Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England
When Obama was elected the right wing cried and declared it the end of the world.

When Brown was elected and the SCOTUS freed corporate spending on campaigns the left wing has cried and declared it the end of the world.

Why so much hyperbole? Why does it seem like everyone is about to jump from a high place?

There seems to have been a lot of irrationality and idealism built up over the years that has deflated all at once and pushed people into a malaise. Kind of disheartening to witness. I for one have never had any illusions about who runs the country and the world. We're all one of what? Six billion people on the planet? Unless you're actively working to set yourself above the rest and actually have an impact why would anyone honestly care about you or your opinions? This inflated sense of self worth based solely on the fact that one exists is really self defeating.

Either stop fantasizing about a distant past where people looked out for each other, because no such world has ever existed, or go back into your TV induced comas. The past few years where everyone has gotten involved in some form of politics and had opinions based on incomplete information is really rather trying. I guess I'm just tired of the ignorance that most people display on a daily basis. The internet has made this a million times worse because it's now harder than ever to rise above the din of peoples emotions and actually be heard. It's lowered peoples attentions spans down to nil and actually made us all semi-retarded, far more than TV alone ever did. Try having a conversation with a random person you meet and you'll find that their knowledge is based entirely on snippets of snippets of information that when compiled doesn't have any cohesion or really make any sense but they are more than willing to dump this load of excrement in your lap. Is it any wonder that most geniuses are at least partially insane? It's got to be very lonely.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6993|67.222.138.85

JohnG@lt wrote:

Why so much hyperbole? Why does it seem like everyone is about to jump from a high place

...

We're all one of what? Six billion people on the planet? Unless you're actively working to set yourself above the rest and actually have an impact why would anyone honestly care about you or your opinions? This inflated sense of self worth based solely on the fact that one exists is really self defeating.

...

The past few years where everyone has gotten involved in some form of politics and had opinions based on incomplete information is really rather trying. I guess I'm just tired of the ignorance that most people display on a daily basis. The internet has made this a million times worse because it's now harder than ever to rise above the din of peoples emotions and actually be heard.
Like someone saying jump out of the stock market because Bernake isn't going to be appointed?
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5523|Cleveland, Ohio

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Like someone saying jump out of the stock market because Bernake isn't going to be appointed?
SNAP
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Why so much hyperbole? Why does it seem like everyone is about to jump from a high place

...

We're all one of what? Six billion people on the planet? Unless you're actively working to set yourself above the rest and actually have an impact why would anyone honestly care about you or your opinions? This inflated sense of self worth based solely on the fact that one exists is really self defeating.

...

The past few years where everyone has gotten involved in some form of politics and had opinions based on incomplete information is really rather trying. I guess I'm just tired of the ignorance that most people display on a daily basis. The internet has made this a million times worse because it's now harder than ever to rise above the din of peoples emotions and actually be heard.
Like someone saying jump out of the stock market because Bernake isn't going to be appointed?
No, that was sound advice.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5523|Cleveland, Ohio
its doom and gloom if you work for toyota right now.  so much for quality.
13rin
Member
+977|6765
hehe.  The out party is always doom and gloom.  News usually reports only the bad stuff.  G-ma can't watch the news cause it freaks her out. There is always a chicken little crowd (gw people for example).  I used to care what other thought of me.  Quite liberating after I figured out that no one cares as most are too self involved.  Below the radar is quite attractive to me.  It is nice thought to debate opinions and thoughts with friends even though it won't likley change much.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

When Obama was elected the right wing cried and declared it the end of the world.

When Brown was elected and the SCOTUS freed corporate spending on campaigns the left wing has cried and declared it the end of the world.

Why so much hyperbole? Why does it seem like everyone is about to jump from a high place?

There seems to have been a lot of irrationality and idealism built up over the years that has deflated all at once and pushed people into a malaise. Kind of disheartening to witness. I for one have never had any illusions about who runs the country and the world. We're all one of what? Six billion people on the planet? Unless you're actively working to set yourself above the rest and actually have an impact why would anyone honestly care about you or your opinions? This inflated sense of self worth based solely on the fact that one exists is really self defeating.

Either stop fantasizing about a distant past where people looked out for each other, because no such world has ever existed, or go back into your TV induced comas. The past few years where everyone has gotten involved in some form of politics and had opinions based on incomplete information is really rather trying. I guess I'm just tired of the ignorance that most people display on a daily basis. The internet has made this a million times worse because it's now harder than ever to rise above the din of peoples emotions and actually be heard. It's lowered peoples attentions spans down to nil and actually made us all semi-retarded, far more than TV alone ever did. Try having a conversation with a random person you meet and you'll find that their knowledge is based entirely on snippets of snippets of information that when compiled doesn't have any cohesion or really make any sense but they are more than willing to dump this load of excrement in your lap. Is it any wonder that most geniuses are at least partially insane? It's got to be very lonely.
I know where you're coming from.  But as you've said, most people are that shortsighted.  Therefore, any attempts to change things for the better on a societal level are fleeting at best, because you know that people will eventually destroy what little you've accomplished.

Again, as you've said, why would anyone care about your opinion or mine?  I just come here because it's fun to shoot the shit.  I don't plan on applying any of my ideas beyond my own life.  When people actually think they can do more than that, they usually are sorely disappointed.

That's why, in real life, I usually don't discuss things like politics or religion.  The few times I do, I run across people that are depressingly ill-informed or so illogical that it's hard to repress the urge to just punch them in the face.

Online forums are a good way to vent frustrations, so you can't take them too seriously.

I definitely agree with you on the geniuses thing though.  That's why I'm glad I'm not a genius.  That would possibly suck more than being retarded.  At least if you're a retard, you're usually too stupid to know how fucked up things really are.
Ticia
Member
+73|5621
The obsession over politics has a lot to do with the recession. Unemployment rates are effectively higher, small biz is doomed and middle class is close to non existent. We went though probably worse times before but i'm an adult now, this shit affects me now.

You're right about the misinformation,but what bugs me the most about online opinions is the copy/paste.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

Ticia wrote:

The obsession over politics has a lot to do with the recession. Unemployment rates are effectively higher, small biz is doomed and middle class is close to non existent. We went though probably worse times before but i'm an adult now, this shit affects me now.

You're right about the misinformation,but what bugs me the most about online opinions is the copy/paste.
Small business is not doomed and the middle class is not non-existent. Statements like this are what I was talking about in the OP.

Now, if you want to say easy, artificial access to the middle class is disappearing, then you are correct. A high school education and a union factory job used to be the artificial path of least resistance into the ranks of the middle class. That's gone and I would say that it's a good thing because that easy path held us back for a very long time. People stopped caring about education and working hard because it wasn't necessary for success. This has now been changing and it will make us stronger in the long run.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Ticia
Member
+73|5621

JohnG@lt wrote:

Ticia wrote:

The obsession over politics has a lot to do with the recession. Unemployment rates are effectively higher, small biz is doomed and middle class is close to non existent. We went though probably worse times before but i'm an adult now, this shit affects me now.

You're right about the misinformation,but what bugs me the most about online opinions is the copy/paste.
Small business is not doomed and the middle class is not non-existent. Statements like this are what I was talking about in the OP.

Now, if you want to say easy, artificial access to the middle class is disappearing, then you are correct. A high school education and a union factory job used to be the artificial path of least resistance into the ranks of the middle class. That's gone and I would say that it's a good thing because that easy path held us back for a very long time. People stopped caring about education and working hard because it wasn't necessary for success. This has now been changing and it will make us stronger in the long run.
Tell that to the ones who had to close doors and to the college degree holders who can't find jobs. Everywhere i turn is what i see.

Well where do you want to put those factory workers if not in middle class?

If anyone had it easy was the children of rich parents who got them used to a lifestyle they can't afford now.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6815|Global Command
Some of your general questions can be answered thusly; people have to flail their arms and scream to get anything done. No one ever gets everything they want, so you have to propose radical change to get partial change.
As for why so much doom and gloom;

State muni bonds, that builder of bridges and freeways are no longer considered safe, and in fact are about to implode in at least four states.

All projected budget numbers are meaningless because tax receipts are shrinking like never before. Deficits will be the norm for the foreseeable future. Insolvency, currency collapse, and defaults are headlines, not fears.

Our economy was driven by two things; manufacturing and credit. Primarily home equity credit. Need I explain the dynamic shift that has occurred in these two areas?

Free trade agreements; NAFTA< GAFTA SKAT, you pick them. We were promised ' the jobs of the future ' in exchange for favorable tax benefits for shuttering factories. Now manufacturing has been gutted, no jobs have materialized and where exactly are people going to be working?

The costs of technology; let us look at industries decimated by progress.
Music studios, graphic design, print new media, brick and mortar establishments like book stores and film processors. These are just a few that come to mind of the trades marginalized by home computers. Progress you say. I ask, where are the jobs to replace these?

America had a economy driven by exports. Now it is driven by Walmarts and JP Morgans.

All good, as long as there is a plan for job replacement.


Obama announced an end to the moon mission that would have cost 20-40 billion or so. AIG got 720 billion, which was distributed in secret to a cadre of banks.

Somehow, covering bankers ' losses ' became more important than space exploration and our leaders keep harping on a " financial crysis the greatest we have seen since The great Depression " over and over again, making it so.


Why?

What is the end game that might sound good to honest freedom loving people?




My uncles fought he commies and socialist, now we have the head of the DNC saying the verdict is in on capitalism?
We had a republican nominee that has as a major claim to fame writing an amnesty bill that failed?
The bankers took the money supposedly meant for modifying mortgages and used it for bonuses and jacking up commodities and the stock market.
We are now in a war that has lasted twice as long as WW2 with no goal, no end in sight and no real clue as far as I can tell.


America has not been defeated, it has been offered up for surrender via self inflicted failure.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

Ticia wrote:

Tell that to the ones who had to close doors and to the college degree holders who can't find jobs. Everywhere i turn is what i see.
And what was their degree in? I'll never want for work in my life with my chosen degree path. I have zero sympathy for people who choose a degree path without a single thought to their future. They don't research the income they should expect, the job prospects etc and think that just because they graduated from college they are entitled to a good job. Doesn't work like that. A person with a degree in English hasn't increased their chance for success in life much more than a person with a high school diploma. There's just no need for them outside of teaching.

Well where do you want to put those factory workers if not in middle class?
Where do I want to put them? You mean where does the market dictate they belong. A factory job can be performed by a trained monkey in most cases. It takes zero education outside of rudimentary on the job training and it takes minimal thought. Because it can be performed by so many people (read: all but the most incompetent), the dictated wages for those jobs will and should be small. Your basic factory job is no more difficult to perform than working the register at McDonalds. The workers in these factories naturally fall into the working class, supervisors and middle management fall into the middle class and upper management and the CEO end up in the wealthy regions. This is the natural order of things, unions just artificially moved line workers into the ranks of the middle class. They didn't belong and it's been corrected by the market (with the help of cheap Chinese labor). The only reason that American factory workers ended up so well paid was because we as a country basically had a monopoly on things like cars. Henry Ford offered high wages and benefits to his workers because he could, his only competition was GM, and because the turnover rate for workers in his factories was ridiculously high because of the mind numbing nature of assembly line work. Times have changed and people have changed. Whether it's the effect from watching hours of TV every day that have numbed us to boredom or whatever else it is but people seem to have a higher tolerance for mind numbing and monotonous work now. The high wages are no longer necessary to keep people at their task without them quitting.

If anyone had it easy was the children of rich parents who got them used to a lifestyle they can't afford now.
Umm... yes. Kind of. It depends on what their parents taught them. If they somehow grew up believing that life was easy and they could do whatever they wanted in life and succeed then yes. The only people that I've come into contact with that had this misconception are the children of trophy wives who married into money.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-01-30 14:05:53)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6392|eXtreme to the maX
Why so much hyperbole? Why does it seem like everyone is about to jump from a high place?
Because it makes good TV news. 'Meh, so what, doesn't matter really' not so much.
Fuck Israel
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

Ticia wrote:

The obsession over politics has a lot to do with the recession. Unemployment rates are effectively higher, small biz is doomed and middle class is close to non existent. We went though probably worse times before but i'm an adult now, this shit affects me now.

You're right about the misinformation,but what bugs me the most about online opinions is the copy/paste.
Small business is not doomed and the middle class is not non-existent. Statements like this are what I was talking about in the OP.

Now, if you want to say easy, artificial access to the middle class is disappearing, then you are correct. A high school education and a union factory job used to be the artificial path of least resistance into the ranks of the middle class. That's gone and I would say that it's a good thing because that easy path held us back for a very long time. People stopped caring about education and working hard because it wasn't necessary for success. This has now been changing and it will make us stronger in the long run.
Economic mobility is a good thing...  well, until of course you realize that the only reason wealth can exist in the first place on a global scale is through exploiting other countries.

But it's alright...  soon enough there won't be much of a difference in the quality of life for the average person of the world regardless of country.  There won't be First World and Third World.  There will simply be a world full of countries with different elites running each one of them while the average person toils away in a factory.

The new Gilded Age will be a wondrous demonstration of what capitalism is really about....  exploitation.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Ticia wrote:

The obsession over politics has a lot to do with the recession. Unemployment rates are effectively higher, small biz is doomed and middle class is close to non existent. We went though probably worse times before but i'm an adult now, this shit affects me now.

You're right about the misinformation,but what bugs me the most about online opinions is the copy/paste.
Small business is not doomed and the middle class is not non-existent. Statements like this are what I was talking about in the OP.

Now, if you want to say easy, artificial access to the middle class is disappearing, then you are correct. A high school education and a union factory job used to be the artificial path of least resistance into the ranks of the middle class. That's gone and I would say that it's a good thing because that easy path held us back for a very long time. People stopped caring about education and working hard because it wasn't necessary for success. This has now been changing and it will make us stronger in the long run.
Economic mobility is a good thing...  well, until of course you realize that the only reason wealth can exist in the first place on a global scale is through exploiting other countries.

But it's alright...  soon enough there won't be much of a difference in the quality of life for the average person of the world regardless of country.  There won't be First World and Third World.  There will simply be a world full of countries with different elites running each one of them while the average person toils away in a factory.

The new Gilded Age will be a wondrous demonstration of what capitalism is really about....  exploitation.
Man, your world really got turned on it's head recently didn't it. You were more fun when you weren't ATG-like with the sky is falling stuff.

Besides, you have an econ degree, no? You should know better than to actually believe that last sentence you typed
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

Man, your world really got turned on it's head recently didn't it. You were more fun when you weren't ATG-like with the sky is falling stuff.

Besides, you have an econ degree, no? You should know better than to actually believe that last sentence you typed
I know enough about human nature to know that exploitation is always part of the equation.  Admittedly, that isn't so much the fault of capitalism as it is the nature of our species.

Capitalism would be a fine system otherwise.
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5545|foggy bottom
I thought you had an engineering degree
Tu Stultus Es
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

eleven bravo wrote:

I thought you had an engineering degree
John has an engineering degree.  I have an econ degree.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6576|Éire
So much media and yet so little information of worth.

With so many sources available to get 'news' these days it becomes increasingly difficult to develop a critical mind. John is correct that the internet makes it worse because the internet is unregulated, it's not like the publishing world where sources are peer-reviewed, or at the very least traceable and verifiable. There are plenty of people out there now who think subjective opinions on blogs equal 'news'. I've seen blogs cited so many times in here as 'evidence' to back up arguments that it's not even funny anymore.

As regards the way of the world these days? People look out for themselves and for family, friends, and loved ones. Beyond that, some society's have social structures that provide a support network and while they are not cuddly, fuzzy, utopian paradises they do at least ensure that if you put in a bit of effort you will not die alone on the side of the street. I'm speaking from an Irish/European point of view, I can't really speak for anywhere else as I've only ever visited other countries.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6961|Canberra, AUS
over my time i've come to realise that the ordinary citizen has not the slightest idea about the complexity and difficulty inherent to running a proper government.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6697|'Murka

I think it's because everyone's turned into a bunch of emo pussies.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7002

FEOS wrote:

I think it's because everyone's turned into a bunch of emo pussies.
lulz
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