ruisleipa wrote:
FEOS wrote:
If your point was that you can't be even remotely objective about any topic that even tangentially touches on the Israel/Palestine issue...then yes, you've made your point quite clearly.
No that wasn't my point, as you well know. but I couldn't care less if you take it that way. I've never tried justifying Hamas' more reprehensible actions, nor Israel's.
Your definition of propaganda is incorrect. "the use of information to get a target audience to think/behave the way you want them to" is so vague it applies to practically anyone's voiced opinion on any subject ever. Please don't patronise me before you look up the word in a dictionary.
I'm not patronizing you, smartass. I'm trying to educate you. If you don't want to hear from someone who's got 9+ years' experience in the subject matter, that's your choice. Quite frankly, I don't need to look in a dictionary to understand the topic. Clearly you need to do a lot more than just look in a dictionary to have even a modicum of understanding of the topic.
ruisleipa wrote:
Why should any country take in palestinians? Palestinians should be able to live in peace IN PALESTINE. Israel closes the border, they can't move around at will, taking them in would a) be a tacit recognition that Israel has the right to kick them out of their own country, and b) cause potentially serious social and economic problems in those countries. It wouldn't make any sense unless they could be guaranteed the right of return, which of course Israel would never agree to.
When you've got tens of thousands of refugees, you don't just let them sit there and refuse them then on the other hand say you are in solidarity with their struggle. That's the whole point of my statement. The fact that Palestinians should be able to live in peace in Palestine is frankly secondary to the fact that in their time of need their stated "Arab brothers" and other supporters have acted like anything but.
ruisleipa wrote:
Of course 'Israel could be in the right about something'. But they're not in the question under consideration concerning their use of assassination.
If you have some proof that Israel is behind this, then perhaps you should turn it over to Interpol. I'm sure they would be very grateful for the help it would provide in their investigation.
ruisleipa wrote:
I also can't be arsed rising to your vaguely insulting and personal attacks. I am being objective and consistent in my advocation of recognition of HRs and international law, something I am quite happy to assert that Israel is not and the more militant wing of Hamas do not either. As I have said several times in this thread I would never condone attacks on civilians by any parties. I don't condone assassinations by any parties either. Is that objective enough for you? you would notice if you actually read and try to understand my posts without just assuming I'm saying something without me actually saying it.
What "vaguely insulting and personal attacks" would you be referring to? If you think you've got something that amount to that, then report it and I'll be more than happy to discuss it with a mod. Otherwise, go take your inner child for a timeout.
Your position vis a vis anything involving Israel from day one has been anything BUT objective. If you can't be man enough to even admit something as simple to prove as that, you should just fold up camp and move along.
ruisleipa wrote:
My beliefs come from thinking about justice and rights. I've never read any text by al qaeda or whoever on the situation so I don't see how I can be under the propaganda machine of the arab world's influence. All my reading material is from Western sources. Exactly which parts of my posts do you consider to be based on arab or al qaeda/gaddafi/hussein 'propaganda'?
/headdesk
You don't have to read their fucking doctrine manuals to be influenced by their propaganda. Propaganda need not be overt. In fact, the most effective propaganda is the opposite.
The parts of your posts where you call the Israeli/Palestinian conflict the source of anti-Western sentiment and terrorism. It simply isn't. It's a convenient excuse used by those parties, who would have a different excuse if that one wasn't there. Their core problems with the West lie elsewhere, as evidenced by their utter lack of regard for the actual plight of the Palestinian people.
ruisleipa wrote:
If you want, feel free to let us all know what in your opinion would be a perfectly 'objective' viewpoint on either the assassination in the OP (yeah yeah assuming it was mossad etc) or Israel/Palestine in general. Since you're very good at criticising other people without actually giving any opinion of your own.
Already done. If you bothered to take off your blinders, you would've seen it.
ruisleipa wrote:
But whatever, frankly. Like I said, I made my point, you take it as you will and be all holier-than-thou. As I said before, I believe HR should be respected by everyone. But Israel consistently behaves more reprehensibly than almost any country on earth with regards to HRs since South Africa dropped apartheid. You can fiddle around with that all you like, but that's the truth. It's not propaganda to think so. But you seem to think anyone who criticises Israel or holds a different opinion to you is under the sway of 'propaganda'. Laughable. I can't convince you otherwise, although next time a related thread comes up and I comment in it, feel free to repeat yourself.
g'night.
That's not at all what I said. Go back and read
what I actually said WRT propaganda vis a vis the Israeli/Palestinian situation.
