or overt. Inconsistency is a killer.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-03-22 04:43:22
BLdw
..
+27|5462|M104 "Sombrero"

CapnNismo wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mo … _countries So the US is the most charitable nation in the world. OK, certainly not bad. But if we count the EU countries altogether, they've got the US beat by a long shot.
Yeah, we here are very charitable.
Real Aid: An Agenda for Making Aid Work
This' naturally just a one side to look at it, but I've already seen enough of this "our" side in our news. ... And wikipedia.

Turquoise wrote:

Fair point...  Still, I'll take freer speech over better gun control.
From what I have read, seen, heard, freedom of speech (and personal freedoms) aren't that great in USA. My point of view is absolutely biased, of course, and everything varies from state to state (I guess).

CapnNismo wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

What has the country done discounting what the people of the country have done?

By your definition what has any country done of note?
This is the exact point I am getting at. Nationalism has no place in the world because at the end of the day, most every country is just as shitty as the other. So trying to build one country/people/culture above another and make it seem better is at the end of the day simply destructive.
Nationalism, just like any religion, is a good way to influence and push people in "right" directions.

On topic
US is such a great nation because it can follow universal principle -- but don't have to when it is in contradiction of its own laws and plans of universal and economical harmony.

Last edited by BLdw (2010-03-22 04:44:21)

2010-03-22 04:51:21
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6972|Disaster Free Zone
They have 2.5 times the population of any other developed nation.
2010-03-22 04:54:25
Benzin
Member
+576|6289
Many of you aren't even answering the original question I posed in the OP. Read the OP and then post, please.
2010-03-22 05:09:07
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6397|eXtreme to the maX
On the plus side I'd say entrepreneurialism and can-do attitude.
Its often the wrong thing which gets done but sometimes its still better than nothing....

Does seem to be hobbled by racism and perceived racism at every turn however.
Fuck Israel
2010-03-22 09:13:20
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|7004|Purplicious Wisconsin
We did our part to make Communism shatter in the cold war, bring the Berlin Wall down, and really lead the way in technological advancement in the 20th century. In the present day, we aren't really the "leader" anymore.

Cybargs wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:


lmao
Show me a war led by the USA that succeeded without help.


Thank you and good luck.
War of 1812. Spanish American war (Teddy kicked ASS) and a few asses.

The US can simply bomb a country back to the stone age and declare "victory." But it is more beneficial in the long run to stay and rebuild a fucking country.

Getting their asses handed by a bunch of kids? Really? Go look at how many insurgents the US killed compared to US soldiers killed. Same with 'Nam. US still achieves a higher KDR.
Well we were winning Vietnam, we only lost because we were "Killing ourselves". That's really how we lost.

DrunkFace wrote:

They have 2.5 times the population of any other developed nation.
You're not including China are ya?
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
2010-03-22 16:50:47
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6891|132 and Bush

One thing America does well is execute ideas... even if they aren't always their ideas to begin with.

I thought about this when I was reading about how Zuckerberg was being sued by his old Harvard buds for the idea of Facebook. Ideas are a dime a dozen. It is what you did with that idea that has weight imo.

In summary,

CameronPoe wrote:

The concept of what constitutes a 'Great Nation' is entirely subjective and most of those that use the term are usually unwittingly using it as an advert for how unintelligent they are.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2010-03-22 16:58:44
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6997|67.222.138.85

CapnNismo wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

What has the country done discounting what the people of the country have done?

By your definition what has any country done of note?
This is the exact point I am getting at. Nationalism has no place in the world because at the end of the day, most every country is just as shitty as the other. So trying to build one country/people/culture above another and make it seem better is at the end of the day simply destructive.
No, I am saying you are taking away the one and only measure of a country and asking what is left. That's stupid. To say the U.S. is a "great nation" is arguable, to say it's just as shitty as Somalia is a joke.
2010-03-22 17:03:24
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6696|North Carolina

CapnNismo wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

What?  Did you like miss the Pacific War during WW2 in your history class?
Don't forget about Australia and the Chinese. They helped, too. Think about it: if Japan had left China alone and concentrated on crushing the US, the Japanese would have had a lot more soldiers to bring to bear on the Americans.
Uh... no.  While the European theater of the war involved a collective effort between European powers, Russia, and America, the Pacific theater was largely fought by American forces on their own terms.  Allies certainly helped, but Australia wasn't exactly a major military power.  Neither was China.  The Australians did stand their ground remarkably well against the Japanese, but when it came to actually pushing the Japanese back to their homeland, America did most of the work.

You have to remember just how much firepower we had even back then.  We were one of the only militaries in the world with the sheer numbers to spread our efforts between Europe and the Pacific effectively.  Japan's Navy and aircraft were inferior to ours.  They also were running out of qualified pilots by the end of the war.  In addition, their own air defense over their homeland was very poor.  We actually killed more Japanese with firebombs than with both nukes combined.  If we had wanted to, we could've burned Japan to the ground with firebombings, especially because of how vulnerable their building construction was to fire.  We could have literally wiped the Japanese off of the face of the Earth that way, but thankfully, we didn't go that route.
2010-03-22 17:06:55
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6696|North Carolina

BLdw wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Fair point...  Still, I'll take freer speech over better gun control.
From what I have read, seen, heard, freedom of speech (and personal freedoms) aren't that great in USA. My point of view is absolutely biased, of course, and everything varies from state to state (I guess).
Well, for perspective, what country would you say is freer than America when it comes to personal freedoms like speech?
2010-03-22 17:18:35
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6891|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

CapnNismo wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

What?  Did you like miss the Pacific War during WW2 in your history class?
Don't forget about Australia and the Chinese. They helped, too. Think about it: if Japan had left China alone and concentrated on crushing the US, the Japanese would have had a lot more soldiers to bring to bear on the Americans.
Uh... no.  While the European theater of the war involved a collective effort between European powers, Russia, and America, the Pacific theater was largely fought by American forces on their own terms.  Allies certainly helped, but Australia wasn't exactly a major military power.  Neither was China.  The Australians did stand their ground remarkably well against the Japanese, but when it came to actually pushing the Japanese back to their homeland, America did most of the work.

You have to remember just how much firepower we had even back then.  We were one of the only militaries in the world with the sheer numbers to spread our efforts between Europe and the Pacific effectively.  Japan's Navy and aircraft were inferior to ours.  They also were running out of qualified pilots by the end of the war.  In addition, their own air defense over their homeland was very poor.  We actually killed more Japanese with firebombs than with both nukes combined.  If we had wanted to, we could've burned Japan to the ground with firebombings, especially because of how vulnerable their building construction was to fire.  We could have literally wiped the Japanese off of the face of the Earth that way, but thankfully, we didn't go that route.
The original goal of getting to Iwo Jima was to pulverize the Japanese main land.
Start at about 1:30 in. Excellent, albeit old, series. I can't recommend it enough.




3, 4, 5
mind. blown.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2010-03-23 00:16:12
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6965|Canberra, AUS
some fairly amusing landings in part 2 there.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2010-03-23 00:20:14
Benzin
Member
+576|6289
I'm not going to discuss WW2 history here because it is entirely off topic. Try and stay on topic, gentlemen.
2010-03-23 06:12:03
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5528|Cleveland, Ohio

Turquoise wrote:

CapnNismo wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

What?  Did you like miss the Pacific War during WW2 in your history class?
Don't forget about Australia and the Chinese. They helped, too. Think about it: if Japan had left China alone and concentrated on crushing the US, the Japanese would have had a lot more soldiers to bring to bear on the Americans.
Uh... no.  While the European theater of the war involved a collective effort between European powers, Russia, and America, the Pacific theater was largely fought by American forces on their own terms.  Allies certainly helped, but Australia wasn't exactly a major military power.  Neither was China.  The Australians did stand their ground remarkably well against the Japanese, but when it came to actually pushing the Japanese back to their homeland, America did most of the work.

You have to remember just how much firepower we had even back then.  We were one of the only militaries in the world with the sheer numbers to spread our efforts between Europe and the Pacific effectively.  Japan's Navy and aircraft were inferior to ours.  They also were running out of qualified pilots by the end of the war.  In addition, their own air defense over their homeland was very poor.  We actually killed more Japanese with firebombs than with both nukes combined.  If we had wanted to, we could've burned Japan to the ground with firebombings, especially because of how vulnerable their building construction was to fire.  We could have literally wiped the Japanese off of the face of the Earth that way, but thankfully, we didn't go that route.
2010-03-23 06:13:06
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5528|Cleveland, Ohio

m3thod wrote:

knowing you can be thick as pigshit but still have a excellent chance at becoming ze furhur.
tony blair?
2010-03-23 06:26:23
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|7134|Reykjavík, Iceland.

Turquoise wrote:

BLdw wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Fair point...  Still, I'll take freer speech over better gun control.
From what I have read, seen, heard, freedom of speech (and personal freedoms) aren't that great in USA. My point of view is absolutely biased, of course, and everything varies from state to state (I guess).
Well, for perspective, what country would you say is freer than America when it comes to personal freedoms like speech?
Well, Iceland.

We have complete freedom as speech as in the US, and we can swear on TV and radio without any censoring.
2010-03-23 06:49:15
Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|7029|Toronto | Canada

S3v3N wrote:

Ebay
Canadian

Cybargs wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:


lmao
Show me a war led by the USA that succeeded without help.


Thank you and good luck.
War of 1812.
Pretty sure you didnt win anything there.  We burned your White House down...
2010-03-23 07:09:49
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7007

Winston_Churchill wrote:

S3v3N wrote:

Ebay
Canadian

Cybargs wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:


Show me a war led by the USA that succeeded without help.


Thank you and good luck.
War of 1812.
Pretty sure you didnt win anything there.  We burned your White House down...
I'm not American lolz.

As I said, Spanish-American war.

But you must admit, Monroe Doctrine really kicked you Euros out of that part of the world.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2010-03-23 08:08:38
BLdw
..
+27|5462|M104 "Sombrero"

Turquoise wrote:

BLdw wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Fair point...  Still, I'll take freer speech over better gun control.
From what I have read, seen, heard, freedom of speech (and personal freedoms) aren't that great in USA. My point of view is absolutely biased, of course, and everything varies from state to state (I guess).
Well, for perspective, what country would you say is freer than America when it comes to personal freedoms like speech?
Do you mean freedom of the press, or freedom of the speech every citizen is (should be) entitled to? I am quite free, as an individual, to comment anything of everything and almost everywhere I want to (in my country) without violating any laws. "Trueish" freedom of press is one of the positive things to live in a small and neutral country. Press can comment anything of everything and almost everywhere they want to. Does not necessarily mean this happens because the influence of our Western point of view and rest Western media.

I've read that CIA has asked several times press not to publish something that might be "harmful to nation's best interests". Wasn't Washington Post asked to delay, by CIA, publishing information about conditions of Guantanamo Bay detainees, "too early"? (I faintly remember that this was in Washington Post. I'm looking searching the news now...)

Besides, how can press be free if it has to think what customers want to read/hear? Can your press really post something radical without the fear of losing its customers? It's quite natural that you know (ought to know at least) your own press better than me, but does reading news from one source mean you have free press?

Correct me, if I am wrong.

(I like deleting posts and then posting same shit in the same place.)
2010-03-23 08:23:08
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6972|Disaster Free Zone

War Man wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

They have 2.5 times the population of any other developed nation.
You're not including China are ya?
No, are you

I also stand by my point in that Americas population is the sole reason for its success and the only reason you could call it 'great'.
2010-03-23 08:25:14
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7007

DrunkFace wrote:

War Man wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

They have 2.5 times the population of any other developed nation.
You're not including China are ya?
No, are you

I also stand by my point in that Americas population is the sole reason for its success and the only reason you could call it 'great'.
Keyword he missed... Developed.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2010-03-23 08:26:09
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6788

DrunkFace wrote:

I also stand by my point in that Americas population is the sole reason for its success and the only reason you could call it 'great'.
why, thanks! and here i thought y'all were haters, bashing the States any chance you could! i feel bad, i <3 you all!
2010-03-23 12:37:57
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6891|132 and Bush

CapnNismo wrote:

I'm not going to discuss WW2 history here because it is entirely off topic. Try and stay on topic, gentlemen.
No not really. You asked why the US is considered great and we are talking about the events that involved what Americans call their Greatest Generation.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2010-03-23 12:45:00
SEREMAKER
BABYMAKIN EXPERT √
+2,187|6859|Mountains of NC

https://www.deepjiveinterests.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/brass%20balls.jpg
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