And how do you suppose they become illegal?I read a report the other day that said the majority of guns used against police officers were illegally acquired. Not at gun shows, not at gun shops, but illegally acquired.
Little Jimmy down on the corner is making them a penny a piece out of discarded coke cans.Dilbert_X wrote:
And how do you suppose they become illegal?I read a report the other day that said the majority of guns used against police officers were illegally acquired. Not at gun shows, not at gun shops, but illegally acquired.
There was one small blip in there that was false. The weapons being carried in AZ when Obama was there weren't automatic weapons. They were semi-automatic.chuyskywalker wrote:
Wow, that got covered locally pretty quickly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYWz7BEEg1k
How they look is very dependent on how they dress...at least in most people's eyes.JohnG@lt wrote:
]I think they look stupid walking around with a gun in plain view. The whole open carry thing is retarded. Concealed weapons would be more appropriate and are no more a danger.
No, I know it's a lot more of a hassle to carry concealed. My argument is that it's silly and kind of backwards. Wouldn't it be better to not freak out people and cause controversy like these guys are doing? Cops want to see the weapons out in the open because it makes them feel safer but I as a citizen would prefer people to keep them covered up.RAIMIUS wrote:
How they look is very dependent on how they dress...at least in most people's eyes.JohnG@lt wrote:
]I think they look stupid walking around with a gun in plain view. The whole open carry thing is retarded. Concealed weapons would be more appropriate and are no more a danger.
Concealed is good for a host of reasons (non-intrusive, no LE hassles, no freaked out soccer moms, and the element of surprise if ever confronted). It also takes a lot more effort to do legally in most places.
For example, in Colorado.
To open carry, I would need to have a holster, a gun, and a belt.
To carry concealed, I would need to fill out an application, make an appointment at the Sheriff's office, get two cashier's checks for $150, and wait until they mailed my license to me. After all that, I can wear a coat over my pistol, and not freak out people scared of guns. To me, it would generally be worth it, but that's still a few hours of work and $150 that I could spend elsewhere.
(I don't carry. I spend the majority of my time in a "no carry" zone and am going to move in 7 months, so it would be a waste of $150 to get a permit, IMO.)
Counterpoint: Wouldn't it be better if people weren't freaked out by the presence of firearms and treated people like the innocent, respectable fellow citizens they are 99.8% of the time?JohnG@lt wrote:
Wouldn't it be better to not freak out people and cause controversy like these guys are doing? Cops want to see the weapons out in the open because it makes them feel safer but I as a citizen would prefer people to keep them covered up.
i get flyers on the windshield of my car when i go in the grocery store, advertising "100% pass rate" for concealed carry permit.chuyskywalker wrote:
(As a side note: CA, being a "may issue" state, the Sheriffs tend to lean towards "won't issue" more often than not -- it is very difficult, if not impossible, to get a CCW)
I remember the "assault weapon ban" from the 90's. Seem to think that included the 10+ mag capacity ban... Asinine. So Cali took that and ran with it... Ugh. Come to think, when buying knives or guns -vendors have that "won't ship to Cali" printed out next to certain guns and knives. Guess now I know why.chuyskywalker wrote:
Because CA has some of the most ridiculous gun rules ever. For example, my Keltec rifle here is perfectly legal. However, if I add a foregrip, it become illegal. Whaa?! Or if I add a pistol grip instead of the rifle stock it's then illegal. >.< Guns in CA get banned simply for 'looking scary', not for any practical reason. As an example: you can't purchase .50 caliber rifles -- why? Because they could be used in crimes....yeah, all the gangs have been jumping out of their socks to purchase non-concealable, 26 lbs. rifles for 2-3,000 $ with bullets that cost about 2-5$ per shot.DBBrinson1 wrote:
Do you know the reasoning why the gun must be unloaded? You see many Californians carrying?
Secondly, no, you hardly ever see anyone open carry -- but I was only aware of open carry while living in SF and I am sure you'd get the shit harassed out of you if you did it there. Why? Take as an example: "San Francisco County" is a "may issue" CCW county. Meaning that if the Sheriff deems it so, they may issue you a CCW permit -- in the last 20 years only about 5 have been issued. With an attitude like that towards concealed carry, think about how they feel about open carry
Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2009-11-22 11:13:50)
Last edited by CoronadoSEAL (2009-11-22 14:14:44)
Carrying a firearm in the open is "retarded behavior"? Perhaps they'd have a CWP like you -but Chuy said, they're extremely hard to get.CoronadoSEAL wrote:
absolutely retarded behavior by total nutjobs. including you atg.
this accomplishes nothing except force ordinary people to live out their lives in complete fear.
btw, i have a ccw permit.
CoronadoSEAL wrote:
absolutely retarded behavior by total nutjobs. including you atg.
this accomplishes nothing except force ordinary people to live out their lives in complete fear
I just don't understand the point of open carry of an unloaded gun.JohnG@lt wrote:
I think they look stupid walking around with a gun in plain view. The whole open carry thing is retarded. Concealed weapons would be more appropriate and are no more a danger.
What? I'm not being the bitch here. If law abiding citizens wants to carry a weapon and can't readily obtain the means through a CWP -then what's your problem with them carrying it the prescribed lawfully manner by the state? Or wait -is it just your right to carry? I'd rather be able to look over at someone see -oh he's carrying other then get the surprise. Besides you should worry about the drawn gun, not the holstered one. der. Sure you understand rights and want the monumental responsibility that comes along with carrying a deadly weapon?CoronadoSEAL wrote:
yes, retarded behavior.
why am i repeating myself? i feel like i'm talking to a woman.
so just because something is hard to get it somehow justifies the closest legal resemblance? awsm logic.
Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2009-11-22 21:15:48)
And the kids/parents who see the guns and are ignorant to the law? Tough shit? Great logic, you're following the law but at the same time hurting those around you.DBBrinson1 wrote:
What? I'm not being the bitch here. If law abiding citizens wants to carry a weapon and can't readily obtain the means through a CWP -then what's your problem with them carrying it the prescribed lawfully manner by the state? Or wait -is it just your right to carry? I'd rather be able to look over at someone see -oh he's carrying other then get the surprise. Besides you should worry about the drawn gun, not the holstered one. der. Sure you understand rights and want the monumental responsibility that comes along with carrying a deadly weapon?CoronadoSEAL wrote:
yes, retarded behavior.
why am i repeating myself? i feel like i'm talking to a woman.
so just because something is hard to get it somehow justifies the closest legal resemblance? awsm logic.
very rarely... they just use it for show...mcminty wrote:
Just curious here but what are the statistics on armed civilians, either CCW or open carry, stopping a crime in progress?
I think in most cases unless you're directly involved you're not permitted to get involved.mcminty wrote:
Just curious here but what are the statistics on armed civilians, either CCW or open carry, stopping a crime in progress?
here are the stats for Floridamcminty wrote:
Just curious here but what are the statistics on armed civilians, either CCW or open carry, stopping a crime in progress?
In Florida you have the right to stop a forcible felony using deadly force.Dilbert_X wrote:
I think in most cases unless you're directly involved you're not permitted to get involved.
Most states also have a requirement that you back out and walk away if you can, unless you're Batman obviously.
By your logic -their ignorance of the law should supersede another's rights. Yea... Great logic there.Hakei wrote:
And the kids/parents who see the guns and are ignorant to the law? Tough shit? Great logic, you're following the law but at the same time hurting those around you.
Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2009-11-23 07:45:41)
aw how sad for themHakei wrote:
And the kids/parents who see the guns and are ignorant to the law? Tough shit? Great logic, you're following the law but at the same time hurting those around you.
Florida and Texas are the exceptions?In Florida you have the right to stop a forcible felony using deadly force.
There are not a lot of solid statistics. Most studies use "Defensive Gun Uses" which include CCW, open carry, car "carry", business and home defense, etc. The US National Crime Victimization Survey usually records about 100,000 DGUs in the United States, per year. For various reasons, some claim this is a low number.mcminty wrote:
Just curious here but what are the statistics on armed civilians, either CCW or open carry, stopping a crime in progress?
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-11-23 15:41:51)
You are assuming that these people are gun psychos just looking for an excuse to blast something; which is uninformed and a crutch to all your arguments. And naturally, as wildly sensational generalizations usually go, it's wrong.Dilbert_X wrote:
CCW for self defense I don't have a problem with, carrying a gun in the hope you can wade into a firefight in a public place is something different.
167 out of 1,647,823. The numbers don't lie. .01013%.... How can one argue with that????chuyskywalker wrote:
[2] As previously noted, CCW's have only been denied to roughly 5,000 people out of 1.6 million in a 25 year period in Florida -- mostly for crimes not involving firearms.
