BF2S Forums The Most Ungrateful Nation On Earth

David Frum: Born to a Jewish family in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Iconic Irony wrote:

I agree with David Frum. 

The next time the shit breaks off, everyone should get the fuck back and let Israel do what Israel needs to do and let the bullshit be over with once and for all.  It's no different than a playground fight, consider yourself in the following scenario: everyone circles around to watch a fight between two people.  One of these people says the jungle gym is his because his daddy used to play on it, the other kid says it's his because he's playing on it right now.  The two children are at an impasse.  A teacher comes along and tells them they have to share it but the kid who most recently had it starts throwing a fit and starts a fight.  The new kid beats the shit out of him and the old kid runs away and brings back friends.  Then the new kid beats the shit out of all his friends and gains control of the swingset and the slide.  After the other children run away in defeat, the new kid gives them back the swingset and slide.  Once again, they start a fight and once again he kicks their asses, and ONCE AGAIN gives them back the swingset and slide.  Then the teacher comes back and forces them to share the jungle gym but the old kids is throwing punches at the new kid every couple of minutes.  So the new kid beats his ass AGAIN, then in turn, gives him a larger portion of the jungle gym.  The old kid comes back ONCE AGAIN and hits him and he just sits there as the rest of the kids on the playground sit and call him a bully.

Nice attitude you got there. I think you'll find it's a bit more involved than a playground fight. There are people's lives at stake, their livelihoods, their children, their property. Analogy Flaw No. 1: the teacher is not telling to share it - he's telling them that under international law you are stealing by acquiring territory through force - just like Hitler, just like Napoleon, just like Mussolini. The Israel kid never gave the swingset back. He is gradually strangling the kid sitting on the swing hoping that he'll fuck off so he can steal that too. Ireland fought for 800 years, countless crushed rebellions, in the cause of justice, fairness and righteousness. In this modern era justice is possible. But according to you: not for Palestine - they shouldn't be fighting their corner: the strong should win out irrespective of morality. That's heinous imperialist twaddle that thankfully no longer needs to hold in a modern world with at least some semblance of international law.

Iconic Irony wrote:

The moral of the story is, FUCK PALESTINE and FUCK LEBANON.  Not because I like Israel or Jews, but because I hate fucking crybabies.

The moral of the story is, FUCK ISRAEL and their current government. Not because I don't like Israelis, but because I don't like injustice. Israel has it's internationally recognised patch of land. They're doing quite well on it (well so long as the American dollars keep rolling in). 

Iconic Irony wrote:

Palestine lost.  They will always lose, they are weak because of their past failures.  They are not the first people in the history of the world to have had and to have lost, move on, get over it.  In all honesty, Israel should be triple the size it is today but instead gave their conquered lands back.  WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT?  The good guys do, kind of like how America and Britain gave France, Germany, Italy, Japan etc etc back after we defeated them.  Kind how the USSR didn't.  See where I'm going with this?  Do you, Cameron Poe, think that Germany was in any position to be demanding territory back from the USSR in 1946?  Do you think that Argentina is in any position to demand the Falklands back simply because it's off their coast?  Palestine was defeated by Britain, thats failure number 1, then they got handed over to a bunch of people that were nearly exterminated from the Earth and got their asses kicked AGAIN, thats failure number 2, then they went and got friends to help and got their teeth kicked in AGAIN, thats failure number 3, then over the course of the next 30 years performed terrorist attacks against Israel only to cry when big daddy Israel slapped the ugly off their faces for it, FAILURE NUMBER 4!!!

Israel should be triple the size? So you believe in military conquest with the aim of territorial expansion? Well I'm sorry but if that's your attitude them I'm afraid you're a bit of a douchebag. They took Palestine by force, they took Sinai in cahoots with the Brits and French who were pissed at Egypt nationalising the Suez. They never gave back the West Bank, never gave back Shebaa Farms, never gave back the Golan Heights, never reparated or allowed the return of the hundreds of thousands they drove off their property in 1948. You seem to have your wires crossed - the only thing they ever gave back was Sinai. Their withdrawal from Gaza was a tactical maneouvre in that if they eventually had to annex it the Jewish majority would not have been sustained.

So yeah the Brits and Americans gave back the lands they fought on in WWII. But they were never fighting with the aim of territorial expansion. They were seeking to defeat tyrants. Israel's attitude has always been 'Grab every hilltop'. David Ben Gurion puts it quite aptly though: "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country."

Your attitude with respect to eastern Europe under the USSR is fairly hilarious. Were they in a position to make demands? No. Should they hope to see justice restored and to be reunited with their brethren in the west with full self determination? Fuck yes. I take heart in the fact that that's exactly what they got in 1989 - justice can take a long time but one should always strive for it and not lose hope.

You're little failure spiel seems to suggest the following (in your favoured playground terms): Let's kick the disabled child til he's a bloody mess and steal his bicycle and if he comes back looking for it let's do it again, and again, and again. Fair enough: if you're a cunt, you're a cunt, and that's your prerogative. 

Iconic Irony wrote:

It goes on and on and on.  How many fucking chances and failures do you want to give them?  You do realize that at this point the only way Palestine will ever get Israel back is for someone to literally go in for them and kick every single Israeli out for them and then hand them the country on the giant crybaby spoon they think they are entitled too, right?  Either that, or they can re-colonized the radioactive ashes after an Iranian nuclear strike, either way, Palestinians are a bunch of losers and crybabies.

You seem to believe Palestine wants the whole of Israel back. Most Palestinians aren't that stupid. Fatah recognise the internationally recognised state of Israel and the only reason they lost the last election was because they're a bunch of brown envelope corruption-merchants that any western nation would be proud of. You're totally off the fucking kilter if you think I'm talking about negating Israel's existence.

Iconic Irony wrote:

Just because you went there and heard the crybaby stories doesn't mean that they are suddenly the saddest fucking trip on Earth man.  Go visit Detroit someday on one of your vacations.

Because Detroit is soooooo relevant to the topic at hand. I've been to Schenectady and that was a ridiculous shithole - but it wasn't a patch on what Israel are being allowed to do without economic sanction or otherwise in Palestine. Double fucking standards.

Edit: I never realised that it's Cougar! The 'Irony' is that the Jews were and always have been the ones to complain about international inaction over the Nazi's horrible atrocities against the Jews. When the shoe is on the other foot, not so much (although organisations like B'tselem fly the flag). The Palestinians are having a go, unlike the Jews who left it far too late - not that it would have been easy under such a heinous oppressor.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2010-03-15 16:22:47)

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

I love how Schenectady is an internationally recognized shit hole

Upstate New York isn't all bad though. Or atleast parts of Albany aren't.

Albany is a overflowing cesspool.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

I love how Schenectady is an internationally recognized shit hole

Upstate New York isn't all bad though. Or atleast parts of Albany aren't.

Albany is a overflowing cesspool.

Of hypocrisy and total elitist bullshit, agreed.

"The 1949 war would have ended not with an armistice, but with a surrender. Palestinian refugees would have had to settle in new homes, just as the hundreds of thousands of Jews expelled from their former homes in the Arab lands resettled in Israel."

Sums it up. Mr. Frum wants THIS to happen... Bloody fucking revenge for what happened 2 thousand years ago...

Last edited by Trotskygrad (2010-03-15 20:06:50)

So, did these things not happen?

Egypt lost the Sinai Peninsula in 1956, but got it back. It lost the Sinai again in 1967, and again recovered it (although this time the right way, after signing a formal peace).

Syria lost the Golan in 1967, attacked Israel in 1973, lost again -- and still demands the return of the territory.

Palestinians rejected the 1947 partition, resorted to war, lost, and to this day demand compensation for their losses.

The Pals situation if the other Arabs would help them and not fence them in, like Jordan, would be different.


Instead the world gets a scape goat.



Sick of the lot of them tbh.

We should be attacking Mexico rather than wasting time and life in the ME.

CameronPoe wrote:

[article]A peace process intended to insulate the Arab world from the pain of defeat has condemned the Arab world -- and the Palestinian people above all -- to unending war.[/article]

That's something you could tie in with the theory that the west destabilizes outside powers to ensure their own dominance. The article is morally bankrupt, but so is the prolonged conflict. It got that much right.

It's kind of a Starship Troopers mindset. Might may not make right, but it gets the job done.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2010-03-15 21:55:06)

HollisHurlbut wrote:

Seriously, they want a "two state solution"?  They already had one.  The British Mandate was split into Israel and Jordan.  There are your two states.  What they really want now is a three state solution.  Presumably, that's just the stepping stone to a one state solution: Palestine.  There is no reason at all Israel should be under any obligation to cede the West Bank and Gaza to the "Palestinians" or anyone else.  A bunch of nations started a war and Israel won it.  You know what generally happens when you lose a war?  You also lose some territory.  And that's exactly what happened here.

Like when Ireland lost to the crown forces of the United Kingdom? Just sit there and take it because you're weaker? Retarded attitude. You keep fighting for justice. Just as you would if hypothetically subjugated by China, say, or just as the French did under Nazi Germany or the Afghans did under the USSR. The UN partition plan had NO sign-ups from any of the affected parties other than a pre-existent Israel! The Brits withdrew and then the European immigrants that had swamped Palestine under Britain militarily carved out a niche for themselves. Let's just say it's just as well the US is militarily stronger than Mexico.

HollisHurlbut wrote:

I'm of the opinion that if Israel really wants to give up the West Bank and Gaza, it should return them to Jordan and Egypt.  A thousand bucks says there's still no Palestinian state after that happens, but you wouldn't be seeing bombs go off in Amman or Cairo.  There's a reason they go off in Tel Aviv and Haifa, and it's only incidentally related to the West Bank and Gaza.

The Palestinians don't want to be Egyptian and they don't want to be Jordanian. They're from the old Ottoman province of Palestine - not Egpyt and not Jordan. That's where there homes and families are. The Egyptians and Jordanians would never take them anyway. Have you seen the way Egypt has happily been blockading the Gaza strip of late?

Last edited by CameronPoe (2010-03-16 01:19:27)

Iconic Irony wrote:

The next time the shit breaks off, everyone should get the fuck back and let Israel do what Israel needs to do and let the bullshit be over with once and for all.

Sounds good, don't fly in fuel, munitions or provide up to the second satellite intel during the conflict this time.
Don't prevent Israel's enemies acquiring equal weapons technology either.
Don't threaten any potential winner (apart from Israel) with nuclear annihilation, it skews the field a bit and you're the one calling for a fair fight.

Palestine The Jews lost.  They will always lose, they are weak because of their past failures, they've been failing for th past 2,000 years straight.  They are not the first people in the history of the world to have had and to have lost, move on, get over it.
It goes on and on and on.  How many fucking chances and failures do you want to give them?  You do realize that at this point the only way Palestine the Jews will ever get Israel back peace is for someone to literally go in for them and kick every single Israeli Palestinian out for them and then hand them the country on the giant crybaby spoon they think they are entitled too, right?  Either that, or they can re-colonized the radioactive ashes after an American nuclear strike, either way, Palestinians the Jews are a bunch of losers and crybabies.

Fixed. See how your argument fails now.

Interesting that after all the help the US has given Israel, the hundreds of millions if not trillions of US taxpayers dollars they've received, the wars the US has fought for them, the heat and risk the US has taken threatening Iran on Israel's behalf, that the US and it citizens are now the number one target for jihadists, the best Israel can do for the US is say 'Go fuck yourself'.

And yet the US still supports Israel....

There is so much blatant stupidity in this thread it is amazing.

Dumbshit wrote:

Palestine The Jews lost.  They will always lose, they are weak because of their past failures, they've been failing for th past 2,000 years straight.  They are not the first people in the history of the world to have had and to have lost, move on, get over it.
It goes on and on and on.  How many fucking chances and failures do you want to give them?  You do realize that at this point the only way Palestine the Jews will ever get Israel back peace is for someone to literally go in for them and kick every single Israeli Palestinian out for them and then hand them the country on the giant crybaby spoon they think they are entitled too, right?  Either that, or they can re-colonized the radioactive ashes after an American nuclear strike, either way, Palestinians the Jews are a bunch of losers and crybabies.

Jews?  Losers?  Really?  Failing for 2000 years?  Lol.  Yes because escaping slavery from the worlds greatest super power at the time, then going on to conquer and exterminate and entire country with nothing but people who've been wondering around in a desert for 40 years, surviving the holocaust, having the youngest most successful country in the dirtiest shittiest area on Earth for 60 years and winning countless wars and campaigns while outnumbered and surrounded.........ohhh yeah, we got a candidate right here for worlds biggest loser, let me fuckin tell ya!  Don't even get me started on Jews in the financial and entertainment sections or how little ole' Israel has the U.S. in it's back pocket. 

But your right.  Big failures.


Another thing is, what the hell do you people have against winners?  Israel won wars.  Won land.  Won their independence as far as I'm concerned.   When the conflict first started the Israeli's where outnumbered, out-gunned and surrounded, and they won and none of you bring that up.  All any of you bring up is that now a days Israel has tanks and their former enemies have rocks, well, they have rocks because THEY LOST.   The Palestinians are failures plain and simple and I can see why Cameron Poe would side with them, being Irish and all. 


I can see where your moral frustrations would kick in being from a country thats had another countries dong on it's back for the better part of a millennium.  But you see, all of the crushed rebellions, failed wars and lost lives on your behalf only go to prove one thing:  Britain has earned their right to be on YOUR soil and do what they wish, because THEY are winners and YOU are losers.  If you want Britain to leave you would have to WIN for once and they would have to LOSE for once.  Then we could all laugh as Britain demanded war reparations and settlement areas back from Ireland after they won, lmao.

Cybargs wrote:

Yassir Arafat is a cool guy, he won noble peace prize coz he promised to stop killing Jews.

I no rite?  Maybe we give one to Osama if he promised to stop crashing planes.

Cybargs wrote:

Iconic Irony wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Yassir Arafat is a cool guy, he won noble peace prize coz he promised to stop killing Jews.

I no rite?  Maybe we give one to Osama if he promised to stop crashing planes.

Being a half jew myself, I think if I go to Palestine and declare I'm a Jew they'll welcome me in open arms right? Since they're not bigots themselves at all.

I bet they would because they are the good guys according to CuntPoe.  I bet big bad bully Isreal wuld kill you via them gassing a neighborhood plaground for evil jew purposes..

Cybargs wrote:

Iconic Irony wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Being a half jew myself, I think if I go to Palestine and declare I'm a Jew they'll welcome me in open arms right? Since they're not bigots themselves at all.

I bet they would because they are the good guys according to CuntPoe.  I bet big bad bully Isreal wuld kill you via them gassing a neighborhood plaground for evil jew purposes..

Yeah the evil jews gassing innocent kids with zyklon b. This kid is going to grow up and become President of Palestine one day. See Hamas, teaches kids good things and provide them excellent jobs

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_A8NKQbSnkgQ/S … ld_web.jpg

Pure innocence right there.  Kindergarden was such a fun time.  Personally I liked 4th grade the best, thats when you get your real gun.


I still don't see why there is a conflict over there.  I blame the jews.  Israel is definitely the reason the conflict stays ignited through the generations.  Housing projects are DEVIOUS INDEED!