Maj.Do
Member
+85|6743|good old CA
For those of you who don't know already, I have made the switch over to linux recently and now, I use linux more that windows.

I am starting this thread to provide some basic information about linux for those of you who may be interested.

First off all, I will attempt to answer the first basic question that comes to mind: Why Linux?

Here are some answers i managed to put together:

1. Its free
2. its generally more stable than windows
3. it requires less "maintainence" than windows
4. no issues with spyware, adware, trojans, viruses, etc
5. all programs for linux are free.
6. there are lots of programs for linux and they are easy to find and install.
7. all major scientific research is done on linux based systems. those people interesting in going into a science or computer field should learn linux. (not all, just alot)

As you can see, linux has many advantages that people will find useful.

So, how do you get linux?

The answer for this is simple too....
Go online and download it for free!
Linux, unlike windows, comes with many different distributions and most of these can be downloaded for free. each distribution has its own set of advantage and disadvantages. for beginners, i recommend ubuntu or mandrake as systems based on those 2 distros can be quickly and easily set up.

the linux world comes with two main desktop environments, gnome and KDE. According to some, gnome is initially easier to use and better suited for people just making the switch to linux. KDE is generally considered to be more customizable more "advanced". From my point of view, both gnome and KDE and pretty good and it basically comes down to personal preference. Personally, i prefer KDE so that is what i use.

For those of you who just want to test out linux, many linux distros come in something called a live cd. A live cd basically allows you to run linux without writing anything on your hard disk. essentially, a live cd uses your RAM as a hard drive and runs linux off of your ram. a live cd is good for testing out a particular linux distro, but on a live cd, you can't save any files or settings. a live CD is pretty much good for only testing purposes.

another option is to install linux on your hard drive and use it as your operating system instead of windows.

most people (myself included) go a separate, middle path. we use something called dual boot. dual boot allows both linux and windows to coexist on the same hard drive. using dual boot, you can choose which operating system you want to boot into when your computer first starts up. this is good because it allows you to have the best of both worlds. the downside is that a dual boot system can be tricky to set up. if your computer already has windows installed on it, the process is complicated even more.

the way dual boot works is through something called grub. Grub is integrated into your hard drives master boot record so when the computer start, it first runs grub before linux or windows, thus allowing you to choose which operating system you would like to proceed in. the tricky part is that windows and linux must be installed on different partitions. on systems that already have windows installed, the main partition probably takes up the majority of the avaliable disk space, leaving no room for linux to be installed. therefore, to install linux, the main windows partition must first be resized. however, there is yet another catch. before the window parition can be resized, the windows file system must first undergo the resizing operation. thus, one must first shrink the windows file system, shrink the windows partition, create new paritions for linux, and modify the master boot record before a working dual boot system can be achieved.

while this sounds way complicated, in actuality, its not THAT tough. the reason for this is many linux installers come bundled with something called NTFS resizer. basically, NTFS resizer allows you to resize your windows partition and create linux partitions during the linux install process. then, the linux installers will also automatically install grub if it detects another operating system on the hard disk! while this does require you to have some basic knowledge of partitioning, it is not as complicated as it sounds.

if anybody would like to get a start on linux, i hope this thread helps set you in the right direction on your journey to the free open source world. please feel free to post any questions you may have on here and i will try to answer them for you. good luck!


Resources
http://nocloud.hopto.org/club/forum/  (member: nocloud)
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|6711|California

i have always liked Linux. i used to run a partition of it a while ago, thinkin of switching over all together
CHAO5
Member
+6|6671
I like linux, its highly configurable and the perfect operatingsystem for servers...

But, whats about gaming on a Linux-system (like BF2). How to install? and the gfx-drivers?
Is there someone here, who uses linux as gaming-system?
sixshot
Decepticon Geek
+50|6667|Planet Seibertron ;)

Maj.Do wrote:

3. it requires less "maintainence" than windows
4. no issues with spyware, adware, trojans, viruses, etc
5. all programs for linux are free.
6. there are lots of programs for linux and they are easy to find and install.
Ehehe, I just have to nitpick on this one...

For #3, it's usually the case of less maintenance but you may find yerself having to update a few 'packages' in order to plug a hole.

For #4, I'm pretty sure Linux has its share of virus.  It's not very public like Windows... but there are some out there.  IMO, those running Linux tend to know what to do and what not to do, given the nature of a POSIX-style OS.

For #5, not all are free.  Cedega definitely costs money to get.  And CodeWeaver's CrossOver isn't free either.  There are limits as to what OSS (Open Source Software) can provide.  And some just cannot be done within the confines of an open source licensing system such as GPL, LGPL, BSD, or MIT.  Technology patents makes things tricky for the OSS world since some have the rights and others don't.

For #6, for the most common tasks, yes they are easy to find.  But for the specifics, maybe not.  One of the problem of the OSS world, not Linux in partiuclar, is the fragmentation of softwares that provides certain services to the users.  Let's take multimedia as an example.  For GNOME, the default player is called Totem.  But there are other alternatives such as mplayer, xine, XMMS, or even Rythmbox.  As I know there's a Qt/KDE equivalent of this, I unfortunately do not know the name of it at this time.  Which one do you choose?  Which one do you use?  Each has its own style of interfacing and interacting with the user... yet all have some sort of learning curve to go with it.  Some are straightforward... but others are a little more complex due to the various compression styles that go with multimedia -- MPEG, MPEG2, H264, MPEG-4, MPEG Layer 3, Theora, OggVorbis, flac, AAC, MonkeyAudio, WavPack.  The ffmpeg library can only do so much... and the OSS world can only do so much on figuring out the proprietary formats we have out there: WMA/WMV and QuickTime come to mind.

Linux is a nice OS to move to... but there's always a need to provide a word of caution to anyone who considers moving to it.  Patience is needed.  Reading ability is required.  Documentations are everywhere. And google can be your worst enemy.  The number of distribution flavor of Linux can be overwhelming.  Setting up a stand-alone Linux system can also be a daunting task.  One of the things to consider is the number of people who run a version of XP and 2000... whereby the filesystem used in either is likely to be NTFS.  NTFS can be resized ... but you're going to need to do it by hand via a text-based interface or using a commercial software.  That may have since changed, as I haven't resized a NTFS partition in months.
Maj.Do
Member
+85|6743|good old CA
do u personally own a linux system? if so which one are u running?
theDude5B
Cool member
+804|6742
very nice thread.

I was talking about Linux only at the weekend and that i might change the OS on my old computer to it. A lot of the jobs which i could possibly get require a basic understanding of Linux systems and Apache server. So i think one computer running Linux and one running XP is the way to go.
sixshot
Decepticon Geek
+50|6667|Planet Seibertron ;)

Maj.Do wrote:

do u personally own a linux system? if so which one are u running?
I run two Linux system, one dedicated and the other dual-boot.  This little ol' Gateway laptop I have runs both XP Home and Linux.  Both systems run Gentoo Linux as the distribution of choice, having migrated off from RedHat years ago.  Debian has such a high learning curve that it's unbearable to me.  I have yet to try Ubuntu but I haven't a need for trying it out since Gentoo has served me well enough to provide me with enough stuff to get around.

The laptop runs the latest stable kernel provided via Gentoo's portage system and runs GNOME 2.14 as the desktop of choice.  The underlying GUI is provided by Xorg 7.0 and is quite capable of running Xgl.  Roughly 90% of what Xgl can do has been put through a performance test and it can do almost everything I threw at it.

There's only a few things I have yet to test on the laptop but I have gotten most of the things worked out with the laptop.  I have yet to make it capable of suspending to RAM or hibernate... but I doubt that's going to be of much issue for me.

The other Linux system is running on a speedy AthlonXP 2100+ w/ 512MB of RAM.  It's currently running "headless" and the only way to administer it is to log in remotely via ssh.  Its previous hardware has aged beyond my tolerance so it was time to put in a new one.  The old hardware has served me well for several years and was my decomissioned Linux router, of which it has served as both router, firewall, web server, Windows file server, sshd, and DNS caching.

I used to have a usable Linux box that I use as a "toybox" of sort.  But it has since collected dust due to another system sitting there temporarily.  I do not know when I'll be able to bring it back but it's in dire need of maintenance and needs to be moved out (for a possible Athlon64 replacement).
Jamalen
Member
+2|6735|Shetland Islands
Rather then dual booting or live CDing I would recommend a 3rd path..

I used to run Xandros v2.0 Pro Linux on a dual booting PC in 2004 with WindowsXP, and after a few months of virus free bliss WindowsXP decided to die all of a suddern, and took the Linux with it (like a drowning man pulling under his would-be helper).

Because of this a lot of my office work done on Linux died with the machine (95% of was backed up though).

Recently I have gone back to linux, and this time I went onto eBay and bought myself the barebone parts to put together an old system that would run fine (Pentium3 1ghz, 256mb ram, 20gb HDD) cost me around £47 or something ($65 US?) and gave me a working PC that could handle most of the Linuxes out there..

Went through a few Distos of Linux until I settled, and as a Linux "Newbie" I just wanted something I could surf with (using Firefox) and do office work (using Openoffice) while my main PC would run XP and be used for nothing bu playing games..

I tried, Fedora (average), SimplyMepis (good but made for newer PC's), DSL (fast but too basic), Mandriva (good but again, need a better PC), Ubuntu (impressive) and Finally Xubuntu (fast as well!).

I'm still using the Alpha version of Xubuntu (which is released in June), but its rock solid, fast as hell on a 1ghz PC (equal to my 3ghz Intel630 machine while surfing), and the only thing it lacks is proper networking tools.. which will hopefully be in the final release..

So thats my opinion, Linux DOES take time to learn and get a handle on, but you don't need a ninja PC to run it, so build or buy a piece of crap from eBay and you can take your time and play around with Linux without any fear of altering or modifying your gaming PC.
Rakasan
Member
+7|6828|California, USA
I use Linux for everything except for gaming, I've been using it for about 7 years.  I use RH and FC* at home for file, mail, etc servers at home.  At work I use RHEL (enterprise) for managing Linux production servers from a Linux workstation.

sixshot wrote:

Maj.Do wrote:

3. it requires less "maintainence" than windows
4. no issues with spyware, adware, trojans, viruses, etc
5. all programs for linux are free.
6. there are lots of programs for linux and they are easy to find and install.
Ehehe, I just have to nitpick on this one...

For #3, it's usually the case of less maintenance but you may find yerself having to update a few 'packages' in order to plug a hole.

For #4, I'm pretty sure Linux has its share of virus.  It's not very public like Windows... but there are some out there.  IMO, those running Linux tend to know what to do and what not to do, given the nature of a POSIX-style OS.

For #5, not all are free.  Cedega definitely costs money to get.  And CodeWeaver's CrossOver isn't free either.  There are limits as to what OSS (Open Source Software) can provide.  And some just cannot be done within the confines of an open source licensing system such as GPL, LGPL, BSD, or MIT.  Technology patents makes things tricky for the OSS world since some have the rights and others don't.

For #6, for the most common tasks, yes they are easy to find.  But for the specifics, maybe not.  One of the problem of the OSS world, not Linux in partiuclar, is the fragmentation of softwares that provides certain services to the users.  Let's take multimedia as an example.  For GNOME, the default player is called Totem.  But there ....
#3:  To add, automated update programs such as yum (for RH) makes it easier.   Source files are easy if you know what you're doing.
#4:  In COMPARISION to Micro$oft based viruses, you "practically" don't have any worries for spyware and virii except for trojans. 
#5:  To add check out,
http://www.freshmeat.net
http://www.sourceforge.net
#7: Yes, if you go CS it would be wise to develop some basic *NIX skills (vi, awk, grep, sed, etc)

Last edited by Rakasan (2006-04-20 02:16:56)

Maj.Do
Member
+85|6743|good old CA
awesome responses Rakasan and sixshot .  _+1 karma for both
BellusEndus
Make love not war
+59|6614|Edinburg
More importantly (since we're on a BF2 forum) has anyone tried, successfully or not, to run BF2 on Cedega or another Wine tool?
blackvenges
Member
+3|6672
i will be trying to run bf2 on linux using cedega within the next week or so to see how it works out
blackvenges
Member
+3|6672
well i did some digging and i most likly wont swtich my main rig to linux because cedega doesnt seem to support punkbuster.....
Rakasan
Member
+7|6828|California, USA

blackvenges wrote:

well i did some digging and i most likly wont swtich my main rig to linux because cedega doesnt seem to support punkbuster.....
might have to do something w/atleast having the latest M$ service packs

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