Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7097|Nårvei

Beduin wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Beduin wrote:


lol... FEOS is now an imam. He can open his own madrasah teaching Quran science.
Is my understanding incorrect? If it is, please enlighten us. I was somewhat surprised when I learned that aspect of aggregation...completely by accident, mind you.
No, this time it is YOU that gonna do the job. YOU prove YOUR claim.
I have the same impression as FEOS on this aka I have heard the same claim so if you please can confirm or not that would be swell ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6698|'Murka

Beduin wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Beduin wrote:


lol... FEOS is now an imam. He can open his own madrasah teaching Quran science.
Is my understanding incorrect? If it is, please enlighten us. I was somewhat surprised when I learned that aspect of aggregation...completely by accident, mind you.
No, this time it is YOU that gonna do the job. YOU prove YOUR claim.
My claim is based on what I read. In a book. Not wikipedia. Not on line. Thus not citeable here. If it's wrong, I'm sure you can easily prove it wrong, and I would be fine with that. I have no dog in that fight.

You're the one who has chosen to scoff at what I said. The burden is on you. Giddyup.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6393|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

You're the one who has chosen to scoff at what I said. The burden is on you.
No, you made the assertion, its up to you to back it up.
Fuck Israel
Beduin
Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid
+510|6037|شمال

FEOS wrote:

Beduin wrote:

FEOS wrote:


Is my understanding incorrect? If it is, please enlighten us. I was somewhat surprised when I learned that aspect of aggregation...completely by accident, mind you.
No, this time it is YOU that gonna do the job. YOU prove YOUR claim.
My claim is based on what I read. In a book. Not wikipedia. Not on line. Thus not citeable here. If it's wrong, I'm sure you can easily prove it wrong, and I would be fine with that. I have no dog in that fight.

You're the one who has chosen to scoff at what I said. The burden is on you. Giddyup.
What book? Who is the writter.
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6698|'Murka

Beduin wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Beduin wrote:


No, this time it is YOU that gonna do the job. YOU prove YOUR claim.
My claim is based on what I read. In a book. Not wikipedia. Not on line. Thus not citeable here. If it's wrong, I'm sure you can easily prove it wrong, and I would be fine with that. I have no dog in that fight.

You're the one who has chosen to scoff at what I said. The burden is on you. Giddyup.
What book? Who is the writter.
Nevermind. I found it on wikipedia as well:

Generally, longer chapters appear earlier in the Qur’an, while the shorter ones appear later. The chapter arrangement is thus not connected to the sequence of revelation.
So. Over to you. To prove wrong what I just cited.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Beduin
Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid
+510|6037|شمال

FEOS wrote:

So, if you have a very peace-filled, love everyone surah that was revealed after a shorter, hate and blood, "kill the infidel" one...guess which one takes precedence?
That was a reply to this:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

If they seek peace, then seek you peace. And trust in God for He is the One that heareth and knoweth all things. [8:61]

"And the servants of Allah . . . are those who walked on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say 'Peace'" [25:63]

"Allah is with those who restrain themselves." [16: 128]

Whoever kills another one without justifiable cause, surely he is killing all of humanity. And whoever saves the life of another one, surely he saves the lives of all of humanity. [Sura Al Ma'aidah: Ayah 32]
My question is, what makes you say it is "peace-filled, love everyone" verses that is cancelled in the quran. What is your knowledge based on?
It is not in the link you provided.

e.:notice, it is verses, not suras!

Last edited by Beduin (2009-11-11 06:39:54)

الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6393|eXtreme to the maX
Apparently the shorter ones take precedence.
Is that right?
Fuck Israel
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6698|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

Apparently the shorter ones take precedence.
Is that right?
What comes later takes precedence. In the Qu'ran, that is generally the shorter one, not the one chronologically later.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6698|'Murka

Beduin wrote:

FEOS wrote:

So, if you have a very peace-filled, love everyone surah that was revealed after a shorter, hate and blood, "kill the infidel" one...guess which one takes precedence?
That was a reply to this:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

If they seek peace, then seek you peace. And trust in God for He is the One that heareth and knoweth all things. [8:61]

"And the servants of Allah . . . are those who walked on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say 'Peace'" [25:63]

"Allah is with those who restrain themselves." [16: 128]

Whoever kills another one without justifiable cause, surely he is killing all of humanity. And whoever saves the life of another one, surely he saves the lives of all of humanity. [Sura Al Ma'aidah: Ayah 32]
My question is, what makes you say it is "peace-filled, love everyone" verses that is cancelled in the quran. What is your knowledge based on?
It is not in the link you provided.

e.:notice, it is verses, not suras!
If, for example, there were a revelation that was fairly succinct: "kill all infidels" (just an example), then later in life, a revelation came that said "non-believers should be embraced as fellow humans and given every opportunity to believe and not put to the sword, even should they choose not to believe in Islam" (again...just an example).

Per the structure of the Qu'ran, the latter would not "cancel out" the former, despite being revealed to Muhammed after the previous one. Based solely on the longest to shortest structure of the Qu'ran, rather than chronological revelation. Seems to be form over substance, tbh.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Beduin
Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid
+510|6037|شمال

FEOS wrote:

If, for example, there were a revelation that was fairly succinct: "kill all infidels" (just an example), then later in life, a revelation came that said "non-believers should be embraced as fellow humans and given every opportunity to believe and not put to the sword, even should they choose not to believe in Islam" (again...just an example).

Per the structure of the Qu'ran, the latter would not "cancel out" the former, despite being revealed to Muhammed after the previous one. Based solely on the longest to shortest structure of the Qu'ran, rather than chronological revelation. Seems to be form over substance, tbh.
5 issues that has been "updated" in the quran - few verses "cancelled" by new ones.

1. Direction of the prayers.
2. Period of time a widow have to wait before getting married again.
3. How many enemies should one muslim stand against in battles.
4. Alcohol
5. Charity matter.
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6698|'Murka

Beduin wrote:

FEOS wrote:

If, for example, there were a revelation that was fairly succinct: "kill all infidels" (just an example), then later in life, a revelation came that said "non-believers should be embraced as fellow humans and given every opportunity to believe and not put to the sword, even should they choose not to believe in Islam" (again...just an example).

Per the structure of the Qu'ran, the latter would not "cancel out" the former, despite being revealed to Muhammed after the previous one. Based solely on the longest to shortest structure of the Qu'ran, rather than chronological revelation. Seems to be form over substance, tbh.
5 issues that has been "updated" in the quran - few verses "cancelled" by new ones.

1. Direction of the prayers.
2. Period of time a widow have to wait before getting married again.
3. How many enemies should one muslim stand against in battles.
4. Alcohol
5. Charity matter.
Good to see they're addressing the key issues.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Beduin
Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid
+510|6037|شمال

FEOS wrote:

Beduin wrote:

FEOS wrote:

If, for example, there were a revelation that was fairly succinct: "kill all infidels" (just an example), then later in life, a revelation came that said "non-believers should be embraced as fellow humans and given every opportunity to believe and not put to the sword, even should they choose not to believe in Islam" (again...just an example).

Per the structure of the Qu'ran, the latter would not "cancel out" the former, despite being revealed to Muhammed after the previous one. Based solely on the longest to shortest structure of the Qu'ran, rather than chronological revelation. Seems to be form over substance, tbh.
5 issues that has been "updated" in the quran - few verses "cancelled" by new ones.

1. Direction of the prayers.
2. Period of time a widow have to wait before getting married again.
3. How many enemies should one muslim stand against in battles.
4. Alcohol
5. Charity matter.
Good to see they're addressing the key issues.
...meaning the "Peace and love" verses AND "kill all infidels" are equally valid!

If I am not mistaken, it is sura 9 verse 5 where you read "kill all infidels"?
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6938|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

Well here's the thing, your govt did decide to turn a terrorist attack into a war on islam.
Now that you're involved in a war on islam there are regular events involving islamics.
And yet you seem surprised.
Sorry, Islam started the war decades ago. We just never fought back until after 911. Now that we did fight back we are evil invaders. Nehhhhhhhh no bias there.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6938|USA

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

That you discredit fact based information is your problem not mine since most of your arguments for discredit is taken from sources of known Islamic haters ... you are such a funny man lowing ...
I coulda swore I said I used YOUR sources t odiscredit your arguments.checking, yup that is what I said. if you want to revisit it we can.
Your mind is more twisted than I originally thought ... I gave you links to facts and you discredit those very facts with the facts itself?

Amazing is the only conclusion i can come up with tbh ...
Dig it up, you' re the mod. Lets go over it again.

Last edited by lowing (2009-11-11 13:29:00)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6393|eXtreme to the maX

lowing wrote:

Sorry, Islam started the war decades ago. We just never fought back until after 911.
When was that then?
Fuck Israel
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6938|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

Sorry, Islam started the war decades ago. We just never fought back until after 911.
When was that then?
I dunno, how far back ya wanna go?, 


1982–1991
Lebanon: Thirty US and other Western hostages kidnapped in Lebanon by Hezbollah. Some were killed, some died in captivity, and some were eventually released. Terry Anderson was held for 2,454 days.
1983
April 18, Beirut, Lebanon: U.S. embassy destroyed in suicide car-bomb attack; 63 dead, including 17 Americans. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Oct. 23, Beirut, Lebanon: Shiite suicide bombers exploded truck near U.S. military barracks at Beirut airport, killing 241 marines. Minutes later a second bomb killed 58 French paratroopers in their barracks in West Beirut.
Dec. 12, Kuwait City, Kuwait: Shiite truck bombers attacked the U.S. embassy and other targets, killing 5 and injuring 80.
1984
Sept. 20, east Beirut, Lebanon: truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. embassy annex, killing 24, including 2 U.S. military.
Dec. 3, Beirut, Lebanon: Kuwait Airways Flight 221, from Kuwait to Pakistan, hijacked and diverted to Tehran. 2 Americans killed.
1985
April 12, Madrid, Spain: Bombing at restaurant frequented by U.S. soldiers, killed 18 Spaniards and injured 82.
June 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed.
Oct. 7, Mediterranean Sea: gunmen attack Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. One U.S. tourist killed. Hijacking linked to Libya.
Dec. 18, Rome, Italy, and Vienna, Austria: airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, 5 of whom were Americans. Bombing linked to Libya.
1986
April 2, Athens, Greece:A bomb exploded aboard TWA flight 840 en route from Rome to Athens, killing 4 Americans and injuring 9.
April 5, West Berlin, Germany: Libyans bombed a disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing 2 and injuring hundreds.
1988
Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Passengers included 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel. Libya formally admitted responsibility 15 years later (Aug. 2003) and offered $2.7 billion compensation to victims' families.
1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.

1996
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.
1998
Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.
2000
Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.
2001
Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: hijackers crashed 2 commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; 2 more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group blamed. (See September 11, 2001: Timeline of Terrorism.)
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6393|eXtreme to the maX
Its not particularly islam which is attacking the US, just ME terrorists.
Duhbya decided to make it a war on islam.

Maybe you can explain why the US was meddling in Lebanon for starters.
Fuck Israel
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6938|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

Its not particularly islam which is attacking the US, just ME terrorists.
Duhbya decided to make it a war on islam.

Maybe you can explain why the US was meddling in Lebanon for starters.
Uhhhhhhhhhhh no, it was ISLAMIC terrorists, and their action is motivated by Islam. your attempt to dilute who they were by saying they were merely from the ME ain't gunna cut it.

The US was there as part of a multinational peace-keeping force.
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6436|'straya
U.S. Intervention In The Middle East

"Why do people in the Middle East hate the United States," people are asking, in the wake of the events of September 11.

This partial chronology of U.S. intervention in the Middle East illustrates the lengths to which the U.S. power structure has gone to gain and maintain U.S. domination of the Middle East--a region considered key to the U.S.'s standing as an imperialist world power. This is not a complete list of the invasions, bombings, assassinations, coups and other interventions by the U.S. government, its allies, or its client states, nor does it fully document the U.S.'s economic domination and exploitation of the region's people and resources.

1918-1945:
BREAKING INTO THE MIDDLE EAST:
THE FIGHT FOR INFLUENCE & OIL

1920-28: U.S. pressures Britain, then the dominant Middle East power, into signing a "Red Line Agreement" providing that Middle Eastern oil will not be developed by any single power without the participation of the others. Standard Oil and Mobil obtain shares of the Iraq Petroleum Company.

1932-34: Oil is discovered in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, and U.S. oil companies obtain concessions.

1944: U.S. State Department memo refers to Middle Eastern oil as "a stupendous source of strategic power, and one of the greatest material prizes in world history." During U.S.-British negotiations over the control of Middle Eastern oil, President Roosevelt sketches out a map of the Middle East and tells the British Ambassador, "Persian oil is yours. We share the oil of Iraq and Kuwait. As for Saudi Arabian oil, it's ours." On August 8, 1944, the Anglo-American Petroleum Agreement is signed, splitting Middle Eastern oil between the U.S. and Britain.

Between 1948 and 1960, Western capital earns $12.8 billion in profits from the production, refining and sale of Middle Eastern oil, on fixed investments totaling $1.3 billion.

1945-1955:
REPLACING RIVALS AND WAGING WAR
ON NATIONAL LIBERATION

1946: President Harry Truman threatens to drop a "super-bomb" on the Soviet Union if it does not withdraw from Kurdestan and Azerbaijan in northern Iran.

November 1947: The U.S. helps push through a UN resolution partitioning Palestine into a Zionist state and an Arab state, giving the Zionist authorities control of 54% of the land. At that time Jewish settlers were about 1/3 of the population.

May 14, 1948: War breaks out between newly proclaimed state of Israel, and Egypt, Iraq, Jordan and Syria, who had moved troops into Palestine to oppose the partition of Palestine. Israeli attacks force some 800,000 Palestinians--two-thirds of the population--to flee into exile in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Gaza, and the West Bank. Israel seizes 77 percent of historic Palestine. The U.S. quickly recognizes Israel.

March 29, 1949: CIA backs a military coup overthrowing the elected government of Syria and establishes a military dictatorship under Colonel Za'im.

1952: U.S.-led military alliance expands into the Middle East with Turkey's admission to NATO.

1953: The CIA organizes a coup overthrowing the Mossadeq government of Iran after Mossadeq nationalizes British holdings in Iran's huge oilfields. The Shah, Mohammed Reza Pahlevi, is put on the throne, ruling as an absolute monarch for the next 25 years--torturing, killing and imprisoning his political opponents.

1955: U.S. installs powerful radar system in Turkey to spy on the Soviet Union.

1956-1958:
UPHEAVAL AND INTRIGUE IN EGYPT,
IRAQ, JORDAN, SYRIA & LEBANON

July 1956: After Egypt's nationalist leader, Gamal Abdul Nasser, receives arms from the Soviet Union, the U.S. withdraws promised funding for Aswan Dam, Egypt's main development project. A week later Nasser nationalizes the Suez Canal to fund the project. In October Britain, France and Israel invade Egypt to retake the Suez Canal. President Eisenhower threatens to use nuclear weapons if the Soviet Union intervenes on Egypt's side; and at the same time, the U.S. asserts its regional dominance by forcing Britain, France and Israel to withdraw from Egypt.

October 1956: A planned CIA coup to overthrow a left-leaning government in Syria is aborted because it was scheduled for the same day Israel, Britain and France invade Egypt.

March 9, 1957: Congress approves Eisenhower Doctrine, stating "the United States regards as vital to the national interest and world peace the preservation of the independence and integrity of the nations of the Middle East."

April 1957: After anti-government rioting breaks out in Jordan, U.S. rushes 6th fleet to the eastern Mediterranean and lands a battalion of Marines in Lebanon to "prepare for possible future intervention in Jordan." Later that year, the CIA begins making secret payments of millions a year to Jordan's King Hussein.

September 1957: In response to the Syrian government's more nationalist and pro-Soviet policies, the U.S. sends Sixth Fleet to eastern Mediterranean and rushes arms to allies Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Turkey and Saudi Arabia; meanwhile the U.S. encourages Turkey to mass 50,000 troops on Syria's northern border.

1958: The merger of Syria and Egypt into the "United Arab Republic," the overthrow of the pro-U.S. King Feisal II in Iraq by nationalist military officers, and the outbreak of anti-government/anti-U.S. rioting in Lebanon, where the CIA had helped install President Camille Caiman and keep him in power, leads the U.S. to dispatch 70 naval vessels, hundreds of aircraft and 14,000 Marines to Lebanon to preserve "stability." The U.S. threatens to use nuclear weapons if the Lebanese army resists, and to prevent an Iraqi move into the oilfields of Kuwait, and draws up secret plans for a joint invasion of Iraq with Turkey. The plan is shelved after the Soviet Union threatens to intervene.

1957-58: Kermit Roosevelt, the CIA agent in charge of the 1953 coup in Iran, plots, without success, to overthrow Egypt's Nasser. "Between July 1957 and October 1958, the Egyptian and Syrian governments and media announced the uncovering of what appear to be at least eight separate conspiracies to overthrow one or the other government, to assassinate Nasser, and/or prevent the expected merger of the two countries." (Blum, p. 93)

1960: U.S. works to covertly undermine the new government of Iraq by supporting anti-government Kurdish rebels and by attempting, unsuccessfully, to assassinate Iraq's leader, Abdul Karim Qassim, an army general who had restored relations with the Soviet Union and lifted the ban on Iraq's Communist Party.

1963: U.S. supports a coup by the Ba'ath party (soon to be headed by Saddam Hussein) to overthrow the Qassim regime, including by giving the Ba'ath names of communists to murder. "Armed with the names and whereabouts of individual communists, the national guards carried out summary executions. Communists held in detention...were dragged out of prison and shot without a hearing... [b]y the end of the rule of the Ba'ath, its terror campaign had claimed the lives of an estimated 3,000 to 5,000 communists."

1966: U.S. sells its first jet bombers to Israel, breaking with 1956 decision not to sell arms to the Zionist state.

June 1967: With U.S. weapons and support, Israeli military launches the so-called "Six Day War," seizing the remaining 23 percent of historic Palestine--the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem--along with Egypt's Sinai Peninsula and Syria's Golan Heights.

September 17, 1970: With U.S. and Israeli backing, Jordanian troops attack Palestinian guerrilla camps, while Jordan's U.S.-supplied air force drops napalm from above. U.S. deploys the aircraft carrier Independence and six destroyers off the coast of Lebanon and readies troops in Turkey to support the assault. The U.S. threatens to use nuclear weapons against the Soviet Union if it intervenes. 5000 Palestinians are killed and 20,000 wounded. This massacre comes to be known as "Black September."

1973: The U.S. rushes $2.2 billion in emergency military aid to Israel after Egypt and Syria attack to regain Golan Heights and Sinai. U.S. puts forces on alert, and moves them into the region. When the Soviet Union threatens to intervene to prevent the destruction of Egypt's 3rd Army by Israel, U.S. nuclear forces go to DEFCON III to force the Soviets to back down.

1973-1975: U.S. supports Kurdish rebels in Iraq in order to strengthen Iran and weaken the then pro-Soviet Iraqi regime. When Iran and Iraq cut a deal, the U.S. withdraws support, denies the Kurds refuge in Iran, and stands by while the Iraqi government kills many Kurdish people.

1979-84: U.S. supports paramilitary forces to undermine the government of South Yemen, which was allied with the Soviet Union.

THE FALL OF THE SHAH AND
THE SOVIET INVASION OF AFGHANISTAN

1978: As the Iranian revolution begins against the hated Shah, the U.S. continues to support him "without reservation" and urges him to act forcefully against the masses. In August 1978, some 400 Iranians are burned to death in the Rex Theater in Abadan after police chain and lock the exit doors. On September 8, 10,000 anti-Shah demonstrators are massacred at Teheran's Jaleh Square.

1979: The U.S. tries, without success, to organize a military coup to save the Shah. In January, the Shah is forced to flee and the reactionary Shi-ite Islamists led by Ayatollah Khomeini take power in February.

Summer 1979: The U.S. publicly supports the Khomeini regime's efforts to suppress the Kurdish liberation struggle and maintain Iranian domination of Kurdestan.

1979: U.S. President Jimmy Carter designates the Persian Gulf a vital U.S. interest and declares the U.S. will go to war to ensure the flow of oil.

1979: In response to Soviet military maneuvers on Iran's northern border, Carter secretly puts U.S. forces on nuclear alert and warns the Soviets they will be used if the Soviets intervene.

Summer 1979: U.S. begins arming and organizing Islamic fundamentalist "Mujahideen" in Afghanistan. National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski writes, "This aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention," drawing the Soviets into an Afghan quagmire. Over the next decade the U.S. alone passed more than $3 billion in arms and aid to the Mujahideen, with another $3 billion provided by the U.S. ally Saudi Arabia.

November 4, 1979: Islamic militants, backed by the Khomeini regime, seize the U.S. embassy in Teheran and demand the U.S. return the Shah to Iran for trial. The Embassy and 52 U.S. personnel are held for 444 days; this international embarrassment prompts new U.S. actions against Iran--including an abortive rescue attempt.

December 1979: Soviet troops invade Afghanistan--which the U.S. rulers considered a "buffer state" between the Soviet Union to the north and the strategically important states of Iran and Pakistan to the south--overthrowing the Amin government and installing a more pro-Soviet regime.

1980: U.S. begins organizing a "Rapid Deployment Force," increasing its naval presence and pre-positioning military equipment and supplies. It also steps up aid to reactionary client states such as Turkey, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. On September 12, Turkey's military seizes power and unleashes a brutal clampdown on revolutionaries and Kurds struggling for liberation in order to "stabilize" the country as a key U.S. ally.

Summer 1980: As the Carter administration tries to bully Iran into surrendering the U.S. hostages, supporters of presidential candidate Ronald Reagan cut a secret deal with the Islamic Republic: promising that the Reagan administration will allow Israel to ship arms to Iran if Iran continues to hold the hostages during the coming presidential campaign to cripple Carter's campaign for re-election. (Gary Sick)

September 22, 1980: Iraq invades Iran with tacit U.S. support, starting a bloody eight-year war. The U.S. supports both sides in the war providing arms to Iran and money, intelligence and political support to Iraq in order to prolong the war and weaken both sides, while trying to draw both countries into the U.S. orbit.

1981: U.S. holds military maneuvers off the coast of Libya to bully the Qaddafi government. When a Libyan plane fires a missile at U.S. planes penetrating Libyan airspace, two Libyan planes are shot down.

1981: The Reagan administration secretly encourages Israel and other allies, such as South Korea and Turkey, to ship hundreds of millions of U.S.-made arms to Iran despite a ban on the shipment of U.S.-made weapons.

From the fall of 1981 through the winter of 1982, forces led by the Union of Iranian Communists, Sarbederan, mount an historic resistance to the Islamic Republic; the uprising at Amol at the end of January 1982 is brutally crushed by the forces of the Islamic Republic.

1982: After receiving a "green light" from the U.S., Israel invades Lebanon to crush Palestinian and other anti-U.S. and anti-Israeli forces. Over 20,000 Lebanese and Palestinians are killed, and Israel seizes southern Lebanon, holding it until 2000.

September 14, 1982: Lebanon's pro-U.S. President-elect, Bashir al-Jumayyil, is assassinated. The following day, Israeli forces occupy West Beirut, and from 16 to 18 September, the Phalangist militia, with the support of Israel's military under now-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, move into the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps and barbarically massacre over 1,000 unarmed Palestinian men, women, and children.

1983: U.S. sends troops to Lebanon, supposedly as part of a multinational "peace-keeping" operation but in reality to protect U.S. interests, including Israel's occupation forces. U.S. troops are withdrawn after a suicide bomber destroys a U.S. Marine barracks.

1983: CIA helps murder Gen. Ahmed Dlimi, a prominent Moroccan Army commander who seeks to overthrow the pro-U.S. Moroccan monarchy.

Spring 1983: The U.S. provides the Islamic Republic of Iran with a list of Soviet agents.

1984: U.S. shoots down two Iranian jets over Persian Gulf.

1985-1986: The U.S. secretly ships weapons to Iran, including 1,000 TOW anti-tank missiles, Hawk missile parts, and Hawk radars. The weapons are exchanged for U.S. hostages in Lebanon, and in hopes of increased U.S. leverage in Iran. The secret plot collapses when it is publicly revealed on November 3, 1986, by the Lebanese magazine, Al-Shiraa. (The Chronology)

1985: U.S. attempts to assassinate Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, a Lebanese Shiite leader. 80 people are killed in the unsuccessful attempt. (Blum)

1986: When a bomb goes off in a Berlin nightclub and kills two Americans, the U.S. blames Libya's Qaddafi. U.S. bombers strike Libyan military facilities, residential areas of Tripoli and Benghazi, and Qaddafi's house, killing 101 people, including Qaddafi's adopted daughter.

1987: The U.S. Navy is dispatched to the Persian Gulf to prevent Iran from cutting off Iraq's oil shipments. During these patrols, a U.S. ship shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing all 290 onboard.

1988: The Iraqi regime launches mass poison-gas attacks on Kurds, killing thousands and bulldozing many villages. The U.S. responds by increasing its support for the Iraqi regime.

July 1988: A cease-fire ends the Iran-Iraq war with neither side victorious. Over 1 million Iranians and Iraqis are killed during the 8-year war.

1989: The last Soviet troops leave Afghanistan. The war, fueled by U.S.-Soviet rivalry, has torn Afghanistan apart, killing more than one million Afghans and forcing one-third of the population to flee into refugee camps. More than 15,000 Soviet soldiers die in the war.

July 1990: April Glaspie, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, meets with Saddam Hussein, who threatens military action against Kuwait for overproducing its oil quota, slant drilling for oil in Iraqi territory, and encroaching on Iraqi territory--seriously harming war weakened Iraq. Glaspie replies, "We have no opinion on the Arab- Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait."

August 1990: Iraq invades Kuwait. The U.S. seizes the moment to assert its hegemony in the post-Soviet world and strengthen its grip on the Persian Gulf: the U.S. condemns Iraq, rejects a diplomatic settlement, imposes sanctions, and prepares for an all-out military assault on Iraq.

January 16, 1991: After a 6-month military buildup, the U.S.-led coalition launches "Operation Desert Storm." For the next 42 days, U.S. and allied planes pound Iraq, dropping 88,000 tons of bombs, systematically targeting and largely destroying its electrical and water systems. On February 22, 1991, the U.S. coalition begins its 100-hour ground war. Heavily armed U.S. units drive deep into southern Iraq. Overall, 100,000 to 200,000 Iraqis are killed during the war.

Spring 1991: Shi'ites in the south and Kurds in the north rise up against Hussein's regime in Iraq. The U.S., after encouraging these uprisings during the war, now fears turmoil and instability in the region and refuses to support the rebels. The U.S. denies the rebels access to captured Iraqi weapons and allows Iraqi helicopters to attack them.

1991: Iraq withdraws from Kuwait and agrees to a UN-brokered cease-fire, but the U.S. and Britain insist that devastating sanctions be maintained. The U.S. declares large parts of north and south Iraq "no-fly" zones for Iraqi aircraft.

1991-present: U.S. military deployments continue after the war, with 17,000 to 24,000 U.S. troops in the Persian Gulf region at any given time. (CSM)

1992: U.S. Marines land near Mogadishu, Somalia, supposedly to ensure humanitarian relief and "restore order." But the U.S. also plans to remove the dominant warlord, Mohammed Aidid, and install a more pro-U.S. regime. In June 1983, after numerous gun battles with Aidid forces, U.S. helicopters strafe Aidid supporters, killing scores. In October, when U.S. forces attempt to kidnap two Aidid lieutenants, a fierce gunbattle breaks out. Five U.S. helicopters are shot down, 18 U.S. soldiers killed and 73 wounded, while 500 to 1000 Somalians are killed and many more injured.

March 1992: U.S. Defense Department drafts new, post-Soviet "Defense Planning Guidance" paper stating, "In the Middle East and Southwest Asia, our overall objective is to remain the predominant outside power in the region and preserve U.S. and Western access to the region's oil."

1993: U.S. brokers a "peace" agreement between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization at Oslo, Norway. The agreement strengthens Israel and U.S. domination, while leaving Palestinians a small part of their historic homeland, broken up into isolated pieces surrounded by Israel. No provisions are made for the return of the four million Palestinian refugees living outside of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.

1993: U.S. launches missile attack on Iraq, claiming self-defense against an alleged assassination attempt on former president Bush two months earlier.

1995: The U.S. imposes oil and trade sanctions against Iran, reinforcing sanctions in effect since 1979, for alleged sponsorship of 'terrorism', seeking to acquire nuclear arms and hostility to the Middle East process. (BBC, CSM)

1995: With U.S. backing, Turkey launches a major military offensive, involving some 35,000 Turkish troops, against the Kurds in northern Iraq.

1998: Congress passes the "Iraq Liberation Act," giving nearly $100 million to groups attempting to overthrow the Hussein regime.

August 1998: Claiming retaliation for attacks on U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, President Clinton sends 75 cruise missiles pounding into rural Afghanistan --supposedly targeting Osama Bin Laden. The U.S. also destroys a factory producing half of Sudan's pharmaceutical supply, claiming the factory is involved in chemical warfare. The U.S. later acknowledges there is no evidence for the chemical warfare charge.

December 16-19, 1998: The U.S. and Britain launch "Operation Desert Fox," a bombing campaign supposedly aimed at destroying Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs. For most of the next year, U.S. and British planes strike Iraq every day with missiles. (BBC)

October 1999: The U.S. Department of Defense shifts command of its forces in Central Asia from the Pacific Command to the Central Command, underlining the heightened importance of the region, which includes vast oil reserves in and around the Caspian Sea.

January 2001: Tenth anniversary of the U.S. war on Iraq: sanctions are still in place and the UN estimates that 4,500 children are dying per month from disease and malnutrition as a result. The U.S. planes, which have flown over 280,000 sorties in Iraq over the past decade, continue to attack from the air. In the past two years, over 300 Iraqis have been killed in these bombings.

October 2001: U.S. begins bombing Afghanistan, as the first act of war in "Operation Enduring Freedom"--the U.S. "war against global terrorism."
Could this possibly have something to do with the rise of Islamic terrorism? NOTE: This source states each event with some bias but it lists all its sources and seems legit.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6938|USA
These countries govts. are rich because the US invented the need, and means of using and extracting the oil. We do not steel it, we buy it.

If you want to bitch about oil, and the worlds dependency of it, I suggest you refrain from using any of it.


By the way, I admit i did not read all of that list, if there were attacks by the US purposely targeting innocent women and children I will thank you in advance for pointing them out.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6393|eXtreme to the maX

lowing wrote:

Uhhhhhhhhhhh no, it was ISLAMIC terrorists, and their action is motivated by Islam.
Says who?
Maybe they were pissed off with the US bullying them, killing them and supplying weapons to their enemies first - and islamics second.
North Koreans, Vietnamese, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Mexicans and Cubans weren't moslems BTW.
Fuck Israel
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6938|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

Uhhhhhhhhhhh no, it was ISLAMIC terrorists, and their action is motivated by Islam.
Says who?
Maybe they were pissed off with the US bullying them, killing them and supplying weapons to their enemies first - and islamics second.
North Koreans, Vietnamese, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Mexicans and Cubans weren't moslems BTW.
Says who? Well, Islam itself. how do I know? The ones comitting the attacks reference it while doing so. The US has tried to help the ME, like I said we BUY their oil we do not steel it. We have pumped billions into the ME.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6393|eXtreme to the maX

lowing wrote:

The ones comitting the attacks reference it while doing so.
As does anyone who is about to die, or before they go into combat. Christians are just the same.
The US has tried to help the ME
When exactly?
We have pumped billions into the ME
No, you've bought their product.
Are you saying you've pumped billions into China in the spirit of peace and love for all things communist?
Fuck Israel
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6938|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

The ones comitting the attacks reference it while doing so.
As does anyone who is about to die, or before they go into combat. Christians are just the same.
The US has tried to help the ME
When exactly?
We have pumped billions into the ME
No, you've bought their product.
Are you saying you've pumped billions into China in the spirit of peace and love for all things communist?
Christians pray for their safety, not so much with a muslim wearing a bomb vest



Pick any decade, we developed their product for them then bought it at a market value THEY set.
Beduin
Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid
+510|6037|شمال

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

U.S. Intervention In The Middle East

...
That was a long list!

Spring 1991: Shi'ites in the south and Kurds in the north rise up against Hussein's regime in Iraq. The U.S., after encouraging these uprisings during the war, now fears turmoil and instability in the region and refuses to support the rebels. The U.S. denies the rebels access to captured Iraqi weapons and allows Iraqi helicopters to attack them.
I clearly remember this one
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic

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