BF2S Forums Japan Overtakes China as Largest Creditor to US

Varegg wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Varegg wrote:

The politicians represent the people aka they are the people ... if you claim fiscal irresponsibility over the last 80 years you actually admit that capitalism in it's purest form doesn't work ...

Umm... no. The 80 year mark is from when FDR was president and turned us from a capitalist economy into a mixed economy. The socialist half is what is fucking over this country in the long term. Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security are bankrupting this country.

Has nothing to do with a failure of capitalism.

The socialist half?

First attempt even resembling a hint of socialism in the US came with Hillary Clinton as the Presidents wife and that was torpedoed fast and efficiently, if it came to pass back then you would have had UHC for the last 20 years and the short time cost would have been taken at the time when your nation could afford it ... nice going!

And how exactly is Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security bankrupting your country today? ... because that's not it really, overspending in general is your problem and that is connected with how your kind of capitalism have failed utterly ...

I don't really want to go through it all again...



Here. See the big three? Medicare/SS/Defense. Republicans always want to cut taxes and expand Defense and Medicare spending because it wins them votes even though it's illogical. When Democrats gain power they always try to raise taxes and add more spending instead of paying off the debt. It's got nothing to do with a failure of capitalism, it has to do with a failure of politics. Even if everything but the big three was cut entirely out of the budget, we would've had a budget shortfall of $218B last year. Taxes are too low and it's political suicide to raise them. That is why we have the deficit. It's not because we as Americans can't actually afford this stuff, they just don't want to pay for it.

As I've told you many times before, the only reason your system works in Norway is because you have half the population of New York City and the oil deposits of Saudi Arabia. Without that oil you'd be just as dirt poor as you were throughout the rest of history. Not only does your system not work in reality without extreme circumstances helping it along, Socialism is nothing more than a return to serfdom. It doesn't make you free or equal, it enslaves you.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-02-18 06:13:42)

Varegg wrote:

Sorry to disappoint you John but capitalism is your politics, so if your politics fail ... capitalism fails ...

You keep stressing the point that Norway has such a small population and that we tap oil from our kitchen sinks ... and yes we are lucky to have oil on our doorstep but that doesn't mean it's the sole reason for a working socialistic/capitalistic government that takes care of it's people ...

How do you then explain that the same system of government in Sweden, Denmark and Finland works equally well without huge oil-deposits?

Yes they don't have the same surplus economy but they do produce balanced budgets pretty similar to Norway in content and scale, at least close enough for a comparison ...

Free or equal? ... don't make me laugh, if anything enslaves you it would be overspending and borrowing money it will you eons to pay back ...

And concerning your pie chart, the parts with medicare/aid and social security will not get bigger with UHC but better, maybe even smaller when UHC is established after a few years ...

You come off as pretty book smart John but your rational thinking is yet not fully developed ...

Nice ad hominem attack there, gonna give yourself a warning?

Capitalism is not a political system, it is an economic system. Socialism is both a political system and an economic system. I really wish that you could see how destructive your socialist system is to personal freedom because you'll never get it as long as you stay within your cocoon up there in Norway. Hell, you'd probably run back to the warmth of the womb because not only being able to, but being forced to, make your own decisions and being completely responsible for your own well being would probably frighten you.

As for the other countries... Sweden has IKEA and mining, Denmark has Maersk and Finland has Nokia. Three big companies between three countries. Small populations, high taxes and shitty weather. Unsustainable over the long term, sorry, which is why Sweden has become ever more capitalist over the past thirty years.

Ad hominem

I'll leave other mods to take care of that report tbh

Do communists regard their system as failed?

IKEA is a private company, Maersk is a private company, Nokia is a private company ... has little or nothing to do with balancing a budget or securing a social safety net for the populace ...

I mentioned the Nordic countries in particular because the conditions are very similar ... the ideology is the same, Sweden is perhaps a tad more capitalistic than Norway but the same social programs takes effect ...

Never said I was an expert but it really doesn't take an expert to notice flaws of your capitalism and ours ... and yes, capitalism is a political system ... maybe not in your economic ABC John but irl it is ...