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2009-10-21 12:40:41
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6787|so randum

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:


Uh, no. There is no net loss or net gain in a system where everyone pays for their own care.
Sure their is, there's always someone somewhere who can't afford their care. Example being, a shelfstacker in tesco who develops something that requires brain surgery. Pretty sure his salary couldn't stretch to that, hence someone somewhere has to pick up the bill.
What exactly do you not understand about everyone paying for their own care?
What i meant what that someone somewhere, can't afford their own healthcare through no fault of there own. And yes i know the US system currently provides for that, but it's clearly in need of a reform.

I'm not saying the NHS is mana from heaven btw.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2009-10-21 12:41:30
rammunition
Fully Loaded
+143|6149

Red Forman wrote:

rammunition wrote:

In the UK the government don't make these decision. Doctors make the decisions. The Government fund the NHS through the tax system.
bullshit.  yall have panels that answer to the govt thru what they spend.
Do type proper English and in proper spelling/grammar so one can communicate with your concerns.
2009-10-21 12:42:43
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,982|6919|949

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:


You realize that a) insurance companies make a profit and b) people are not forced to by insurance?
That's irrelevant to your original question and his response.  Or maybe you are talking about a hypothetical system that would never exist (which is why Ted qualified his statement with "any system, anywhere in the world" aka not hypothetical).
"In whatever system you employ, anywhere in the world" does not mean "In any employed system, anywhere in the world". It means any system.

I told you to pay attention to what people say.
Yes, any made up system.  Reality, learn to live in it
2009-10-21 12:42:48
Red Forman
Banned
+402|5687

rammunition wrote:

Red Forman wrote:

rammunition wrote:

In the UK the government don't make these decision. Doctors make the decisions. The Government fund the NHS through the tax system.
bullshit.  yall have panels that answer to the govt thru what they spend.
Do type proper English and in proper spelling/grammar so one can communicate with your concerns.
why?  if you cant read it ignore it then.
2009-10-21 12:43:16
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6787|so randum

rammunition wrote:

Red Forman wrote:

rammunition wrote:

In the UK the government don't make these decision. Doctors make the decisions. The Government fund the NHS through the tax system.
bullshit.  yall have panels that answer to the govt thru what they spend.
Do type proper English and with proper spelling and grammar so one can communicate with your concerns.
Fix'd

and even communicate with your concerns doesn't make much sense.

Last edited by FatherTed (2009-10-21 12:43:26)

Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2009-10-21 12:44:13
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6994|67.222.138.85

rammunition wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

People have a right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. That means that no one else can infringe upon those rights, including the government, unless you infringe on another's rights. You have a right to not be murdered - you don't have a right to not get cancer, and you certainly don't have the right to infringe on someone else's property just because you got a shitty lot in life.

So you're okay with the government being able to take away your property at will?
That doesn't answer my question tbh.

On your question, it depends. Factors such as debt, criminal activity etc. should be taken into account.
I answered your question exactly. There are three rights. The right to life is one of them - the right to artificially prolonged life is not. By no means can you infringe on the other rights to satisfy a privilege.

FatherTed wrote:

What i meant what that someone somewhere, can't afford their own healthcare through no fault of there own. And yes i know the US system currently provides for that, but it's clearly in need of a reform.
I still don't see what is so hard to understand about not getting something you can't afford.
2009-10-21 12:45:06
rammunition
Fully Loaded
+143|6149

FatherTed wrote:

rammunition wrote:

Red Forman wrote:

bullshit.  yall have panels that answer to the govt thru what they spend.
Do type proper English and with proper spelling and grammar so one can communicate with your concerns.
Fixed

And even communicate with your concerns doesn't make much sense.
Fixed

Last edited by rammunition (2009-10-21 12:45:19)

2009-10-21 12:47:30
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6994|67.222.138.85

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Yes, any made up system.  Reality, learn to live in it
Yeah, a system where people make and spend their own money, fucking ridiculous.
2009-10-21 12:47:50
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6994|67.222.138.85
chill kids
2009-10-21 12:51:03
rammunition
Fully Loaded
+143|6149

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

I answered your question exactly. There are three rights. The right to life is one of them - the right to artificially prolonged life is not. By no means can you infringe on the other rights to satisfy a privilege.
So if someone gets hit by a car they should be left to die, even though its not his/her fault?
2009-10-21 12:52:12
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6829|Texas - Bigger than France

rammunition wrote:

In the UK the government don't make these decision. Doctors make the decisions. The Government fund the NHS through the tax system.
Yeah, that's exactly why I know someone who flew over to Houston from Liverpool to have cancer surgery - because the UK doctors determined the cancer surgery was elective, and were "going thru the system to get permission" should "only be about a year and half to find out".

Cancer surgery...elective.  Even the second opinion.  Explain that...

Like his balls should just fall off or something.

You might ask...why did he fly to the states then?

Well, because the cost of his "non-elective" surgery was LOWER then electing to do so in the UK.  (He flys free).  Plus I would think after that, you'd think the doctors sucked or something.
2009-10-21 12:53:13
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6787|so randum

rammunition wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

I answered your question exactly. There are three rights. The right to life is one of them - the right to artificially prolonged life is not. By no means can you infringe on the other rights to satisfy a privilege.
So if someone gets hit by a car they should be left to die, even though its not his/her fault?
That's not what he meant.

Artificially prolonging a life means pushing the boundaries past when naturally you should die. Being hit by a car is not a natural cause of death. Unless you consider 1.2ton of Volkswagen engineering natural.

of course, you could keep on picking at individual words trying to make a point out of nothing.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2009-10-21 12:53:27
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6994|67.222.138.85
A community of whatever size can choose to pool money for emergency services - fire, police, emergency medical services.

National law requiring taxation for anything but national defense is absurd.
2009-10-21 12:54:08
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6829|Texas - Bigger than France

rammunition wrote:

Red Forman wrote:

rammunition wrote:

In the UK the government don't make these decision. Doctors make the decisions. The Government fund the NHS through the tax system.
bullshit.  yall have panels that answer to the govt thru what they spend.
Do type proper English and in proper spelling/grammar so one can communicate with your concerns.
Address the panel issue please.
2009-10-21 12:59:46
rammunition
Fully Loaded
+143|6149

Pug wrote:

rammunition wrote:

Red Forman wrote:


bullshit.  yall have panels that answer to the govt thru what they spend.
Do type proper English and in proper spelling/grammar so one can communicate with your concerns.
Address the panel issue please.
Managers at the hospital in question, not politicians.
2009-10-21 13:03:29
Red Forman
Banned
+402|5687

rammunition wrote:

Pug wrote:

rammunition wrote:


Do type proper English and in proper spelling/grammar so one can communicate with your concerns.
Address the panel issue please.
Managers at the hospital in question, not politicians.
who do you think the managers answer to?  the person writing the check.  follow the money, sir.
2009-10-21 13:10:05
rammunition
Fully Loaded
+143|6149

Red Forman wrote:

rammunition wrote:

Pug wrote:


Address the panel issue please.
Managers at the hospital in question, not politicians.
who do you think the managers answer to?  the person writing the check.  follow the money, sir.
Who knows, You are making assumptions.

They must take into account waiting times, their budget, do they have the staff for the operation etc.
2009-10-21 13:11:32
Red Forman
Banned
+402|5687

rammunition wrote:

Red Forman wrote:

rammunition wrote:


Managers at the hospital in question, not politicians.
who do you think the managers answer to?  the person writing the check.  follow the money, sir.
Who knows, You are making assumptions.

They must take into account waiting times, their budget, do they have the staff for the operation etc.
how am i making assumptions?  if not the govt, then where does the money come from?
2009-10-21 13:14:08
rammunition
Fully Loaded
+143|6149

Red Forman wrote:

rammunition wrote:

Red Forman wrote:


who do you think the managers answer to?  the person writing the check.  follow the money, sir.
Who knows, You are making assumptions.

They must take into account waiting times, their budget, do they have the staff for the operation etc.
how am i making assumptions?  if not the govt, then where does the money come from?
The tax payer to be specific.
2009-10-21 13:14:59
Red Forman
Banned
+402|5687
sigh
2009-10-21 13:17:35
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6787|so randum

Red Forman wrote:

sigh
hes like a very very very left wing lowing
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2009-10-21 13:24:36
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6829|Texas - Bigger than France

rammunition wrote:

Red Forman wrote:

rammunition wrote:


Who knows, You are making assumptions.

They must take into account waiting times, their budget, do they have the staff for the operation etc.
how am i making assumptions?  if not the govt, then where does the money come from?
The tax payer to be specific.
Ahh, I get it.

Here's your logic:

You didn't get AIDS from that hooker.  Some dude from Africa gave you AIDS.


Who has control over the tax paid to the government?
2009-10-21 13:26:11
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6983|NJ

Red Forman wrote:

rammunition wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:


What exactly do you not understand about everyone paying for their own care?
decent healthcare should always be a right and never a privilege
meh...ill pay for better cancer survival rates kthx
hahaha you've obviously never delt with insurance companies.. They'd drop you like a rock, find out that you're great great grandfather had it and say it's a pre-existing condition... They're job isn't to provide you care, there job is to make money PERIOD>.
2009-10-21 13:28:33
Red Forman
Banned
+402|5687

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Red Forman wrote:

rammunition wrote:


decent healthcare should always be a right and never a privilege
meh...ill pay for better cancer survival rates kthx
hahaha you've obviously never delt with insurance companies.. They'd drop you like a rock, find out that you're great great grandfather had it and say it's a pre-existing condition... They're job isn't to provide you care, there job is to make money PERIOD>.
so why do we have the best cancer survival rates?  your cynical words are trumped by actual results.


(my mom has cancer.  dont tell me i have never dealt with insurance companies)
2009-10-21 13:30:01
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,982|6919|949

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Yes, any made up system.  Reality, learn to live in it
Yeah, a system where people make and spend their own money, fucking ridiculous.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

What i meant what that someone somewhere, can't afford their own healthcare through no fault of there own. And yes i know the US system currently provides for that, but it's clearly in need of a reform.
I still don't see what is so hard to understand about not getting something you can't afford.
Not many people can afford operations and other surgery.  That's why we get insurance - because most people don't have $20k sitting around in case they need an operation.

Do you even understand the concept of insurance?  Either you are playing a fool or you are one.  I don't think it's the latter.

 

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