BF2S Forums The Census

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Everyone in the US files tax returns?

Crazy. I've only ever filed one tax return. PAYE FTW.

We have the same type of system more or less.  But there are deductions and withholdings in addition to the deductions automatically taken out of most people's paychecks.  Sometimes we get a chunk of our withholdings back, sometimes we have to pay a little extra, depending on certain parameters that might change throughout the year (children, loss of job, house purchases, marraige, etc).

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

We have the same type of system more or less.  But there are deductions and withholdings in addition to the deductions automatically taken out of most people's paychecks.  Sometimes we get a chunk of our withholdings back, sometimes we have to pay a little extra, depending on certain parameters that might change throughout the year (children, loss of job, house purchases, marraige, etc).

But do the majority of people file tax returns? Over here I'm sure they don't. I had to last year so I could claim loads of stuff back, but usually I don't. I'll have to next year as well since I've been self employed for half of this year.

Surely it's more efficient to have as few people as possible filing tax returns and to have a system that deals with the entirety of most peoples income taxation?

Yes, everyone that has taxable income is required to file a return.

Bertster7 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

But do the majority of people file tax returns? Over here I'm sure they don't. I had to last year so I could claim loads of stuff back, but usually I don't. I'll have to next year as well since I've been self employed for half of this year.

Surely it's more efficient to have as few people as possible filing tax returns and to have a system that deals with the entirety of most peoples income taxation?

Yes, everyone that has taxable income is required to file a return.

Doesn't that cost the government lots of money?

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

But do the majority of people file tax returns? Over here I'm sure they don't. I had to last year so I could claim loads of stuff back, but usually I don't. I'll have to next year as well since I've been self employed for half of this year.

Surely it's more efficient to have as few people as possible filing tax returns and to have a system that deals with the entirety of most peoples income taxation?

Yes, everyone that has taxable income is required to file a return.

What if my pay was automatically withheld? I filed my return on Saturday, and I got zero bucks back from the Feds even though I only made like 500 dollars, and there was some problem filing my state return and it said I need to mail it in, which is a fucking pain in the ass when they calculated I'd only get $1 back from Maryland.

I don't see the point in filing if they already have your money and they're not giving any back.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Yes, everyone that has taxable income is required to file a return.

Doesn't that cost the government lots of money?

It's their own fault for making the tax code so opaque. Between itemized deductions and tax credits and everything else, paying your federal income taxes is not as simple as I made X amount of money this year, my income tax bracket is Y% so I pay X * Y% in taxes equaling Z.

Could be fixed with a simple flat tax of course... which I advocate...

Or you could go the Big Brother route and have a national database that collects and stores everyones information such as marriage status, dependents etc... This, thankfully, isn't really an option in this country

Bertster7 wrote:

A flat tax doesn't really make it any easier to implement than a multi tiered system

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

A flat tax doesn't really make it any easier to implement than a multi tiered system

but it does provide for that idiotic "american dream", you know. it endorses their idiotic desire to shit diamonds - for that they'd advocate anything.

Jealous that we can dream of being more than a heroin addict dying in government housing? I bet your parents miss the bread lines.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

It's their own fault for making the tax code so opaque. Between itemized deductions and tax credits and everything else, paying your federal income taxes is not as simple as I made X amount of money this year, my income tax bracket is Y% so I pay X * Y% in taxes equaling Z.

Could be fixed with a simple flat tax of course... which I advocate...

Or you could go the Big Brother route and have a national database that collects and stores everyones information such as marriage status, dependents etc... This, thankfully, isn't really an option in this country

Or could easily be fixed with a bracketed system, without load of extra complications for the average person. Keep the possibility for tax returns to deal with unusual cases but have more tax codes to cover everybody through monthly deductions from your pay.

A flat tax doesn't really make it any easier to implement than a multi tiered system - it's all the additions and deductions that make it complicated. Do away with them for the majority of people and it's easy to implement.

National database storing everyones income related information sounds like an excellent way of doing it.

What happens when you get a raise into the next bracket in the middle of the year? What happens if you get married or have a kid? There are thousands of reasons why people file returns and almost everyone has too much withheld during the year and gets a portion of their taxes returned to them.

JohnG@lt wrote:

As far as removing deductions and other things, special interest groups are the ones that have those placed in the tax code by our government. Remove the tax deduction for charitable donations and the charities scream etc.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Lastly, a national database is not an option. We Americans like our government being inefficient and ineffective. It was designed this way in order to maintain our personal liberty.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Pug wrote:

Flat tax is nice, 'cept for the part when people complain about losing that deduction or another.  And the fact it screws over the poor.

It doesn't screw over the poor, it screws over the politicians who now have many more voices holding them accountable in how they spend that tax money.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Jealous that we can dream of being more than a heroin addict dying in government housing? I bet your parents miss the bread lines.

you knowing nothing but your fucking "dream", man, doesn't make it any less absurd. and the sorry state russia's in these days is in direct result of your fucking californication having been sold here - in the place absolutely incompatible with it.
but i digress. go on, i've a huge popcorn can here, it goes extremely well with this thread.

The American Dream is simply Hope. People here hope and believe that they can do better in the world than their parents did and many meet that goal. There's nothing more to it than that. It's certainly nothing to spit on.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

What happens when you get a raise into the next bracket in the middle of the year? What happens if you get married or have a kid? There are thousands of reasons why people file returns and almost everyone has too much withheld during the year and gets a portion of their taxes returned to them.

Simple. You have the government determining how much tax you should pay, not the employee. Of course you have the opportunity to query or challenge how much you are paying, but it eliminates the need for a tax return for the majority of people. It works. It's the system in place here and it's very simple, easy and effective.

JohnG@lt wrote:

As far as removing deductions and other things, special interest groups are the ones that have those placed in the tax code by our government. Remove the tax deduction for charitable donations and the charities scream etc.

Again, here all of that is calculated automatically. You make the donation, provide your details to the charity and they get the tax you have paid on that money paid to them by the government.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Lastly, a national database is not an option. We Americans like our government being inefficient and ineffective. It was designed this way in order to maintain our personal liberty.

The price you pay for paranoia.

It sounds like you enjoy depending on the government, rather than yourself, to sort out your finances. To each his own.