So I think the conclusion we can come to is that the two higher education systems in Australia and the US are too disparate regarding the quality and cost of education to make comparisons.DrunkFace wrote:
Yeah... well for the 4 years I was at university I paid exactly $20 (for the ID card). I did leave with about an $18k debt to the Government, but then again it's interest free (adjusted to CPI) and I didn't have to start paying a cent back until I was earning more then $36k p.a. And what's more any citizen or permanent resident is just as eligible for the same deal assuming they get the marks in the final year(s) of high school, and a vast majority do. In the US you may have financial barriers but here there is no excuse.
Also if you get a scholarship that usually means you get paid to go to uni, not just paying for tuition.
Well, all (most) academic degrees have the same core requirements. English 101, 102, Calc, Physics, History etc... so it makes sense to bang out all those core classes for 1/5th the cost. The CC route is fine if you're using it as a jumping off point to a 4 year degree.DrunkFace wrote:
As weird as that may be, fact is you still need to go to a university to get the better qualifications. So who in their right mind would choose to go to an institution which doesn't offer the courses or qualifications they want, so in 2 years you might be able to transfer to one that does. Unless of course you had no choice because you couldn't get into a university. No one, that's who.
If you're going to CC route you fucked up somewhere in high school, the intelligent ones went straight to the big league, but good luck to you.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Even state school is relatively inexpensive here. I pay (or would pay if the Army wasn't picking up the tab) $13k a year including room and board. Tuition itself is about $6k per year. There's nothing particularly burdensome about $24k in debt from tuition after a four year degree... as long as you aren't an English major...DrunkFace wrote:
Yeah... well for the 4 years I was at university I paid exactly $20 (for the ID card). I did leave with about an $18k debt to the Government, but then again it's interest free (adjusted to CPI) and I didn't have to start paying a cent back until I was earning more then $36k p.a. And what's more any citizen or permanent resident is just as eligible for the same deal assuming they get the marks in the final year(s) of high school, and a vast majority do. In the US you may have financial barriers but here there is no excuse.
Also if you get a scholarship that usually means you get paid to go to uni, not just paying for tuition.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I'm sure you realize that for middle class students Ivy league schools are cheaper than state universities.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
Because of elitist faggotry.
@DrunkFace a lot of people can't afford the ivy league schools. Or maybe they were smart enough to get accepted but not enough to get full scholarships. So it makes more sense to go to a CC and a good state school. University of Virginia, Virginia Tech and William & Mary are all very highly regarded schools in the US, they're very cheap for Virginia residents, and you can get a guaranteed admission into them if you attend a Virginia Community College as long as you maintain a high GPA.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a Community College. Yeah for some people it's "13th grade", but they get weeded out pretty fast. For those who have to WORK to pay for college, it's a cheaper option than going four years at a state or private school.
And don't get me started on the value of vocational school... a lot of people are more talented at hands-on work like plumbing, which you can't learn at Harvard. Yet a good plumber can make about $50K a year or higher... not rich, but certainly better off than a lot of college graduates are currently making. And it can't get outsourced to India. And it'll always be in demand.
DrunkFace I don't know how things work over in Australia, but here in the US school is VERY expensive.
Sure, if they have 2400 on their SATs and a 4.0 GPA in high school. If you're rich or a legacy the standards are much, much lower.nukchebi0 wrote:
I'm sure you realize that for middle class students Ivy league schools are cheaper than state universities.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I know what you're trying to say, but not everybody gets financial aid or scholarships from HYPSM. (That's college-forum-nerd talk for Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT... nukchebi knows wutz up yo)nukchebi0 wrote:
I'm sure you realize that for middle class students Ivy league schools are cheaper than state universities.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
Because of elitist faggotry.
@DrunkFace a lot of people can't afford the ivy league schools. Or maybe they were smart enough to get accepted but not enough to get full scholarships. So it makes more sense to go to a CC and a good state school. University of Virginia, Virginia Tech and William & Mary are all very highly regarded schools in the US, they're very cheap for Virginia residents, and you can get a guaranteed admission into them if you attend a Virginia Community College as long as you maintain a high GPA.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a Community College. Yeah for some people it's "13th grade", but they get weeded out pretty fast. For those who have to WORK to pay for college, it's a cheaper option than going four years at a state or private school.
And don't get me started on the value of vocational school... a lot of people are more talented at hands-on work like plumbing, which you can't learn at Harvard. Yet a good plumber can make about $50K a year or higher... not rich, but certainly better off than a lot of college graduates are currently making. And it can't get outsourced to India. And it'll always be in demand.
DrunkFace I don't know how things work over in Australia, but here in the US school is VERY expensive.
I go to a community college, and it has a variety of people in it. The majority are stupid degenerates who can't hack it in the real world. There are a few people who are truly smart and deserving of a good education, which they surprisingly get, and move on to a 4 year university and such what. The main attraction with the CC i go to is the half price tuition when you transfer to a state college after 2 years (need a 2.5 GPA to do it, but thats easy enough.)
I hope you were being sarcastic, because technical/community colleges are not exclusively meathead/bimbo classes.DrunkFace wrote:
They are for the people who can't get into university... How can't you 'look down' on them, they ARE a second choice. They also offer courses like waitressing and bar tending which is so highbrow.
i'll apply my universal answer to this
because some people are just assholes
because some people are just assholes
And if you're smart you get GPA inflation ftw/unnamednewbie13 wrote:
I hope you were being sarcastic, because technical/community colleges are not exclusively meathead/bimbo classes.DrunkFace wrote:
They are for the people who can't get into university... How can't you 'look down' on them, they ARE a second choice. They also offer courses like waitressing and bar tending which is so highbrow.
And y'know what, even if Community College isn't as "good" as four-year schools, doesn't everyone agree that the more educated a populace is, the better? Some people screw up in high school or make a wrong decision but really do want to turn their life around. Community college gives them an affordable opportunity to do so.
You study those sorts of things on a degree?JohnG@lt wrote:
Well, all (most) academic degrees have the same core requirements. English 101, 102, Calc, Physics, History etc... so it makes sense to bang out all those core classes for 1/5th the cost. The CC route is fine if you're using it as a jumping off point to a 4 year degree.DrunkFace wrote:
As weird as that may be, fact is you still need to go to a university to get the better qualifications. So who in their right mind would choose to go to an institution which doesn't offer the courses or qualifications they want, so in 2 years you might be able to transfer to one that does. Unless of course you had no choice because you couldn't get into a university. No one, that's who.
If you're going to CC route you fucked up somewhere in high school, the intelligent ones went straight to the big league, but good luck to you.
They don't expect you to know all that when you get there? Isn't that what school is for?
Every course I took was directly related to my degree.
In the US system, every degree program has prerequisites. You can test out of them, of course...but the courses listed (English I & II, basic math and science, etc) are all required for follow-on courses. I guess the theory is that the university wants to ensure everyone has a common baseline coming in to the major coursework since our public school system is so varied at the secondary level.Bertster7 wrote:
You study those sorts of things on a degree?JohnG@lt wrote:
Well, all (most) academic degrees have the same core requirements. English 101, 102, Calc, Physics, History etc... so it makes sense to bang out all those core classes for 1/5th the cost. The CC route is fine if you're using it as a jumping off point to a 4 year degree.DrunkFace wrote:
As weird as that may be, fact is you still need to go to a university to get the better qualifications. So who in their right mind would choose to go to an institution which doesn't offer the courses or qualifications they want, so in 2 years you might be able to transfer to one that does. Unless of course you had no choice because you couldn't get into a university. No one, that's who.
If you're going to CC route you fucked up somewhere in high school, the intelligent ones went straight to the big league, but good luck to you.
They don't expect you to know all that when you get there? Isn't that what school is for?
Every course I took was directly related to my degree.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
In that case Community College sounds like a great way of getting through the early steps of a degree on the cheap.FEOS wrote:
In the US system, every degree program has prerequisites. You can test out of them, of course...but the courses listed (English I & II, basic math and science, etc) are all required for follow-on courses. I guess the theory is that the university wants to ensure everyone has a common baseline coming in to the major coursework since our public school system is so varied at the secondary level.Bertster7 wrote:
You study those sorts of things on a degree?JohnG@lt wrote:
Well, all (most) academic degrees have the same core requirements. English 101, 102, Calc, Physics, History etc... so it makes sense to bang out all those core classes for 1/5th the cost. The CC route is fine if you're using it as a jumping off point to a 4 year degree.
They don't expect you to know all that when you get there? Isn't that what school is for?
Every course I took was directly related to my degree.
For high school do you guys not select a few subjects to study exclusively? Students here aged 16-18 pick 3-4 subjects to do A-Levels in (or gay easy AS-levels these days (and yes they are easier I've done A-levels and AS-levels and the A-levels were WAY harder)).
Here you might have spent 2 years studying Maths, Physics and Computer Science then when you go and do a degree in something like Engineering or Physics then you are already fairly well prepared. I'm a big supporter of the idea of specialising as early as possible - play to your strengths and don't waste time on your weaknesses.
Varies state-to-state and really district-to-district here. For example, the high school I attended didn't really have a college prep program. Very few advanced placement (college prep) courses, and those were only in English. Our "advanced" math courses were trig and "math analysis" (pre-calc). Didn't get aglebraic physics until my senior year...and then we ended up teaching ourselves because the wrestling coach they selected to teach the course was so outdated that he was further behind than we were. Other schools had established AP courses in calc and physics that prepared their juniors and seniors so that they could either test out or simply ace the courses to pad their GPA when they entered college.Bertster7 wrote:
In that case Community College sounds like a great way of getting through the early steps of a degree on the cheap.FEOS wrote:
In the US system, every degree program has prerequisites. You can test out of them, of course...but the courses listed (English I & II, basic math and science, etc) are all required for follow-on courses. I guess the theory is that the university wants to ensure everyone has a common baseline coming in to the major coursework since our public school system is so varied at the secondary level.Bertster7 wrote:
You study those sorts of things on a degree?
They don't expect you to know all that when you get there? Isn't that what school is for?
Every course I took was directly related to my degree.
For high school do you guys not select a few subjects to study exclusively? Students here aged 16-18 pick 3-4 subjects to do A-Levels in (or gay easy AS-levels these days (and yes they are easier I've done A-levels and AS-levels and the A-levels were WAY harder)).
Here you might have spent 2 years studying Maths, Physics and Computer Science then when you go and do a degree in something like Engineering or Physics then you are already fairly well prepared. I'm a big supporter of the idea of specialising as early as possible - play to your strengths and don't waste time on your weaknesses.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Yeah, schools over here don't really see specialising as the way to go. I probably could have completed all of my core business studies within 4-5 semesters but instead the school decided that we needed to be more well rounded. So I also had to learn about African music, and rocks, and Ganymede.Bertster7 wrote:
In that case Community College sounds like a great way of getting through the early steps of a degree on the cheap.
For high school do you guys not select a few subjects to study exclusively? Students here aged 16-18 pick 3-4 subjects to do A-Levels in (or gay easy AS-levels these days (and yes they are easier I've done A-levels and AS-levels and the A-levels were WAY harder)).
Here you might have spent 2 years studying Maths, Physics and Computer Science then when you go and do a degree in something like Engineering or Physics then you are already fairly well prepared. I'm a big supporter of the idea of specialising as early as possible - play to your strengths and don't waste time on your weaknesses.
No. In high school I took four years of math: algebra, geometry, trigonometry and pre-calculus. Four years of English courses consisting of composition and literature, three years of foreign language (Spanish for me), Biology, Chemistry, Physics and an elective of Advanced Physics, Environmental Science or Marine Bio (I took this one, spent half of my afternoons at the beach ftw ), History courses consisting of Ancient Civilizations, American History and in my case AP Euro History.Bertster7 wrote:
In that case Community College sounds like a great way of getting through the early steps of a degree on the cheap.FEOS wrote:
In the US system, every degree program has prerequisites. You can test out of them, of course...but the courses listed (English I & II, basic math and science, etc) are all required for follow-on courses. I guess the theory is that the university wants to ensure everyone has a common baseline coming in to the major coursework since our public school system is so varied at the secondary level.Bertster7 wrote:
You study those sorts of things on a degree?
They don't expect you to know all that when you get there? Isn't that what school is for?
Every course I took was directly related to my degree.
For high school do you guys not select a few subjects to study exclusively? Students here aged 16-18 pick 3-4 subjects to do A-Levels in (or gay easy AS-levels these days (and yes they are easier I've done A-levels and AS-levels and the A-levels were WAY harder)).
Here you might have spent 2 years studying Maths, Physics and Computer Science then when you go and do a degree in something like Engineering or Physics then you are already fairly well prepared. I'm a big supporter of the idea of specialising as early as possible - play to your strengths and don't waste time on your weaknesses.
Then there were free elective periods where you could take Art or a CS class etc (CS for me).
It's what I believe they call a Classical Education. Basic foundation in everything but no specialization in anything.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
You know all about college forums, obviously.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
I know what you're trying to say, but not everybody gets financial aid or scholarships from HYPSM. (That's college-forum-nerd talk for Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT... nukchebi knows wutz up yo)nukchebi0 wrote:
I'm sure you realize that for middle class students Ivy league schools are cheaper than state universities.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
Because of elitist faggotry.
@DrunkFace a lot of people can't afford the ivy league schools. Or maybe they were smart enough to get accepted but not enough to get full scholarships. So it makes more sense to go to a CC and a good state school. University of Virginia, Virginia Tech and William & Mary are all very highly regarded schools in the US, they're very cheap for Virginia residents, and you can get a guaranteed admission into them if you attend a Virginia Community College as long as you maintain a high GPA.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a Community College. Yeah for some people it's "13th grade", but they get weeded out pretty fast. For those who have to WORK to pay for college, it's a cheaper option than going four years at a state or private school.
And don't get me started on the value of vocational school... a lot of people are more talented at hands-on work like plumbing, which you can't learn at Harvard. Yet a good plumber can make about $50K a year or higher... not rich, but certainly better off than a lot of college graduates are currently making. And it can't get outsourced to India. And it'll always be in demand.
DrunkFace I don't know how things work over in Australia, but here in the US school is VERY expensive.
Anyways, the real point was just to tell you not to make blanket statements regarding the infeasibility of attending a private school for those who are not obscenely rich.
Berster7 I got ~30 hours of applicable credit to my degree from high school. I got more than that but a fair bit of it overlaps.
AP's FTW. My school doesn't provide the ones I want (even though we call ourselves a college prep school...) I wants mah APUSH and AP Econ
My schools' AP classes were indistinguishable from the normal ones. First month of AP English focused on the basic parts of speech. Lame.Cybargs wrote:
AP's FTW. My school doesn't provide the ones I want (even though we call ourselves a college prep school...) I wants mah APUSH and AP Econ
Grades inflation ftw lel.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
My schools' AP classes were indistinguishable from the normal ones. First month of AP English focused on the basic parts of speech. Lame.Cybargs wrote:
AP's FTW. My school doesn't provide the ones I want (even though we call ourselves a college prep school...) I wants mah APUSH and AP Econ