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2010-01-15 04:26:39
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6961|Canberra, AUS

ruisleipa wrote:

Spark wrote:

It gets a bit desperate if some of yuou Americans are saying 'we're fat! Look at us! er...USA USA!??'
I think you need to take a few steps back here and actually read what you're writing. You make a fair point but ludicrous statements like these detract from the overall quality of your posts.
well I cold quote the guys who said that being fat is a sign of success. But they said it not me! It is a ludicrous statment isn't it?
I think you'll find they were being more than a little facetious. Or, at least, that it's not as straightforward as fat = good.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2010-01-15 04:28:25
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6509|teh FIN-land
well thats the eternal internet problem isn't it - you can't always tell when someone's being facetious or whatnot. Like you think I'm permanently arrogant, when in fact I'm trying to be lighthearted
2010-01-15 04:31:09
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6961|Canberra, AUS

ruisleipa wrote:

well thats the eternal internet problem isn't it - you can't always tell when someone's being facetious or whatnot. Like you think I'm permanently arrogant, when in fact I'm trying to be lighthearted
Well, realise that not everyone takes it that way.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2010-01-15 04:46:14
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6509|teh FIN-land

Spark wrote:

Well, realise that not everyone takes it that way.
yes sir.

(sarcasm in a mean way or sarcasm in a lighthearted way? tone of voice would tell you normally. So you could assume the best rather than the worst. )
2010-01-15 05:20:09
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6697|'Murka

Diesel_dyk wrote:

I think you are right that the US is in a decline for the past few decades, we've lost manufacturing and other industries.
Not to be contrarian, but the manufacturing thing is a myth. It was posted in another thread, but if our manufacturing sector was treated as a separate country for GDP comparison, it would be tied for #4 world-wide, I believe...just ahead of Germany, IIRC. And our overall GDP would still be #1 by a long shot.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-01-15 06:21:41
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6392|eXtreme to the maX
But the ratio of manufactured goods you export compared with those you import is what matters.
How big you are is irrelevant if you're bleeding faster than you're making up blood.
Fuck Israel
2010-01-15 06:30:09
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6697|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

But the ratio of manufactured goods you export compared with those you import is what matters.
How big you are is irrelevant if you're bleeding faster than you're making up blood.
How much bigger can we get, and to whose detriment? It's a zero sum game. I'm sure if we stopped buying what others manufactured in favor of our own to reduce that, people would scream that we were waging economic warfare or some other similar tripe.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-01-15 06:39:00
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7096|Nårvei

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Cybargs wrote:


Norway has a huge fucking economy...
No it doesn't It has a huge GDP per capita but that's because the entire population of the country is half the population of New York City and they're sitting on oil deposits Anyone in a similar situation would look good too.
Technically the economy is huge compared to most countries because we have absolutely no debt.
teddy teddy teddy ... tsk tsk tsk ... debt is the way to go, one measures a states sound economy by its debt these days, having billions in surplus is gay ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2010-01-15 07:29:19
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

But the ratio of manufactured goods you export compared with those you import is what matters.
How big you are is irrelevant if you're bleeding faster than you're making up blood.
No, it doesn't matter. You're looking at it in a very simplistic, mercantilist light. You're looking at it as the guy with the biggest pile of stuff is the winner because everyone else has to buy from him. The mercantilists (pre Adam Smith) looked at the world in the same light. They equated gold with wealth and it simply wasn't true.

Frankly, the service industry is vastly more important and leads to a vastly higher wage for the workers of your nation because the overhead is much much smaller than it is in the manufacturing sector. In a factory, the vast majority of the investment made is in capital goods like machinery to make it work. A much smaller piece of the revenue pie can then be given to the workers in the form of wages. Service industry jobs do not have this overhead. This is why bankers and the like make such high salaries in comparison to those that work in industry. All a bank needs to function is a few computers and brainpower.

The balance of trade deals with goods only. It has no way to account for services rendered and does not count them so our trade deficit with China looks bad to the laymen, but in reality is meaningless.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-15 08:05:37
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

Spark wrote:

It gets a bit desperate if some of yuou Americans are saying 'we're fat! Look at us! er...USA USA!??'
I think you need to take a few steps back here and actually read what you're writing. You make a fair point but ludicrous statements like these detract from the overall quality of your posts.
Someone posted this on another forum today...

https://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/ob//internet_graphic.jpg

See #4.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-15 08:34:48
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6828|Texas - Bigger than France

ruisleipa wrote:

hell man, I'm not sending you shit anyway! I'm not a flag-waver for any country, not Finland, the UK or any. Did you read my post about Nokia before? AFAIK they make their fuckin phones in China or some shit anyway.

You're PROUD your DOG eats better than most PEOPLE in the world? Then someone might say you're another arrogant prick aren't you? You should be ashamed we live in a world where people's pets are valued more than human lives. Imho.

or wait...was your whole post sarcastic? Oh well, apologies if I missed your point. If there was one!
First your sarcasm detector is broke.

Second, one point is to show this is a global issue you are blaming on the US.  Nokia is not innocent - they produce cell phones, in fact they PLAN for fast obsolence of their phones which leads to an accelerated curve for buying and e-waste.  Furthermore, they have completely bought into this philosophy by "making their fuckin phones in China" keeps the prices down so they can sell more phones.  If you don't see that as a problem...you have a narrow view.

Third, I said my dog eats better than someone in Bangladesh, not most people in the world.  Get it right.

Fourth, I don't have a dog.  But I am an arrogant prick.  But not because of the reasons within this post.

Fifth, ok, I lied about an arrogant prick.  Sorry, I know all of this is confusing to you.  I manage to confuse myself sometimes.  For instance, I currently hate the Moon.  I have no idea why.

Sixth, the purpose of the post is to deliver what you are looking for because you are being an ass for no reason.  I stated what you wanted to hear, in every shape, form and fashion.  Because, I'm not a prick.  I like to see people happy.
2010-01-15 10:22:35
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6887|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

The economy is anything but predictable. I saw a post of everything that was supposed to happen over the last year by so called economic experts. Laughable. I predict nearly no one getting it right this year.. again. If it were predictable, if people truly knew what was over the next hill then this economic slump wouldn't have been this severe. But they didn't.. although they did make money selling the idea of predictability to anyone gullible enough to believe their words.
Peter Schiff called it right, and he wasn't alone either.  People laughed at him, but in the end, he was the one laughing.

I'm not saying the majority view of economists is always right, but it's not always wrong either.

Yes, the economy is hard to predict over a short period of time, but there are basic observations and assumptions that can be made for longer periods of time.  The weather is much the same.
Yea I saw those "Peter Shiff was right" youtube videos too. Too bad his clients didn't. In 2002 he predicted the DOW at 4000. He was wrong in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, and the majority of 2006.

Had you listened to Mr. Schiff at anytime before Oct. 2007, you lost...big. To those who did, there is little consolation in the praise being heaped on him today.
It's the classic, "Even a broken clock is right twice a day" phenomenon.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2010-01-15 19:00:15
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Yea I saw those "Peter Shiff was right" youtube videos too. Too bad his clients didn't. In 2002 he predicted the DOW at 4000. He was wrong in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, and the majority of 2006.

Had you listened to Mr. Schiff at anytime before Oct. 2007, you lost...big. To those who did, there is little consolation in the praise being heaped on him today.
It's the classic, "Even a broken clock is right twice a day" phenomenon.
Touche...  I didn't know about that.  Still, I guess my question becomes this then...

Are you suggesting that the economy can't be predicted reliably, and if so...   then how can you reasonably invest in anything?

When you look at how unstable even real estate has been lately, what can you invest in that actually is safe?...
2010-01-15 19:04:41
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Yea I saw those "Peter Shiff was right" youtube videos too. Too bad his clients didn't. In 2002 he predicted the DOW at 4000. He was wrong in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, and the majority of 2006.

Had you listened to Mr. Schiff at anytime before Oct. 2007, you lost...big. To those who did, there is little consolation in the praise being heaped on him today.
It's the classic, "Even a broken clock is right twice a day" phenomenon.
Touche...  I didn't know about that.  Still, I guess my question becomes this then...

Are you suggesting that the economy can't be predicted reliably, and if so...   then how can you reasonably invest in anything?

When you look at how unstable even real estate has been lately, what can you invest in that actually is safe?...
T-bills.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-15 20:53:13
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7003

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Yea I saw those "Peter Shiff was right" youtube videos too. Too bad his clients didn't. In 2002 he predicted the DOW at 4000. He was wrong in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, and the majority of 2006.

Had you listened to Mr. Schiff at anytime before Oct. 2007, you lost...big. To those who did, there is little consolation in the praise being heaped on him today.
It's the classic, "Even a broken clock is right twice a day" phenomenon.
Touche...  I didn't know about that.  Still, I guess my question becomes this then...

Are you suggesting that the economy can't be predicted reliably, and if so...   then how can you reasonably invest in anything?

When you look at how unstable even real estate has been lately, what can you invest in that actually is safe?...
That's why there are risks in investing. The economy is never ever stable, because there would always be a few fuck tards that will ruin it (irresponsible investors).
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2010-01-15 20:55:09
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,056|7058|PNW

AussieReaper wrote:

Spark wrote:

Cold War and rise of militant Communism.
Militant Capitalism? Vietnam war. Korean War. Bay of Pigs.
Cold War tbh.
2010-01-15 22:18:14
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7003

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Spark wrote:

Cold War and rise of militant Communism.
Militant Capitalism? Vietnam war. Korean War. Bay of Pigs.
Cold War tbh.
Vietnam was a containment issue as well as an imperialistic one. It should have been France's responsibility in the first place.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2010-01-15 23:05:51
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6961|Canberra, AUS

Cybargs wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:


Militant Capitalism? Vietnam war. Korean War. Bay of Pigs.
Cold War tbh.
Vietnam was a containment issue as well as an imperialistic one. It should have been France's responsibility in the first place.
Maybe if everyone had just listened to what the people were saying and stayed the fuck away, we'd be seeing a stable, democratic Vietnam by now. Because in that case we probably wouldn't see Communism - that would mean letting in too much Chinese influence, not exactly a popular idea in the country.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2010-01-15 23:17:11
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,056|7058|PNW

Cybargs wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:


Militant Capitalism? Vietnam war. Korean War. Bay of Pigs.
Cold War tbh.
Vietnam was a containment issue as well as an imperialistic one. It should have been France's responsibility in the first place.
It was, but they gift-wrapped it and sent it to us for Christmas.
2010-01-15 23:32:53
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6993|67.222.138.85

Turquoise wrote:

Are you suggesting that the economy can't be predicted reliably, and if so...   then how can you reasonably invest in anything?
Why must there be crystal balls for there to be investment?

Nobody knows what's going to happen, but that doesn't stop people from investing in what they know are good ideas. Businesses that people personally or at least second hand know and have faith in.

You're asking for the kind of safe bet that everyone wants, but doesn't exist. The pursuit of which explains why we are where we are economically. Investment on top of investment on top of investment, because ultimately people would rather stuff their money away somewhere and let it do its own thing than take an active role in developing the worth of their assets.
2010-01-16 00:35:08
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6509|teh FIN-land

Pug wrote:

First your sarcasm detector is broke.
Nuff said tbh.

pug wrote:

Second, one point is to show this is a global issue you are blaming on the US.  Nokia is not innocent - they produce cell phones, in fact they PLAN for fast obsolence of their phones which leads to an accelerated curve for buying and e-waste.  Furthermore, they have completely bought into this philosophy by "making their fuckin phones in China" keeps the prices down so they can sell more phones.  If you don't see that as a problem...you have a narrow view.
And about Nokia - man I'm not blaming the entire US but you guys have a culture of greed and consumersism - yes like most of the Western world but so what? It's worse in the US than most places. Nokia are a mainly Finnish company, again so what? They're probably barely owned by Finns anymore, and even if they were, there are plenty of Finnish fuckers too! Just cos I'm (half) Finnish doesn't mean I automatically love every copany that comes from Finland! (Although for most Americnas here the knee-jerk reaction to any slight critixism of the US is to defend it). I couldn't give a fuck if they're Finnish or not. So yeah I see it as a problem, as you can see from my earlier post sometime in the pages of drivel before this one in this thread regarding the same Nokia - I'm sure you remember cos it was you who asked me about it. I even mentioned the obsolesence angle so ner.

ruisleipa wrote:

oh right, well, true, mobile phones are ridiculous in the way that so many are thrown away each year for example. I hate the fact that consumer electronics have built-in obsolecence so people just change them after a year or two - or even a few months. I hate the fact we are constantly told to buy buy buy more useless shit we don't need, phones included. The constant updating to new and 'better' phones pisses me off. I have a Nokia but it's about 7 years old (approximately - I bought it secondhand, but it has no colour screen, no music, no vid, no camera, none of that stuff. I can phone and SMS and that's it.) I'll keep using it until it dies and then buy another second-hand basic-as-you-can-get model. So yeah, all the suckers buying new phones every year...I hate that shit.

but, in Nokia's defence, not that they need it, but they are regularly awarded 'green' awards by various organisations:

http://www.nokia.com/environment/we-evo … ntribution

http://www.juniperresearch.com/futuremo … awards.php

I also understand they have a quite effective recycling scheme

http://www.nokia.com/environment/we-rec … to-recycle

Not that those things justify the tremendous waste involved with ALL electronic manufacturing.

And inb4 'you're a hypocrite'. Yeah sure I have a PC and a TV and whatnot. But, I can still hate buying shit just for the sake of buying it, and having the latest stuff and whatever.

And FatherTed no, it isn't just a US issue, but the original report mentioned in the article was about the US, hence the howls of outrage from certain Americans around here.

I'm the first to admit everyone has a role to play in reducing waste. Before you buy your next iphone or whatever gizmo ask yourself if you really need it.
2010-01-16 00:36:11
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6509|teh FIN-land

JohnG@lt wrote:

See #4.
so THAT'S where you get your inspirtion galt! You're just working your way through the list I see
2010-01-16 10:41:07
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Are you suggesting that the economy can't be predicted reliably, and if so...   then how can you reasonably invest in anything?
Why must there be crystal balls for there to be investment?

Nobody knows what's going to happen, but that doesn't stop people from investing in what they know are good ideas. Businesses that people personally or at least second hand know and have faith in.

You're asking for the kind of safe bet that everyone wants, but doesn't exist. The pursuit of which explains why we are where we are economically. Investment on top of investment on top of investment, because ultimately people would rather stuff their money away somewhere and let it do its own thing than take an active role in developing the worth of their assets.
All I'm saying is that if we truly don't have a clue where we're going, then investment is a joke.
2010-01-16 11:35:45
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6281|Truthistan

ruisleipa wrote:

Diesel_dyk : come on enough with the 'we saved europe twice' bullshit. Gets so old. That seems to be one of the US's prime excuses for any old shit. 'Hell we saved you guys, TWICE! So fuck you!'

blah blah tbh, it doesn't wash an excuse anymore.

You, personally, did fuck all, as did no-one on this forum. And while not eating may be a sign of poverty, I repeat - being fat isn't a sign of success (at least not necessarily, although some successful people are fat fuckers). It's s sign of not looking after yourself, not eating well, not exercising, being lazy, and, often, being poor - because it's cheaper to eat McDs than eat a balanced meal for a lot of people. It gets a bit desperate if some of yuou Americans are saying 'we're fat! Look at us! er...USA USA!??'

pfff.
Hey, does my ass look fat in this SUV?

I think you got the point... you were basically saying you're a ignorant fat lazy and ruining the environment. And said, fat is better that starving, we give lots overseas, our economy is so robust that we have more open markets than you, and we are so lazy that when push comes to shove we're there to help whether that's Europe or Haiti. /sarcasm   You may not like it but there it is. Pull your "you're fat lazy ignorant" rhetoric and you might find that I won't react by throwing up a picture of a Ford Excursion diesel and basically say choke on my fumes (no, from the other tail pipe) because I can do that all day long.



And BTW I shopped at IKEA once so that's all I need to know about Finland.................  ignorance is bliss
2010-01-16 11:38:21
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

Diesel_dyk wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

Diesel_dyk : come on enough with the 'we saved europe twice' bullshit. Gets so old. That seems to be one of the US's prime excuses for any old shit. 'Hell we saved you guys, TWICE! So fuck you!'

blah blah tbh, it doesn't wash an excuse anymore.

You, personally, did fuck all, as did no-one on this forum. And while not eating may be a sign of poverty, I repeat - being fat isn't a sign of success (at least not necessarily, although some successful people are fat fuckers). It's s sign of not looking after yourself, not eating well, not exercising, being lazy, and, often, being poor - because it's cheaper to eat McDs than eat a balanced meal for a lot of people. It gets a bit desperate if some of yuou Americans are saying 'we're fat! Look at us! er...USA USA!??'

pfff.
Hey, does my ass look fat in this SUV?

I think you got the point... you were basically saying you're a ignorant fat lazy and ruining the environment. And said, fat is better that starving, we give lots overseas, our economy is so robust that we have more open markets than you, and we are so lazy that when push comes to shove we're there to help whether that's Europe or Haiti. /sarcasm   You may not like it but there it is. Pull your "you're fat lazy ignorant" rhetoric and you might find that I won't react by throwing up a picture of a Ford Excursion diesel and basically say choke on my fumes (no, from the other tail pipe) because I can do that all day long.



And BTW I shopped at IKEA once so that's all I need to know about Finland.................  ignorance is bliss
IKEA is Swedish
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

 

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