sighhhhhhhh, here we go again with the "black and white". I would give anything if you could come up with a tangible argument, anything other than, you're a racist, you're generalizing, you're a Nazi, you hate all Muslims, you think everything is black and white. God, for once, argue something based on the merits of your position instead of a dismissal of someone elses opinion.ghettoperson wrote:
I'd get Rammunition a green card, and get Lowing a pair of glasses that allow him to see in only black and white. I'd then fire everyone who was straight from government work and rename the White House the Rainbow House. I'd get Michael Moore to desecrate Reagan's grave.
Growth in what, imports? Or is your plan to print money to buy imports?JohnG@lt wrote:
Balance of trade is an old issue propagated by mercantalists. If money were finite and the world were a zero sum problem then yes, sending our money overseas to buy Chinese products at ten cents a piece would be a bad thing. The internal growth here in America offsets our trade deficit when it comes to total growth. Yes, exporting more than we import would increase our wealth but with globalization it's just not going to happen.
I don't understand this theory.
Saudi Arabia and China are steadily buying your country, growth in something which belongs to someone else isn't a plan either.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-11-14 16:05:59)
Fuck Israel
Growth in domestic manufacturing and services.
Foreign investment is a good thing. edit: er I should have said foreign investment in business is a good thing, not the country itself.
clarity
Foreign investment is a good thing. edit: er I should have said foreign investment in business is a good thing, not the country itself.
clarity
Last edited by Flaming_Maniac (2009-11-14 16:10:07)
Money is made elsewhere in the economy. Financial services, money invested in the US stock market etc. If you provide a service to a foreigner it's not counted in the balance of imports. We still manage growth in our economy even though we import a lot of goods because that money comes back in other ways or our banks make money on interest paid by those manufacturing firms etc. The trade deficit looks bad and it's pointed to often by politicians but it's really a very very simplistic observation that they use because A) they aren't economists but lawyers and B) most peoples eyes would glaze over at the first mention of macroeconomics. Chalk it up to disinformation to scare people and push through their agenda that won't effect it either way.Dilbert_X wrote:
Growth in what, imports? Or is your plan to print money to buy imports?JohnG@lt wrote:
Balance of trade is an old issue propagated by mercantalists. If money were finite and the world were a zero sum problem then yes, sending our money overseas to buy Chinese products at ten cents a piece would be a bad thing. The internal growth here in America offsets our trade deficit when it comes to total growth. Yes, exporting more than we import would increase our wealth but with globalization it's just not going to happen.
I don't understand this theory.
Saudi Arabia and China are steadily buying your country, growth in something which belongs to someone else isn't a plan either.
Edit - The scary people are the ones that actually take it at face value and think that it needs to be changed. They're playing with fire and have zero idea what they are doing but think they do. Those last four words are what makes them scary.
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2009-11-14 16:15:13)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Do you mean made or inflated? I know 'invisibles' are a factor but they are still calculable.Money is made elsewhere in the economy. Financial services, money invested in the US stock market etc.
The US has a national debt for a reason, imports are greater than exports.
Those people who think you can just print money and issue more bonds are the scary ones TBH. We know it leads to devaluation of the country, it does postpone it over the political horizon though.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-11-14 16:21:08)
Fuck Israel
But people are saying they don't matter. You have to sell a helll of a lot of serivces to offset your Toyota.FM wrote:
Growth in domestic manufacturing and services.
Letting people buy a part of you business or country is very different from selling them a product they will need to replace.
Fuck Israel
No, our debt is separate and completely independent of our trade deficit. That's our government spending more than it takes in because it refuses to cut programs and can't raise taxes because it's political suicide. So, they spend money like drunken sailors and convince themselves that they're just using Keynesian theories that will one day turn all that money spent into magic faerie dust that turns money into more money. Nevermind that Keynes said to invest that money on infrastructure, not social welfare programsDilbert_X wrote:
Do you mean made or inflated? I know 'invisibles' are a factor but they are still calculable.Money is made elsewhere in the economy. Financial services, money invested in the US stock market etc.
The US has a national debt for a reason, imports are greater than exports.
Those people who think you can just print money and issue more bonds are the scary ones TBH.
Anyway. The US economy has net growth every year after inflation is removed and even with a trade deficit. The concept of a trade deficit was coined by merchants in the 18th century that wanted their governments to protect them from foreign merchants. It's a scare tactic they used to have tariffs implemented so they could make themselves richer. So seriously, it really means very little in the grand scheme of things. Yes, it's better to be a net importer to a certain extent but in reality it really doesn't mean a whole lot.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Labeling you is more fun.lowing wrote:
sighhhhhhhh, here we go again with the "black and white". I would give anything if you could come up with a tangible argument, anything other than, you're a racist, you're generalizing, you're a Nazi, you hate all Muslims, you think everything is black and white. God, for once, argue something based on the merits of your position instead of a dismissal of someone elses opinion.ghettoperson wrote:
I'd get Rammunition a green card, and get Lowing a pair of glasses that allow him to see in only black and white. I'd then fire everyone who was straight from government work and rename the White House the Rainbow House. I'd get Michael Moore to desecrate Reagan's grave.
The balance of trade stuff is actually something I worked out myself but after looking at the wikipedia entry I seem to be in outstanding company I should've been an economist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of … e_deficits
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of … e_deficits
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2009-11-14 16:38:03)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I'm with this guy, the others are theorists - who - like Greenspan - often turn out to be FOS.The successful American businessman and investor Warren Buffett was quoted in the Associated Press (January 20, 2006) as saying "The U.S trade deficit is a bigger threat to the domestic economy than either the federal budget deficit or consumer debt and could lead to political turmoil... Right now, the rest of the world owns $3 trillion more of us than we own of them."
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-11-14 17:29:49)
Fuck Israel
Buffett is entirely overrated.Dilbert_X wrote:
I'm with this guy, the others are theorists - who - like Greenspan - often turn out to be FOS.The successful American businessman and investor Warren Buffett was quoted in the Associated Press (January 20, 2006) as saying "The U.S trade deficit is a bigger threat to the domestic economy than either the federal budget deficit or consumer debt and could lead to political turmoil... Right now, the rest of the world owns $3 trillion more of us than we own of them."
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Don't care how rated he is, he's an actual achiever, not a theorist.
Fuck Israel
Ok. Believe what you want. I know you like to take the role of contrarian but in many cases it doesn't serve you well. I was trying to teach you and you threw it back in my face. Stay ignorant, wtf do I care.Dilbert_X wrote:
Don't care how rated he is, he's an actual achiever, not a theorist.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Bottom line - people have followed those theories you like and the US economy is now pretty well fucked.
If you choose to keep your head in the sand its up to you.
If you choose to keep your head in the sand its up to you.
Fuck Israel
The economy is recovering. Every single recession I've lived through has been 'the worst since the Great Depression'. This one just happened to be blown out of all proportion by our new 24/7 news coverage. Everything is magnified in our modern day and age. The US economy will be fine in a few years, as if nothing happened. The only people saying our economy is fucked long term are the unskilled laborers who got used to getting paid 10x their real value.Dilbert_X wrote:
Bottom line - people have followed those theories you like and the US economy is now pretty well fucked.
If you choose to keep your head in the sand its up to you.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
The big difference between your example and Agents is most of the gold/silver ghost town were established becasue of the mines. His points to already long existing towns that just grew because of the factories. I now my whole area would be screwed for jobs If Honda ever closed it's factories around here. Between The assembly plants and suppliers they provide a large portion of the jobs around here in this rural area (largest town in the county has about 18,000, the whole county is less than 50,000)JohnG@lt wrote:
There's plenty of examples to prove otherwise just in your own state alone. How many 'ghost towns' are there out there in Utah and Nevada? When the gold or silver dried up people moved on and the town died. There's nothing to get all weepy about.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Many of these rural areas pre-date the factories, and have been the homes to people for many generations. You don't just fold up a town and walk away.JohnG@lt wrote:
If the town was based around a factory and the factory closes the town has no reason for further existence. Town dead, move on and stop clinging to the past.
Except you'll owe trillions to the Saudis, the Chinese, and the unemployment rate will likely still be 10%, many of those working will be in McJobs which produce no value.The US economy will be fine in a few years, as if nothing happened.
Fuck Israel
Pull troops out of Iraq and everywhere they don't belong.
Use people who are abusing welfare system as labor to build a fucking big barrier between Mexico and the States.
Reinstate death sentence in every states as to clean prison of convict that deserve death and only cost money to keep alive while they do jackshit.
Prison inmate would be put into "work camp" this way they would "pay" back their crime....i mean like...you are sentencez of stealing a car, this is lets say a...10k crime...You'd have to work untill said debt is paid then your out.
That's what i have in mind right now.
Use people who are abusing welfare system as labor to build a fucking big barrier between Mexico and the States.
Reinstate death sentence in every states as to clean prison of convict that deserve death and only cost money to keep alive while they do jackshit.
Prison inmate would be put into "work camp" this way they would "pay" back their crime....i mean like...you are sentencez of stealing a car, this is lets say a...10k crime...You'd have to work untill said debt is paid then your out.
That's what i have in mind right now.
Last edited by Roger Lesboules (2009-11-14 22:54:51)
Isn't that last one slavery?Roger Lesboules wrote:
Pull troops out of Iraq and everywhere they don't belong.
Use people who are abusing welfare system as labor to build a fucking big barrier between Mexico and the States.
Reinstate death sentence in every states as to clean prison of convict that deserve death and only cost money to keep alive while to do jackshit.
Prison inmate would be put into "work camp" this way they would "pay" back their crime....i mean like...you are sentencez of stealing a car, this is lets say a...10k crime...You'd have to work untill said debt is paid then your out.
That's what i have in mind right now.
And what the american civil war was fought over?
Nope, as they are getting paid for their work...and the money they earn by doing work for the society is credited to their "Debt" toward said society.Skorpy-chan wrote:
Isn't that last one slavery?Roger Lesboules wrote:
Pull troops out of Iraq and everywhere they don't belong.
Use people who are abusing welfare system as labor to build a fucking big barrier between Mexico and the States.
Reinstate death sentence in every states as to clean prison of convict that deserve death and only cost money to keep alive while to do jackshit.
Prison inmate would be put into "work camp" this way they would "pay" back their crime....i mean like...you are sentencez of stealing a car, this is lets say a...10k crime...You'd have to work untill said debt is paid then your out.
That's what i have in mind right now.
And what the american civil war was fought over?
Also, slavery is making someone working for jack shit against his will...Upon committing a crime you accept to go to jail and therefore work your ass out of it.
Last edited by Roger Lesboules (2009-11-14 22:53:07)
No, it's slavery. By your logic, I could claim slaves weren't really slaves because they were working for the food and shelter people gave them. You can't force someone to work, just give them the option to.Roger Lesboules wrote:
Nope, as they are getting paid for their work...and the money they earn by doing work for the society is credited to their "Debt" toward said society.Skorpy-chan wrote:
Isn't that last one slavery?Roger Lesboules wrote:
Pull troops out of Iraq and everywhere they don't belong.
Use people who are abusing welfare system as labor to build a fucking big barrier between Mexico and the States.
Reinstate death sentence in every states as to clean prison of convict that deserve death and only cost money to keep alive while to do jackshit.
Prison inmate would be put into "work camp" this way they would "pay" back their crime....i mean like...you are sentencez of stealing a car, this is lets say a...10k crime...You'd have to work untill said debt is paid then your out.
That's what i have in mind right now.
And what the american civil war was fought over?
Also, slavery is making someone working for jack shit against his will...Upon committing a crime you accept to go to jail and therefore work your ass out of it.
Well, its either they work or they stay in jail...and that would change nothing, it would be the same as now....so i guess that it mean slavery...anyway.DrunkFace wrote:
No, it's slavery. By your logic, I could claim slaves weren't really slaves because they were working for the food and shelter people gave them. You can't force someone to work, just give them the option to.Roger Lesboules wrote:
Nope, as they are getting paid for their work...and the money they earn by doing work for the society is credited to their "Debt" toward said society.Skorpy-chan wrote:
Isn't that last one slavery?
And what the american civil war was fought over?
Also, slavery is making someone working for jack shit against his will...Upon committing a crime you accept to go to jail and therefore work your ass out of it.
Commit a crime...forfeit your right...Harsh but im pretty sure people would think a little more now dont they?
Do you not understand why we have a national debt?Dilbert_X wrote:
Except you'll owe trillions to the Saudis, the Chinese, and the unemployment rate will likely still be 10%, many of those working will be in McJobs which produce no value.The US economy will be fine in a few years, as if nothing happened.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
But that's historically been used as an excuse FOR slavery! In america, no less! Unpaid slave labour as a 'debt to society'.Roger Lesboules wrote:
Well, its either they work or they stay in jail...and that would change nothing, it would be the same as now....so i guess that it mean slavery...anyway.DrunkFace wrote:
No, it's slavery. By your logic, I could claim slaves weren't really slaves because they were working for the food and shelter people gave them. You can't force someone to work, just give them the option to.Roger Lesboules wrote:
Nope, as they are getting paid for their work...and the money they earn by doing work for the society is credited to their "Debt" toward said society.
Also, slavery is making someone working for jack shit against his will...Upon committing a crime you accept to go to jail and therefore work your ass out of it.
Commit a crime...forfeit your right...Harsh but im pretty sure people would think a little more now dont they?
Of course, but it would be better not to have one wouldn't it?JohnG@lt wrote:
Do you not understand why we have a national debt?
Or you can continue mortgaging your kids future for your standard of living now.
Fuck Israel