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2010-03-06 10:45:56
Benzin
Member
+576|6284
OK, I was reading through old threads to see what had been discussed in the recent past. Just want to add this:

If the fire arm industry had never been allowed to enter the private market and had remained strictly an industry that ONLY served the government (police, military, etc.), then we would more than likely not have the problem we have today where so many guns used in crimes are illegal weapons. If the sale of weapons had at the very least been strictly regulated FEDERALLY, rather than the various state laws that are in some places very lax (it can even vary from city to city in some places!), then there also would most likely not be so many illegal weapons floating around being used in crime.

The 2nd Amendment cannot be practically removed or rewritten, it won't happen. The Amendment Process is much too large to undertake. Better to impose extremely strict gun control laws and make the regulation of handgun sales even stricter than for a normal rifle. Make it all extremely strict and then make pistol regulations MORE strict.
2010-03-06 11:31:37
Canin
Conservative Roman Catholic
+280|6761|Foothills of S. Carolina

CapnNismo wrote:

OK, I was reading through old threads to see what had been discussed in the recent past. Just want to add this:

If the fire arm industry had never been allowed to enter the private market and had remained strictly an industry that ONLY served the government (police, military, etc.), then we would more than likely not have the problem we have today where so many guns used in crimes are illegal weapons. If the sale of weapons had at the very least been strictly regulated FEDERALLY, rather than the various state laws that are in some places very lax (it can even vary from city to city in some places!), then there also would most likely not be so many illegal weapons floating around being used in crime.

The 2nd Amendment cannot be practically removed or rewritten, it won't happen. The Amendment Process is much too large to undertake. Better to impose extremely strict gun control laws and make the regulation of handgun sales even stricter than for a normal rifle. Make it all extremely strict and then make pistol regulations MORE strict.
Yeah, because there are not a boatload of gun control laws on the books as it stands now. How bout this, the ones using the guns for illegal activities don't give a rats rear end about the laws in the first place, and adding more and stricter laws will end up only compromising the law abiding citizens while doing nothing to the criminals.
2010-03-06 11:56:37
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

CapnNismo wrote:

OK, I was reading through old threads to see what had been discussed in the recent past. Just want to add this:

If the fire arm industry had never been allowed to enter the private market and had remained strictly an industry that ONLY served the government (police, military, etc.), then we would more than likely not have the problem we have today where so many guns used in crimes are illegal weapons. If the sale of weapons had at the very least been strictly regulated FEDERALLY, rather than the various state laws that are in some places very lax (it can even vary from city to city in some places!), then there also would most likely not be so many illegal weapons floating around being used in crime.

The 2nd Amendment cannot be practically removed or rewritten, it won't happen. The Amendment Process is much too large to undertake. Better to impose extremely strict gun control laws and make the regulation of handgun sales even stricter than for a normal rifle. Make it all extremely strict and then make pistol regulations MORE strict.
Gun control laws simply restrict law abiding citizens from possessing firearms. They do not restrict the ability of criminals to own/possess a firearm.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-03-06 12:15:09
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

CapnNismo wrote:

OK, I was reading through old threads to see what had been discussed in the recent past. Just want to add this:

If the fire arm industry had never been allowed to enter the private market and had remained strictly an industry that ONLY served the government (police, military, etc.), then we would more than likely not have the problem we have today where so many guns used in crimes are illegal weapons. If the sale of weapons had at the very least been strictly regulated FEDERALLY, rather than the various state laws that are in some places very lax (it can even vary from city to city in some places!), then there also would most likely not be so many illegal weapons floating around being used in crime.

The 2nd Amendment cannot be practically removed or rewritten, it won't happen. The Amendment Process is much too large to undertake. Better to impose extremely strict gun control laws and make the regulation of handgun sales even stricter than for a normal rifle. Make it all extremely strict and then make pistol regulations MORE strict.
Historically, you're probably correct.

In a practical sense, however, the cat is out of the bag.  There's no going back to restricting guns this much, because we're not an island.  Smaller countries that are more geographically isolated can somewhat maintain stricter controls on guns, but it just wouldn't work here.

About the only increased restriction I support on guns is opening up mental health records to background checks.
2010-03-07 00:57:01
Benzin
Member
+576|6284
How would gun control laws prevent people from getting guns? It might take longer until the gun is in your hand, but what's the big deal there?

My argument is such: If you restrict the entire gun industry, it must also prevent guns getting onto the streets and into the hands of criminals. Certainly the guns that are already on the street before any such laws are passed will always be a problem, but if the police keep rounding them up, then the number will eventually have to go down. Restrict the flow and clean up what's already out there and eventually the numbers will go down.
2010-03-07 01:21:51
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

CapnNismo wrote:

How would gun control laws prevent people from getting guns? It might take longer until the gun is in your hand, but what's the big deal there?

My argument is such: If you restrict the entire gun industry, it must also prevent guns getting onto the streets and into the hands of criminals. Certainly the guns that are already on the street before any such laws are passed will always be a problem, but if the police keep rounding them up, then the number will eventually have to go down. Restrict the flow and clean up what's already out there and eventually the numbers will go down.
So are you willing to submit yourself and your family to a house to house search in order to weed out unlawful weapons caches? Are you willing to trade away your rights and those of others so easily? Are you willing to toss out the requirement for probably cause and a search warrant before conducting these searches and seizures? What are the unintended consequences?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-03-07 02:27:27
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7002

CapnNismo wrote:

How would gun control laws prevent people from getting guns? It might take longer until the gun is in your hand, but what's the big deal there?

My argument is such: If you restrict the entire gun industry, it must also prevent guns getting onto the streets and into the hands of criminals. Certainly the guns that are already on the street before any such laws are passed will always be a problem, but if the police keep rounding them up, then the number will eventually have to go down. Restrict the flow and clean up what's already out there and eventually the numbers will go down.
Why would a gang buy a 2000 dollar semi-auto AR when they can get a full auto for 200 dollars smuggled from El Salvador and various Central American shit holes?

Edit: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8553943.stm

Heard Gun control worked really well for Europe.

Last edited by Cybargs (2010-03-07 02:28:21)

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2010-03-07 11:11:58
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

CapnNismo wrote:

How would gun control laws prevent people from getting guns? It might take longer until the gun is in your hand, but what's the big deal there?

My argument is such: If you restrict the entire gun industry, it must also prevent guns getting onto the streets and into the hands of criminals. Certainly the guns that are already on the street before any such laws are passed will always be a problem, but if the police keep rounding them up, then the number will eventually have to go down. Restrict the flow and clean up what's already out there and eventually the numbers will go down.
Well, I hear ya, but it's just not practical.  Mexico has a ton of illegal guns.  It is true that some of them come from us, but most of them actually don't.  So even if we took the steps you mention, they could still smuggle them to our streets.

Gun control laws do work to an extent.  It's the bans that generally don't work, but background checks are a nice compromise.
2010-03-07 13:16:16
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|7000|US

CapnNismo wrote:

OK, I was reading through old threads to see what had been discussed in the recent past. Just want to add this:

If the fire arm industry had never been allowed to enter the private market and had remained strictly an industry that ONLY served the government (police, military, etc.), then we would more than likely not have the problem we have today where so many guns used in crimes are illegal weapons. If the sale of weapons had at the very least been strictly regulated FEDERALLY, rather than the various state laws that are in some places very lax (it can even vary from city to city in some places!), then there also would most likely not be so many illegal weapons floating around being used in crime.

The 2nd Amendment cannot be practically removed or rewritten, it won't happen. The Amendment Process is much too large to undertake. Better to impose extremely strict gun control laws and make the regulation of handgun sales even stricter than for a normal rifle. Make it all extremely strict and then make pistol regulations MORE strict.
That idea also defies the historical context of American government.  Simply put, people did not trust the federal government.  The federal government was ONLY intended to make laws in areas specifically enumerated to it--gun control didn't make the list.  Obviously, interpretations of the government's powers have vastly changed in the past 200+ years.

If the firearm industry was gutted today, and civilian guns were banned (which would violate the 2nd, even in the most narrow interpretation), it would take about 400 YEARS before the gun supply dried up (not including black market imports).  Also, killing a multi-billion dollar industry would also have some pretty severe side-effects.

 

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