no. there are 4 minarets and the caller isn't even used they said because of new technology and no real need.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
You missed it. Substitute "You're" for "They're." I could care less as to what someone believes. Just leave me the hell alone (Don't impose it on me), My attempt at cynical barb at religion there was fail.. But hell, since we're reliving prepubescence here...AussieReaper wrote:
You sound like you're 12 years old.DBBrinson1 wrote:
Righto .That's what I thought... So, when is the US going in to put an end to it? Won't the big O weigh in? After all...AussieReaper wrote:
You support freedom of speech. Do you think that should include freedom of religion?
The banning of minarets is nothing but an attack on a religion.
Nah, What the Swiss are doing, as much as fanatical Muslims religions piss me off, believe what you want. You're free to prove yourself a fool anytime -just stay the fuck away from me. Right?
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
what do you base your info on?cl4u53w1t2 wrote:
yes. and the few that exist have been built hundreds of years ago
Last edited by Beduin (2009-12-01 22:38:36)
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
...show me the schematic
Islam, is a race? ^^^^S.Lythberg wrote:
I like how some European countries preach nothing but tolerance from their homogenous nations, then go xenophobic once some new races show up
It speaks to nothing more than the truth, Islam is spreading throughout Europe, regardless if you admit it or not, and Europeans do not want it. (regardless you admit it or not)
Islam is not just a religion, it is a culture that makes up an entire society, and it is stealing away the national identity of the nations it infiltrates.
If you want Islamic culture, move your ass to the ME. Do not bring the ME to Europe or North America.
It comes to this because, the truth is, Islamic culture and western society do not blend.
It isn't the fear of the "unknown" regarding Islam, it is the fear of the "KNOWN" regarding Islam that motivates such action, and there really isn't any denying that.Uzique wrote:
john please try responding to me again
here's a brief reminder:
why are they justified in banning 'x' faith's religion
discourse on xenophobia and 'fear of the unknown'
also, i edited this in which hopefully addresses why i won't be wasting my time responding to your last post of utter spiel:i'll debate with you on the appropriateness of banning islamic architecture when you can drop the 'ideological constraints' that you whine about all-so-often with your islamophobic and narrowminded comments. im far from an open embracer of multiculturalism (come on now john, you're really good at politically assessing me, we've already established that im a middle-class right-wing jolly old toff), but frankly, i wince when i read your 'guidebook to neoconservatism' opinions on islam. try again.and i just noticed your (rhetorical) question above: yes, yes an average person here in europe does have a more-than-surface level idea of what islam is and what it stands for. thus we don't all jump in fright when we see a mosque or cower in fear at the looming shadow of a minaret. we live in a multi-cultural society that embraces all faiths, creeds and races. the assumption you're making there that the average-joe 'fears' islam because it is the unknown is exactly what i am talking about when I call you "typically american" and "ideologically paradigmatic" in your world-view. practice what you preach...
Problem is, PC is not involved and thus the truth stands out.
Spreading through Europe?
Stealing national identity?
Not really even close lowing ... Islam is not spreading, their numbers have increased slightly but the Islamic boom you refer is not happening in Europe ...
Stealing national identity?
Not really even close lowing ... Islam is not spreading, their numbers have increased slightly but the Islamic boom you refer is not happening in Europe ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
really? then why the concern, and such a move in the first place?Varegg wrote:
Spreading through Europe?
Stealing national identity?
Not really even close lowing ... Islam is not spreading, their numbers have increased slightly but the Islamic boom you refer is not happening in Europe ...
again, like I said, regardless if you admit it or not.
because xenophonia still exists in this world.lowing wrote:
really? then why the concern, and such a move in the first place?Varegg wrote:
Spreading through Europe?
Stealing national identity?
Not really even close lowing ... Islam is not spreading, their numbers have increased slightly but the Islamic boom you refer is not happening in Europe ...
again, like I said, regardless if you admit it or not.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
UN slams 'discriminatory' Swiss minaret ban
GENEVA — The United Nations called Switzerland's ban on new minarets "clearly discriminatory" and deeply divisive, and the Swiss foreign minister acknowledged Tuesday the government was very concerned about how the vote would affect the country's image.
U.N. human rights chief Navi Pillay said Sunday's referendum to outlaw the construction of minarets in Switzerland was the product of "anti-foreigner scare-mongering."
The criticism from Pillay, whose office is based in the Swiss city of Geneva, comes after an outcry from Muslim countries, Switzerland's European neighbors and human rights watchdogs since 57.5 percent of the Swiss population ratified the ban.
The Swiss government opposed the initiative but has sought to defend it as an action not against Islam or Muslims, but one aimed at improving integration and fighting extremism.
"These are extraordinary claims when the symbol of one religion is targeted," Pillay said in a statement. She said she was saddened to see xenophobic arguments gain such traction with Swiss voters despite their "long-standing support of fundamental human rights."
The referendum doesn't affect Switzerland's four existing minarets, or the ability of Muslims to practice their religion. It only bans the towers used to put out the Islamic call to prayer.
But wealthy Arab tourists might think twice now about spending their money in Geneva and other Swiss cities, and the neutral country's efforts to mediate in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict could also suffer.
Sweden, which holds the European Union's rotating presidency, said the United Nations should reconsider its presence in Geneva, where it employs thousands of people and holds hundreds of conferences each year.
"Questions could very well be raised within the U.N. about holding meetings and activities in Switzerland, even if the Geneva canton belonged to those which voted against the ban," Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt said on his blog.
Bildt said the vote was a poor act of diplomacy on Switzerland's part.
"Even if this is Switzerland, it sends a very unfortunate signal to large parts of the rest of the world about attitudes and prejudices in Europe," Bildt said. "We all have an interest in showing that this impression is false and in the long-term even dangerous."
In Athens on Tuesday, Swiss Foreign Minister Micheline Calmy-Rey said the government was worried about the ban.
"We are very concerned with this referendum. The reality of our societies in Europe and throughout the world is that each limitation on the coexistence of different cultures and religions also endangers our security," Calmy-Rey said during a meeting of foreign ministers of the 56-nation Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
"Provocation risks triggering other provocation and risks inflaming extremism," she added.
Sunday's referendum, which was backed by nationalist parties, forced the government to declare illegal the building of any new minarets.
Calmy-Rey stressed that Muslims were accepted in Swiss society, and the decision would not change the foreign policy of the country, which would continue to maintain close relations with Muslim nations.
"Swiss Muslims are well integrated and will continue to attend the 200 mosques in the country," she said.
The minister said if an appeal against the referendum is lodged at the European Court of Human Rights, it would be up to the court to decide on its legality.
The Swiss has always been the more paranoid little brother in Europe ... they seldom grant any immigrants citizenship ...lowing wrote:
really? then why the concern, and such a move in the first place?Varegg wrote:
Spreading through Europe?
Stealing national identity?
Not really even close lowing ... Islam is not spreading, their numbers have increased slightly but the Islamic boom you refer is not happening in Europe ...
again, like I said, regardless if you admit it or not.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
I'm torn on this. Part of me says people should have the freedom to express their beliefs however they want architecturally, within reason. But the majority has ruled. I can't say that I honestly see some minarets taking over a European culture that has developed over a few millenia.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Someone forgot to tell the statisticsSpark wrote:
because xenophonia still exists in this world.lowing wrote:
really? then why the concern, and such a move in the first place?Varegg wrote:
Spreading through Europe?
Stealing national identity?
Not really even close lowing ... Islam is not spreading, their numbers have increased slightly but the Islamic boom you refer is not happening in Europe ...
again, like I said, regardless if you admit it or not.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm
Really? so it is xenophobia huh? Then why are they not afraid of ALL foreigners, and have just focused on the culture that is the polar opposite of western society, freedom, tolerance, equality, etc...?
Why not just drop the PC and call it what it is. Islam has not place in western society. It has no commonality at all. Not in law, morality, or tolerance for others.
Yeah I know, not tolerating intolerance, now there is a paradox for ya.
This is a move against Islam, not architecture. Call it what it is.Kmarion wrote:
I'm torn on this. Part of me says people should have the freedom to express their beliefs however they want architecturally, within reason. But the majority has ruled. I can't say that I honestly see some minarets taking over a European culture that has developed over a few millenia.
It is being done because Islam is viewed as a threat, which it is.
It kinda goes against my conservative values. Government interference etc..
Xbone Stormsurgezz
A culture that goes against my freedoms, goes against my conservative values.Kmarion wrote:
It kinda goes against my conservative values. Government interference etc..
Attempting to ban something wont do nearly as much as exposing something.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Ok good, so they just don't hate Islam, they hate everyone. there is consistency with this action then, so what is the problem?Varegg wrote:
The Swiss has always been the more paranoid little brother in Europe ... they seldom grant any immigrants citizenship ...lowing wrote:
really? then why the concern, and such a move in the first place?Varegg wrote:
Spreading through Europe?
Stealing national identity?
Not really even close lowing ... Islam is not spreading, their numbers have increased slightly but the Islamic boom you refer is not happening in Europe ...
again, like I said, regardless if you admit it or not.
Islam is exposed, hence the action against it.Kmarion wrote:
Attempting to ban something wont do nearly as much as exposing something.
Lol.lowing wrote:
A culture that goes against my freedoms, goes against my conservative values.Kmarion wrote:
It kinda goes against my conservative values. Government interference etc..
Banning new minarets goes against the Swiss muslims freedoms.
Explain to me again why Islam is a threat? Please try to be as thorough as possible.lowing wrote:
It is being done because Islam is viewed as a threat, which it is.
I need around tree fiddy.
Which is precisely what I was getting at. Tis why I said I was torn.DonFck wrote:
Lol.lowing wrote:
A culture that goes against my freedoms, goes against my conservative values.Kmarion wrote:
It kinda goes against my conservative values. Government interference etc..
Banning new minarets goes against the Swiss muslims freedoms.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Just like how western society is not welcomed in Islamic culture, Islamic culture is obviously not welcomed in Switzerland. Yet you only condemn the west, go figure.DonFck wrote:
Lol.lowing wrote:
A culture that goes against my freedoms, goes against my conservative values.Kmarion wrote:
It kinda goes against my conservative values. Government interference etc..
Banning new minarets goes against the Swiss muslims freedoms.Explain to me again why Islam is a threat? Please try to be as thorough as possible.lowing wrote:
It is being done because Islam is viewed as a threat, which it is.
Not wasting my time pointing out the obvious, just to listen to your denials dismissals and excuses.
I get your point completely and agree.Kmarion wrote:
Which is precisely what I was getting at. Tis why I said I was torn.DonFck wrote:
Lol.lowing wrote:
A culture that goes against my freedoms, goes against my conservative values.
Banning new minarets goes against the Swiss muslims freedoms.
Fantastic.lowing wrote:
Not wasting my time pointing out the obvious, just to listen to your denials dismissals and excuses.DonFck wrote:
Explain to me again why Islam is a threat? Please try to be as thorough as possible.
I need around tree fiddy.
It is a paradox, however I have come to terms with it.Kmarion wrote:
Which is precisely what I was getting at. Tis why I said I was torn.DonFck wrote:
Lol.lowing wrote:
A culture that goes against my freedoms, goes against my conservative values.
Banning new minarets goes against the Swiss muslims freedoms.
Banning intolerance I can live with.
The intolerance is coming from the Swiss, towards the building of minarets. So what you're saying is that you can live with banning the intolerance of the Swiss? IOW, you'd like to see the minarets built, because not allowing it would be intolerant towards Islam?lowing wrote:
It is a paradox, however I have come to terms with it.Kmarion wrote:
Which is precisely what I was getting at. Tis why I said I was torn.DonFck wrote:
Lol.
Banning new minarets goes against the Swiss muslims freedoms.
Banning intolerance I can live with.
You're flip flopping, you flip flopping flip flopper.
I need around tree fiddy.
Really? What ever I post you will get into, biased sources, generalities, racism, prejudices, etc.... and focus on PC, all in your attempt to deny, dismiss or excuse.DonFck wrote:
I get your point completely and agree.Kmarion wrote:
Which is precisely what I was getting at. Tis why I said I was torn.DonFck wrote:
Lol.
Banning new minarets goes against the Swiss muslims freedoms.Fantastic.lowing wrote:
Not wasting my time pointing out the obvious, just to listen to your denials dismissals and excuses.DonFck wrote:
Explain to me again why Islam is a threat? Please try to be as thorough as possible.
So tell me, why do I need to waste time with that bullshit?